`13 Historic vs vintage

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by MiAa, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    :hmm:..........not sure about PRS, for me (after owning several higher end models) I always thought they were uninspiring Guitars.............they look like a really nice, well made Coffee Table. I agree, zero Mojo. :thumb:

    Hey Mikkel, how is that Swimming Pool going? I'll never forgot that photo of who in the Pool! :laugh2: :D

    Cheers, Rudi
     
  2. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    I don't think so, I think the higher end Guitars would be made by the more experienced / higher skilled builders.

    The analogy re skill back in the '50's vs. skill now is probably not that straight forward. Look at a Stratovarius Violin. I think there are things they do better now & there are things they did better then but in actual fact I am only really guessing as I did not work at Gibson then or now.

    I can only really comment on what I have seen first hand; i.e. all the Historics I own or have owned vs. several Vintage Guitars I have handled (albeit not that many Vintage). :)

    :cheers:
     
  3. THDNUT

    THDNUT Senior Member

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    A local dealer I know told me that he has personally bought and sold more than 30 to 35 late '50s bursts and gold tops between '74 and about '95. He said about 8 were stellar, 20 were ok and the rest were tone turds. I trust his judgement. I think Gibson is building more consistent guitars today. :dude:
     
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  4. Red Baron

    Red Baron Senior Member

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    I've heard similar from a friend who sold quite a few bursts in the UK - he also said the best they ever had was one they sold to Mark Knopfler.

    Vintage guitars can be great, there's no denying it but one only needs to look at how many star guitarists (that once played vintage guitars), are now playing new guitars... and I doubt many would claim they are inferior guitars.
     
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  5. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    How many of those "stars" are playing stock "new" guitars? Joe B, Ed King and a couple others have HM historics and have them so they can leave the expensive stuff at home when needed. Then you have McCreaty and Billy Squire who pretty much only play vintage as does Joe.

    Besides you can only take such analogies so far. Plenty of great guitar players who don't like LPs or other classic models (ie Vai, Moorse, Satch, etc). So taste or guitars is as always subjective.
     
  6. Rodmac

    Rodmac Senior Member

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    The Jazz boxes were Gibsons forte back then. I have seen actual '59s with very average fit and finish, particularly in the fitting of the fingerboard inlays. I have also heard a number of originals and they varied tone wise greatly. Some sounded angelic others harsh. They weren't all Holy Grails as also applies to old PAFs. Tom Whitrock has confirmed this re the old PAFs...... some sounding great, most sounding not so.

    With the Historics etc you are at least getting good consistent guitars at an affordable price, I wouldn't want to pay $250,000 for something that sounded average. Can't swap out the pups in that baby.

    I choose to play a great sounding / feeling Historic and put her through an Original Marshall '68 JMP or my '66 JTM-45, '59 Tweed Vibrolux , '57 Tweed Tremolux etc. That being put your money into a kick ass Vintage Amp / Tubes.
     
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  7. 7gtop

    7gtop Premium Member

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    th!s ^^ in spades .

    .... as I've had the pleasure to play both original and re-issue fiddles .

    most of the magic lies in the fingers first ,
    amps and speakers a very close second .

    ** granted , the newbies don't feel the same as the oldies ,
    as the remainder of that classic formula matters less when I'm
    "on" , and plugged into amp builds of that golden era .
     
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  8. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    I have played exactly one bad 50s Gibson. I currently own 3, have played a bunch of others and all but that one have been better than most historics for what i am looking for (resonance, broad tone, etc). Could be the more mature wood, thinner lacquer etc, microphic qualities from the pickups. I have played great Norlins also. A great guitar can come from any era but if your goal is a vintage feel and sound, the 50s guitars are much more commonly great. As for them being great guitars in general they all played very well, sounded awesome. I personally like the frequencey range of the older pickups and electronics and the slightly microphonic attributes of the pickups. Most historics still sound like more modern instruments to me. Not a bad thing, a different thing. But I don't think they are better, and I have played a few dog historics. (Also played and owned some really good ones).
     
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  9. MiniB

    MiniB Senior Member

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    Most vintage electrics I've played just generally sound 'woodier', like you're actually hearing/feeling more of the guitars themselves, and in modern ones it's more of a pickup platform in comparison. Albeit, not a huge difference in some nicer modern guitars...and maybe the modern ones will eventually get there with more age/playing.

