`13 Historic vs vintage

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by MiAa, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. Red Baron

    Red Baron Senior Member

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    2013 Historics vs vintage are definitely different, no question... but either being 'better' is purely subjective and it could go either way.
     
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  2. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    If you keep your eyes open there ar good players grad vintage for not much more than expensive historics (seen 7-8k for a conversion with issues and a problem p90 gold top). Probably make great players.

     
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  3. MiniB

    MiniB Senior Member

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    Like I said, I'd consider it...but then something I'd be interested in like a '64 ES-335, even a player will still keep getting up there. Some sort of restoration could be a real cool ....and even though I'm not a collector I'd love to do a project like restoring/converting a beat-up '54 LP or something. That kind of thing I'd rather do than just buying one. Otherwise, I'd love the process of at least doing some choosing on a HM.

    I also wonder if HM's do ES-335s...like if I wanted to take a Historic like mine, have the neck seated a bit deeper, take the shoulders down a tiny but, and then put the block inlays in it like a '62. Something like that would also be a dream project/customization.
     
  4. Slick Six

    Slick Six Senior Member

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    How would a vintage guitar compare to a vintage guitar? You could just as easily ask this question, since they all played and sounded different, even more random variation than with today's LP's. Top and neck carves varied too. Some were great, some were not. Other than citing the obvious specs like nitro and hide glue, just too hard to define this as a category.
     
  5. FennRx

    FennRx Senior Member

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    no way, man.

    Vintage Les Pauls were hand-crafted by true luthiers and artisans. Each instrument was infused with the skill and lifeblood of the men who made it- resulting in a superior appearance and sound. Each PAF was wound by hand with wire blessed by Seth Lover himself and sanctified by Ted McCarty.

    No mass-produced Historic will ever come close to the sound of a real Burst Les Paul.




    :laugh2::laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
     
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  6. Red Baron

    Red Baron Senior Member

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    Yeah I knew about Seth's holy water - he pee'd on the pickups to bless them and then Ted would perform an exorcism as they rolled off the assembly line... that's whats missing in modern-day PAF clones ;)

    No seriously, the true artisans at Gibson (back in the 50's) were put to work on the hollow body guitars and mandolins. The workmanship on solid body guitars was no better then than it is now... in fact it was probably worse.
     
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  7. shtdaprdtr

    shtdaprdtr Senior Member

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    tone is subjective, feel is preference, some vintage guitars suck, some new ones are amazing.....NOONE WILL EVER BE HAPPY AS THERE IS NO DEFINITIVE VINTAGE BURST OR NEW REISSUE!!!!!
     
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  8. Bobby Mahogany

    Bobby Mahogany Senior Member

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    I have this thing about guitars.
    When one speaks to you, you should listen.
    Go back and buy the one that spoke to you.
     
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  9. roeg

    roeg Senior Member

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    thats how it works.We are lucky today to have such fine Lespauls to try,until you find the one that speaks.A golden age that will pass,as they always do.:hmm:
     
  10. MiAa

    MiAa Senior Member

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    Hey, and thanks a lot for the replies here guys! Appreciate it!

    I know, of course, that a `13 isn`t the same thing as a vintage one. I guess I was a bit unclear, I was more thinking of how a `13 would compare to vintage one when it was new...

    I also love when the nitro shrinks and the stuff that only can happen to an old guitar, my `68 ES 335 and `65 Guild SF IV along with the `68 tele are my three favourite guitars! It`s especially the neck finish that I love about old guitars, I`ve yet to try a new one that feels the same. Here`s the 335 ;)

    [​IMG]

    I really wish that Gibson could do a more old-school nitro finish, without all the anti-checking stuff.

    Anyway, I know that I probably should go for the R7, but it`s something with old guitars that just attracts me I guess. The hunt continues ;)

    thanks
     
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  11. roscoenyc

    roscoenyc Senior Member

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    I went so far as to have them re-created on my signature model Stonetree T-style guitars, fat headstock and all.

    Featured Guitar
     
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  12. abracadaben

    abracadaben Senior Member

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    mmmm there were still like what 1700 LP standard produced in 59? That's a pretty big production for that time. Not counting all the other models they were producing at that time either.
    On the other hand, you'd expect that an additional 50 years of knowledge in producing guitars would lead to a product even better...

    reminds me a chef I met in a restaurant, I was telling him his food was great and he was a real good chef. He answered "well you know the base products I buy are top notch, makes the work easier. Its half the job" He is a real good chef.

    So its also about the wood and components they sourced at that time I guess. Not only the craftman/knowledge etc... half and half.
    I think we are underrating the people who work at the custom shop today. I would not assume that they are lesser than the luthiers from 50 years ago. Im pretty sure a bunch of them would kick Gib's 50s luthiers ass anytime.
     
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  13. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    :hmm:...........with all due respect to those who worked in the '50's & those working now............but most of them are not Luthiers.

    They are trained / skilled process workers. There is a huge difference. :)

    I am sure there are Luthiers at Gibson the bulk of them are not.

    Gibson of old used their highly skilled labor / Luthiers to make Jazz Boxes, not solid bodies.

    By comparing the skilled workers at Gibson today, to a Luthier (especially the really good ones) you are downgrading a Luthier's skill set.

    Having been lucky enough to work closely with several highly skilled Luthiers over the last ~ 7 years, there is without a doubt a big difference. :)

    My 2c FWIW.

    :cheers:
     
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  14. FennRx

    FennRx Senior Member

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    and here i thought i didn't have to use purple in the Historic section. ;)

    and 1700 Les Paul Standards in 1959? Never heard that estimate before.
     
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  15. abracadaben

    abracadaben Senior Member

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    I stand corrected. its 1700 for 58,59,60. just 643 for 59...
    no that massive anymore uh? ;-)

    lol. well the point was, vintage is better not only because of the people who made them but also because of the material they sourced at that time.

    Sorry I should have been more specific, I meant that there are Luthiers at Gibson Custom Shop today that are as good or better than the ones from the 50s. and that I would assume an extra 50 years of knowledge in making solid bodies would benefit the industry/Gibson. I don't think it is correct to state the luthiers in the 50s were better than luthiers today. I think its reverse. Again I am talking about luthiers, not just trained workers. That would be really stupid lol.

    Aren't CC and Sig supposed to be made by master luthiers?
     
  16. Alvinfan

    Alvinfan Senior Member

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    If luthier workmanship was so important many more would play PRS private stock.
    The one I had was posh but uninspiring and mojoless so I sold it to a dentist.
    But hey it is still 10 % guitar and 90 % player no matter what year or brand ! :dude:
     
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  17. abracadaben

    abracadaben Senior Member

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    right
     
  18. jlb32

    jlb32 Senior Member

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    Probably 99% of us members here have never played a original '58, '59 or '60 Les Paul and probably never will. Build quality varied and tolerances were all over the place. Hype and rarity can do amazing things though. Because of that Gibson or anyone else will never make a better Les Paul guitar than the originals.
     
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  19. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    There is also a vested interest in keeping this myth / hype going by those that own Bursts. No one is going to say hey, my '59 is not really that good.

    Not all Vintage Guitars were good ones, I know that for a fact. Good & bad in all years IMHO. :)

    :cheers:
     
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  20. FennRx

    FennRx Senior Member

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    they're all the greatest guitars ever made as long as you own them:laugh2:

    As for Gibson's workers in the 50s, they were assembly line workers. Nothing more; nothing less. Gibson's QC has been all over the place for a very long time.
     
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