`13 Historic vs vintage

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by MiAa, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. MiAa

    MiAa Senior Member

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    Ok, guys, I hope you don`t mind this question ;)

    I`ve searched a lot for this topic, but mostly found older threads and articles.

    Anyway, my question here is how do the new `13 models compare to the real vintage ones? With all the new appointments in `13, are they a really close match now?

    A bit background on my question. I`m quite new to the LP world, I`ve mainly been a Fender, espcially tele, guy all my life. And I`ve had so much great tele style guitars; everything from expensive CS to "boutique" stuff like Danocaster, Linhof, Vinetto...All were really good guitars, but it wasn`t until I got my maple cap 68 tele that I really understood the term "Nothing beats old wood". It just plays way much better that everything I`ve tried before. (Just wanna say that its refretted and plekked by Joe Glaser) But it`s beyond the refret, maybe it`s the mojo or something? ;) I don`t know, I just know this is a guitar I will keep all my life! No CS I`ve ever tried has come near it!

    I`m sure many will probably disagree with what I wrote above, but it`s really hard to explain why it`s such a better guitar!

    And then, earlier this summer I tried a `13 R7, and it just blew me away. It just played perfectly and sounded awesome! The best LP I`ve ever tried. But I`ve never tried anything from the 50s yet. So for you who have both or have tried both how do they compare? Do you feel that they`re quite close in feel, neck profiles, sound etc.? Or are they quite far away like my tele experience I wrote about above. If so, then the originals have to extremely good!

    And yeah, I`m still searching for my first really good LP. I was set on a `13 R7, but I`ve also been looking a really nice iced tead `13 R8. But then I`m also thinking, should I save up some more and try to go for something more vintage? I`m not talking 50s, hehe, but something from the late 60s.

    Thanks, I`ve already learned so much on this great forum, and I hope that I can present my first LP for yall really soon :fingersx:

    Michael
     
  2. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    Opinions will vary. I will give you mine. I have owned 15 LPs including 3 50s LPs. I have sold and played many more including bursts. I also own a few old fenders and several Japanese shred monsters. All this to say I like a lot of different sounds and feels from different guitar....depends on what my goal is for the guitar as to if it is "a good one". Here your goal sounds like a vintage guitar so that is the context of my response at least.

    I tried out about 20 2013s during my last trip to Nashville and, to me, they all pretty much sounded and played like the other historics I have tried with the one exception being the neck shape was a bit better (but still too thick on most). There was one that reminded me more of a vintage guitar. They all sounded good and I think historics in general are great guitars so they are very good instruments. But you are asking how close to vintage and I think from the sampling I had it is about the same as the last time I did a comparison where about 1/20 or so would be very close. They all are missing some of the other atributes like the aged soaked in lacquer etc. JMO.
     
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  3. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    Do not compare them...

    although similar they have been built too many years apart and no matter how well they copy the originals they will always be different.

    If you think you have to have whatever it is you are chasing and a Historic doesn't do it for you,then you will have to buy an original.
     
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  4. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    Closest might be a makeover which it would put matter if it was a 2013 anyway. After that, a real vintage guitar.
     
  5. Bristol Posse

    Bristol Posse Senior Member

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    IMO, no matter how close the specs, you really can't simulate real age and real use.

    Guitars settle and change over time. Nitro continues to gradually gas off, wood drys out and expands and contracts with each change of season, fingerboards smooth up with wear and skin oil, etc, etc, etc. You just don't get that in a new guitar

    Even in a guitar that's five or six years old, I find it just feels more comfortable than a brand new one

    Now that said I'm not going to pony up thousands and thousands and thousands for real vintage, but I do tend to buy guitars with at least a couple years of mileage on them
    And if I do catch a new one, I play and gig the living sh!t out of it to try and break it in as fast as I can
     
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  6. MiniB

    MiniB Senior Member

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    A far as specs/appointments, they're apparently the closest that stock Historics have come yet (with the exception of Brazillian Rosewood, I think, and actual older growth wood). But still far away for many. Lots of discussions as to what's still off...like stoptail angle, caps/pots, plastic material, lacquer formula, etc.
     
  7. bugman

    bugman Senior Member

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    Ask us in 50yrs,,,,,,,
     
  8. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    '13's are much closer than a '03..Brazoo board is a very small factor.
     
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  9. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    I can't afford it but the one i have is nice.
     
  10. Mike60

    Mike60 V.I.P. Member

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    I have Makeovers and '13's...I'll still take a Makeover over a '13.
     
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  11. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    IMHO for vintage sound and feel actual 50/60s guitars> (this will be controversial) some 70s and early 80s (despite construction differences) and makeovers> modern historics > everything else
     
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  12. FUS44

    FUS44 Senior Member

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    Well, I only own a mere mortal '11.....but a gent who owns a burst stopped by my house yesterday and the whole time he was here he played my R9. He just shook his head, "This thing's a player, man". No BS hyperbole, "If only it had this...". Just blues through a tube amp.

    My take is that until they go to a real nitro (I still posit that in '99 they were closer than they ever were with that...)your guitar will still lack the feel. If you've handled an old gibby you know how you feel the wood through the finish, whereas even glossy R9's still feel rubbery to me. But they are getting better and I'm sure there are some bonafide future classics in every year. Play your guitar man. That's why they made it!
     
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  13. MiniB

    MiniB Senior Member

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    I'd probably take an HM over anything. Actually, for the money that an original Burst would got for now, I'd go with three HM's and use the rest for other things.
     
  14. roscoenyc

    roscoenyc Senior Member

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    Maple Cap '66-68 Fender necks are my favorite of all Fender necks.
     
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  15. JPP373

    JPP373 Premium Member

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    If I were you I'd snag that R7 pronto...don't let it it be the one that got away. Oh wait you tried earlier this summer. Might be the one that got away?
     
  16. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    So Jimmi, we aren't mentioning Conversions & Replicas? :)

    I would think these were the next best thing after a good Vintage & we all know that not all Vintage Guitars are good.

    Quite a few Replicas that nail the whole Vintage thing for way less money (albeit I'd still have Vintage).

    My 2c FWIW.

    Cheers, Rudi
     
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  17. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    I ignored conversions because they are actual vintage instruments so hard to call them repositions etc. I have never played a true replica so can't comment on that on personal experience.
     
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  18. jlb32

    jlb32 Senior Member

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    A HM will get you closer in the looks category (especially if it's aged) but IMO it's still not going to make a newer model sound any closer to an original Burst.
     
  19. Jimmi

    Jimmi Senior Member

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    I have known a couple of people who own both makeovers and vintage that disagree. The change in the electronics alone would change the sound.
     
  20. MiniB

    MiniB Senior Member

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    Well...they do things like neck resets and carving a neck down to your tastes, etc...so overall you're probably getting a better playing guitar than what you sent them. When I look at/read about an HM, I desire one more for what it is, not necessarily what it's 'simulating' but will never really be.

    If I was wealthier than I am, and/or a collector then I'd probably have more to consider in terms of a real vintage Les Paul. But my emphasis is on playing, and as good as I'll ever get I doubt that I'll feel that I've reached all the potential even a regular Historic has to offer...forcing me to seek what I need from a real vintage. Even a player's conversion, I'd still weigh options.

    But when it comes to a real vintage (specifically Les Pauls), even going rates for player's pieces are too rich for my blood. And even if they weren't, I'd probably want it more as a collector than as a player...and I don't think that I'd be as interested in being a collector.
     
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