1950s Bumblebees PIO or mylar?

Discussion in 'The Custom Shop' started by smartfuse, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. smartfuse

    smartfuse Member

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  2. tazzboy

    tazzboy V.I.P. Member

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    Contact either Jonesy, Martin Six String or Tundra Tone as they can get some caps on less expensive side.
     
  3. andreww

    andreww Senior Member

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    Not sure if they are PIO or not, but I'm wondering why there is solder at the base of the cap? I'm assuming these were cut of some old circuit board and the wires were extended for use in a guitar?
     
  4. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    They look like Mylar, although its a bit touch to see since new leads have been put on.
     
  5. smartfuse

    smartfuse Member

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    The description says that the leads have been extended. Is there any way to tell for sure? Also, weren't mylar also used in 1959 Les Pauls?
     
  6. smartfuse

    smartfuse Member

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  7. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    Yes, Mylar was used as was PIO. Just depended what was in the bin at the time. Remember, these caps were never built for the purpose of use in the guitars. They were for amps.

    Anyways - No real way to tell without having the cap in hand. By soldering on new leads, there's going to be a solder blob on both sides of the cap, so from the pix, I can't tell for absolutely certainty, but I'm leaning on the side of Mylar from what I can see.

    I'm curious how far these are out of spec?
     
  8. smartfuse

    smartfuse Member

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    These are 1957-1959 so this was before mylar? I'm getting these on Thursday so let me meter them when I get them.

     
  9. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    Not necessarily...
     
  10. smartfuse

    smartfuse Member

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    Tonally, is there any difference between Mylar and PIO? My guitar tech knows the seller and he says that these are actual PIOs.
     
  11. JMV

    JMV Senior Member

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    If you can hear a difference between PIO and mylar, you're a better man than I.
     
  12. smartfuse

    smartfuse Member

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    Also, are the stock switch and jack on my 2012 Gibson Les Paul Jr Special Switchcraft? I know the pots are CTS but the tolerance is horrible. I'm replacing the pickups with Dominger Custom '58s, replacing the caps with vintage PIO Bumblebees, and replacing the pots for 550K matched CTS. If the switch an jack is already Switchcraft then I'm going to leave them as is. If not, I want to change them to Switchcraft.
     
  13. Indyclone

    Indyclone Senior Member

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  14. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    Maybe, maybe not. Definitely can't tell from the pix.
     
  15. Dougie

    Dougie Senior Member

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    They are mylar. The seller has extended the leads right up against the body so you can't really tell but there is about 1/8" oil seal on one end of a PIO that is missing off both ends of those.

    They still sound good, and if there is a difference in the two only a bat would be able to hear it.

    that is a LOT of money to pay for mylar bees, I got a pair like that for $20. The seller has put plenty of eye candy on them and I'm sure he will sell a ton of them at that price because they "look the part" better than some of the more un-adorned caps on auction. More corksniffery.

    Not saying the seller is dishonest, but Q: What seller in their right mind blobs solder all over the oil seal on a cap that routinely trades in the $100 range? A: One who don't want you to know there really isn't one inside all that solder.

    The "2" means they are Sprague and that is period correct for those.
     
  16. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    Good grief!

    I've restored more vintage Bee's that probably anyone on this forum. You simply cannot tell from the pix for sure if they are Mylar, although I suspect they are. Had they not been restored, it would be a pretty easy observation.

    Do they "look the part"? Not really. The sleeving is completely wrong, although the seller did a decent job soldering the new leads on.

    As far as the solder blob on the filler tube (which is wrong in itself - it's NOT a filler tube), I personally have New Old Stock 50's Bee's that are soldered exactly that way. You can barely see the tube.

    False information does no one any good.

    By the way - Find me .022/400V 20% tolerance Bee's that still read in-spec for $20.00 and I'll buy ALL OF THEM.
     
  17. smartfuse

    smartfuse Member

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    Perhaps I should unsolder the leads to check for the filler tube? Seller said he doesn't know for sure but he says there's a good chance that these are PIOs.
     
  18. smartfuse

    smartfuse Member

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    Received the capacitors and they are in front of me. Should I unsolder the leads and also meter them?
     
  19. Dougie

    Dougie Senior Member

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    Meter them and just play them. If they are mylar unsoldering won't hurt them if they are PIO and you damage one you will be one unhappy camper.
     
  20. JMV

    JMV Senior Member

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    Just meter them and install them. You already have the caps...are you going to pass on installing them if you find they're not PIO?

    Let your ears decide if they're good. Gibson used both PIO and mylar caps. Why worry about it?
     
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