Were there any changes to SG's in the Norlin Era?

[Oranjeaap]

I have spotted a nice 69 SG custom, appears to be all original. But I happen to know nothing about SG's
For example: A 69 Les paul custom will be worth a lot more than a 70;s custom because of some changes in the norlin era.
So I was wondering if any of these changes happend to SG's in that period aswell
thanks

[RickRandom]

SGs weren't immune to the Norlin influence. The neck volute appears, small pickguard comes back in fashion, neck/body joint changes, some SGs get front-routed control cavities and LP-style guards, some turn into seriously fugly budget models like the SG-100, SG-200, etc., pickup toggle moves way behind the bridge around 1980 or so, just to mention a few.

[Oranjeaap]

How can I tell if its a 69, 70 or even a 71??
When did the volute start??
When I track the serial it says 70, 71 or 72.

Are the prices any different for those years. I dont want to be spending more than I should since im tight on cash

[Kevin James]

Originally Posted by Oranjeaap

How can I tell if its a 69, 70 or even a 71??
When did the volute start??
When I track the serial it says 70, 71 or 72.

Are the prices any different for those years. I dont want to be spending more than I should since im tight on cash

The volute started in mid to late 69 I believe. I would check the pot codes.

[Nils]

They added weight. Had one in my hands today at De Plug Amsterdam and it was heavy as fck. An early 70's model that used to be at Dijkman muziek Alkmaar was heavy as well.

[SoloDallas]

Originally Posted by Oranjeaap

How can I tell if its a 69, 70 or even a 71??
When did the volute start??
When I track the serial it says 70, 71 or 72.

Are the prices any different for those years. I dont want to be spending more than I should since im tight on cash

The volute is usually the easy way to date them. I.e., when the volute is there, it has to be a late '69, early '70s or '71 IF other features are present (i.e., Lyre Vibrato, for example).

If you come to my site (sig) you'll see many to help you out date yours.

When the volute is NOT there, well that is when it is more subtle to date them. In fact, may vendors either take advantage of that or simply do not know.
When the volute is not there, may sellers claim it's a "1968". That will add value for them. Most of them are not '68s though, and are in fact '69s.
Several things will help you:

- Heel (neck joint type)
- Logo, dotted i there or not there
- crown height (headstock)
- beveling (shallow, deep)
- color (walnut, dark cherry red)

These are the features I look at immediately each time.

[SoloDallas]

Please note: sound wise, playability wise, there is no such thing as "magical 1968" and "shitty 1969" or "bad 1971".
I have SGs spanning from 1961 to 1971, and I love them all.
Particularly, 1970s and 1971 Gibson SG standards and customs are terrific.

[EFK]

"Particularly, 1970s and 1971 Gibson SG standards and customs are terrific."

I think you might be a little biased!!

Seriously, there are some grrreeeat SGs to be had if you can put aside the pre-65 "wisdom." I have a early/mid 69 special that has the best neck I have felt on any Gibson, ever. I like them big, and it is the whole baseball bat and half of another.

Anyone care to offer thoughts on the 72-74 ebony/block necks w/ the small guards? Personally, I think they *look* great, but I've never played one and wonder if the necks are toothpicks (I realize they're all narrow-nut, but I mean front to back thickness) or ???

[Herbie74]

My first real guitar was a 1974 with the block inlays. The board on mine is rosewood with binding. The 74s still have the mahogany neck and body. I love the thing and will never get rid of it. The changes norlin made don't bother me:

volute - does not get in the way and may make the neck stronger
Harmonica bridge - I like it because it makes the guitar different than any other period and more bridge mass helps sustain.
Dot inlays again unique to the period

Bottom line it sounds and plays like it should. I have had it for 30 years and no issues.

[slither]

My SG is a 74, a Special with the mini-humbuckers, small block inlays, unbound rosewood board and ABR-1 bridge. Some Specials came with the Schaller bridge I believe.

As to the Norlin changes, I guess in general the same applies as with the Les Paul. From late 69 on the volute, 3 piece necks, "Made In USA" stamped below the serial number, changes in the Gibson logo on the headstock, may or may not have the dot for the "i". The bevelling inside the cutaways seems to be less extreme from the 60's SG's as well. I don't know if SG's got the maple necks from 75-76 onwards, I hope not....to my mind the classic SG formula is all mahogany.

I have had no issues with my SG in 29 years of owning and playing it. And the mini-hums sound great. Oh, and the low wide frets it has may be a Norlin thing too, not sure though.

[gibsonfndr]

my 71 SG custom has been voted my best sounding guitar by the other band members ... opponents were one CS reverse firebird VII, one Les Paul standard two juniors (one CS) and a strat.
now I once owned a 74 that was not quite as good as the 71 or so I seem to remember.

[Litcrit]

Originally Posted by Oranjeaap

How can I tell if its a 69, 70 or even a 71??
When did the volute start??
When I track the serial it says 70, 71 or 72.

Are the prices any different for those years. I dont want to be spending more than I should since im tight on cash

69, 70 and 71 standards were structurally the same. Sometime in late 71, early '72, the guitar changed: the neck was pushed into the body (last fret meets neck humbucker, no space), the bridge was moved back, no more Maestro. Those are different guitars.

[Litcrit]

Originally Posted by Oranjeaap

How can I tell if its a 69, 70 or even a 71??
When did the volute start??
When I track the serial it says 70, 71 or 72.

Are the prices any different for those years. I dont want to be spending more than I should since im tight on cash

69, 70 and 71 standards were structurally the same. Sometime in late 71, early '72, the guitar changed: the neck was pushed into the body (last fret meets neck humbucker, no space), the bridge was moved back, no more Maestro. Those are different guitars.

