1970 darkback - 1969 special order delivered to late - or what??

Discussion in 'Vintage Les Pauls' started by captain zero, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. captain zero

    captain zero Junior Member

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    Hi everybody,
    On German Ebay, someone sells a strange kind of Les Laul Goldtop:
    serial number indicates a production date between 1970-1972, the serial number is stamped in (which is ok for that kind of a serial number), but most of the rest is like a 1968/1969 Les Paul - one piece body, one piece neck, small headstock, no volute; the seller maintains that the pot codes indicate "early 69", that the T-top Pickups (which were not used in 1968/69-Les Pauls, right?) were not built in later.
    He reasons, that the guitar might be a special order, one of a kind.
    Is that possible?

    here is the link:

    http://www.ebay.de/itm/Gibson-LP-Go...039&pid=100015&prg=1006&rk=1&sd=221218054497&
     
  2. Thermionik

    Thermionik Not Fade Away Premium Member

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  3. captain zero

    captain zero Junior Member

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    oops, sorry, I don´t know what went wrong. The link should work now, at least it did when I tried it out.
     
  4. pmonk

    pmonk Senior Member

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    Weird, first time I clicked the link it worked but was too busy looking at all the Heritage Elites instead of the one you were talking about?
     
  5. captain zero

    captain zero Junior Member

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  6. tag2

    tag2 Senior Member

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    The control cavity looks like 69 routing. Solder joints don't look original. A shot of the the neck tenon would be helpful to see if it ever had P-90s.

    Based on just what I see, I have a hard time believing it came from the factory like that. More likely a refinished and humbucker routed 69 GT. But, anything is possible from Gibson.

    Nice guitar!
     
  7. captain zero

    captain zero Junior Member

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    the solder joints would not deter me. for a 69 it is very lightweight (3,95 Kg= 8 pounds 12 oz), the neck is wide (44mm=1,72 inch) the seller swears that there was no refinish. How do you discern whether there were P 90 installed or not?
     
  8. tag2

    tag2 Senior Member

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    There would be two screw holes in the neck tenon. I couldn't find a picture, but maybe somebody else will.
     
  9. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    definitely not a '69...

    possibly a '70 or '71 with humbuckers...you could order one that way back then and I know somebody who has a '71 with factory Humbuckers...

    I think this one isn't one of them...looks like it has been done over at some point in time...and also lacks the thicker binding in cutaway.


    Looks like a great player tho'
     
  10. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    there is a tenon shot but like the rest of the pics doesn't really show much other than a transitional tenon.

    If I'm seriously interested in buying I always look for properly detailed photos in order to verify appointments.Seller has lots of pics but I'm not seeing much real detail.
     
  11. 69 Goldtop

    69 Goldtop Senior Member

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    Back refinished
     
  12. captain zero

    captain zero Junior Member

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    The guitar of Your friend: was that one with a one piece neck/one piece body? I know there were some made like that in 1971-72, but were these not made with wraparound tailpiece and p 90s with gibson decal?
    And the lacking thick binding: what would that mean? wasn´t the thick binding used in all Les Pauls after 1968 - until the birth of the reissues?

    Anyway: thank You - and the others, too - for Your helpful feedback. I´m asking lots of questions to the seller....and im learning a lot about Les Paul specifications...
    :thumb:
     
  13. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    I think the 72 54 reissues with the Gibson logo on the p90covers had thin binding, one pc bodies ( not pancake) and one pc necks.
     
  14. Lousyatit

    Lousyatit Senior Member

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    I could be wrong, but my money is on it being a refin.
     
  15. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    three piece neck...three piece top
     
  16. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    yup...this is quite possibly what this one is...albet redone over as many have suggested.
     
  17. captain zero

    captain zero Junior Member

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    Here are two pics. what do they tell You?
     

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  18. captain zero

    captain zero Junior Member

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  19. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    That's the one I was thinking about....although, I think they have the year wrong. I think those were made in 72 but maybe they were spread over a few years. Those were pretty nice guitars and the closest to the original 50s design after 69 for really a decade as the neck pitch was correct, had the correct one pc body and neck, thin headstock I think they had 2 pc tops but I could be wrong (multi pc tops more common than 2 pc in the 50/ anyway)....really the only thing really missing was a long neck tenon instead of the transitional tenon.

    Some think the transitional tenon is just as good...even some of the Burst owners like the slightly shorter tenon in the late 60 bursts over the full one (though I personally doubt it makes much difference).

    IMHO, these are not much different than the 69s and in some ways have an advantage. If these had been made then, they would be a 69 with "68 features".
     
  20. Jumping@shadows

    Jumping@shadows V.I.P. Member

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    Inlays look to be MOP with black MIJ style filler and not late '60s/'70s Gibby stuff plus the back has been refin'd as evidenced by the visible pores in the Mahogany..
     

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