    I don't know if anyone has ever tried it, but if you took, say, a nice vintage 57-58 Les Paul with original PAF's, and a nice modern/Historic one with BB/Custom buckers (or even boutique PUs)...switched pickups...I have a feeling that the older guitar would still sound better.

    I remember getting to gig with a friend's 1954 hardtail and 1965 Strat...both all original, and I found it really difficult to play or listen to modern-make ones after. Those things just sung like I never could get out of vintage reissues or the like. Even the bridge pickups were warm and fat.
     
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  10. Red Baron

    Red Baron Senior Member

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    I just meant modern in general, from modded to custom built. Joe Walsh for example.
     
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  11. LenPaul

    LenPaul Premium Member

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    I can't speak for burst's, it's been 30 years since I had the pleasure of playing a couple of them & historics weren't around then to make a comparison.

    I have owned a couple of historic LP Juniors though & after getting the real deal I can
    confidently say that there is a big difference, the vintage guitar, even being a barely played closet queen, has something the others didn't.

    Whether it's old wood or construction or P/U's, or my imagination,
    I just knew when I compared them,,, they don't make em the way they used to.
     
  12. abracadaben

    abracadaben Senior Member

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    seems that they were not all hand made...

    "All jobs in the Custom Shop are highly specialized and require the expertise of staffers such as Richard Ickes. The dean of the wood shop with 36 years of service, Ickes came to Nashville with the company when it moved from Kalamazoo, Michigan, in 1985. “They had these same machines way back in the 1930s, and I learned on them,” said Ickes. “They were originally steam powered, but were converted to electricity before I came on in 1973. It takes a while to get the hang of them, but it comes. You learn how to change the fixtures that get fitted in place on the table of the machine. And you make all the adjustments by hand to get the correct radiuses and curves and thicknesses of the tops, and then guide the carving.”"
     
  13. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    "adjustments by hand to get the correct radiuses and curves and thicknesses of the tops, and then guide the carving.”"
    This is an important part. Another thing not mentioned here is that the Nashville plant could not replicate the carves that Kalamzoo did because of the machines used there and this continued for a while until they started introducing deeper carves in the early 80s mainly on small run prehistorics. Not sure what they use now.
     
  14. blackie2

    blackie2 Senior Member

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    Just remember that all the guitar sounds that made Les Pauls an icon of rock in the 60's were played on guitars that weren't even ten years old. So I'm not buying the age mojo hype.
     
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  15. jlb32

    jlb32 Senior Member

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    IMO most of those guys playing the vintage original Les Pauls back in the day though can pick up a new Les Paul and make it sound so close to a original you would never be able to tell the difference if blindfolded.
     
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  16. FUS44

    FUS44 Senior Member

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    Go over the vintage section, find the doug and pat thread about Marshall 18 watt new vs. vintage.

    Listen to the clip and tell me that the 95 ES-335 they use doesn't sound better than the "grailish" 58 gold top they rave about.

    New guitars acquit themselves better than aging guitar dealers want to admit.
     
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  17. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    I like the 58 better. The 335 has a more compressed sound and less sustain and a brighter tone. 58 has fuller broader tone.
     
  18. abracadaben

    abracadaben Senior Member

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    I would agree that we probably make better guitars today in some instances.
    Hey just check Gary Moore, I mean... whatever Historic, standard or burst, his tone is just epic.
    Guys like Gibbons and Mardsen even recognized that the reissue are very very close to the original. And they have been playing both for longer than any of us LOL. So Id think that newer guitars can be as close as possible to vintage.

    BTW whatever we can say about Gibson and blabla, they are one of very rare companies that make replicas of such high standard lop.
     
  19. Bobby Mahogany

    Bobby Mahogany Senior Member

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    Bingo!
    If Gibson is really interested in reproducing the vintage guitars with their Historic models, they have to convert the machines back to steam!
    Who would have thought a little vapor could make all the difference!

    Problem/debate solved.
    You're welcome.
    :D
     
  20. abracadaben

    abracadaben Senior Member

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    ahahah. u right. its all about Vape man...
     

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