[Cookie-boy]

Originally Posted by EFK

Anyone care to offer thoughts on the 72-74 ebony/block necks w/ the small guards? Personally, I think they *look* great, but I've never played one and wonder if the necks are toothpicks (I realize they're all narrow-nut, but I mean front to back thickness) or ???

My 73 Custom has a very skinny neck. I don't mind that as I have the hands of a Munchkin but as far as playability is concerned my early '69 is the winner.

[SoloDallas]

Cookie Sir, those are beauty-full.

[Cookie-boy]

Ah.......praise indeed from an afficionado of the marque!!

[slither]

Originally Posted by EFK

Anyone care to offer thoughts on the 72-74 ebony/block necks w/ the small guards? Personally, I think they *look* great, but I've never played one and wonder if the necks are toothpicks (I realize they're all narrow-nut, but I mean front to back thickness) or ???

Here is a pic of my 74 SG Special, mini humbuckers and an unbound rosewood board, but it has the block inlays and small guard. The neck on mine is fairly chunky as far as SG's go. I have no measurements but in feel it's not all that much smaller than the neck on my R9, but with less shoulder.

[slither]

Originally Posted by SoloDallas

Cookie Sir, those are beauty-full.

Ditto.......... especially the standard (apart from the witches hats....... *ducks*)

[SoloDallas]

Originally Posted by Cookie-boy

Ah.......praise indeed from an afficionado of the marque!!

Ay your service, Sir (do I sound British enough or what???)

[Axis39]

I have a 70-71 that was originally sold to me as a 67 (way back in the days before the Internet was available to normal people). It had been customized already and I didn't pay much for it, so I won't complain about the Pawn Shop I bought it from.

It has the volute and one of the most comfortable necks you can imagine. It's thick, but not baseball bat fat. The nut is a little narrower than I'd like, but my 68 ES was like that too. The frets are wide, fat little bastards that barely clear the rosewood and I love them that way. It originally had a Lyre, but it was gone buy the time I got it. I tried a Bigsby and didn't really care for it on this guitar, so went back tot he stop tailpiece.

I have recently installed P-Rails and love it to death. It's a great guitar. It's ugly, not original finish, pickups, or hardware.... but she plays like a dream.

[SoloDallas]

Originally Posted by Axis39

I have a 70-71 that was originally sold to me as a 67 (way back in the days before the Internet was available to normal people). It had been customized already and I didn't pay much for it, so I won't complain about the Pawn Shop I bought it from.

It has the volute and one of the most comfortable necks you can imagine. It's thick, but not baseball bat fat. The nut is a little narrower than I'd like, but my 68 ES was like that too. The frets are wide, fat little bastards that barely clear the rosewood and I love them that way. It originally had a Lyre, but it was gone buy the time I got it. I tried a Bigsby and didn't really care for it on this guitar, so went back tot he stop tailpiece.

I have recently installed P-Rails and love it to death. It's a great guitar. It's ugly, not original finish, pickups, or hardware.... but she plays like a dream.

John,
same happened to me (twice) over the years.
Funnily enough, I wanted a '68 thinking it had been Angus Young's first SG.
What happened in very short time is, first I uncovered my guitar wasn't a '68 but it was a '71. One day after this - and I was in pain - I did find out Angus' first SG was a actually a '71 (wrote a lot about it).

Couldn't have been happier, and still am.
Right now, I almost favor more '70s and '71s than '68s and '69s.
Not only for now I know the truth but also because, indeed the early '70s ones are different, very comfortable but mostly, extremely powerful and "cut-thru" guitars.

[Cookie-boy]

Originally Posted by SoloDallas

Ay your service, Sir (do I sound British enough or what???)

Oh, spiffing!!

[HOT-BRIT]

I would say that the 70's SG are one of the best value on the vintage market, I hzve had several over yhe years that were good players. The SG with the walnut body from 79 are excellent if you can find one

[Axis39]

Originally Posted by SoloDallas

John,
same happened to me (twice) over the years.
Funnily enough, I wanted a '68 thinking it had been Angus Young's first SG.
What happened in very short time is, first I uncovered my guitar wasn't a '68 but it was a '71. One day after this - and I was in pain - I did find out Angus' first SG was a actually a '71 (wrote a lot about it).

Couldn't have been happier, and still am.
Right now, I almost favor more '70s and '71s than '68s and '69s.
Not only for now I know the truth but also because, indeed the early '70s ones are different, very comfortable but mostly, extremely powerful and "cut-thru" guitars.

Yeah, that was my story too... Wanted one like Angus' but, I had no idea what year any of his were (or even that it made a difference.... oh how the Internet has changed that, huh? LOL!!!). I thought it was cool that it was close to my birth year, '68.

I had a 68 ES and this 70-1 SG and I have become fond of the volute actually. I think it's very comfortable for playing down at the far end of the guitar. Both have kinda skinny nuts, which I don't' care for, but I can live with on the SG. I don't l know that I would actively seek out a Les Paul from this era, but I do like the SGs a lot. Having never heard this SG with the stock pickups, I dunno about that either. My ES was a good guitar, but I always thought it lacked a little something, from time to time, as per the pickups.

But my SG with the P-Rails sounds pretty good. I am most fond of the P-90 and Humbucker sounds in it. The rails, not so much.

Anyway, I'm glad I finally noticed the Vintage SG forum... Cool to find out all this stuff about my guitar!

[geochem1st]

Originally Posted by Axis39

....

But my SG with the P-Rails sounds pretty good. I am most fond of the P-90 and Humbucker sounds in it. The rails, not so much.

Anyway, I'm glad I finally noticed the Vintage SG forum... Cool to find out all this stuff about my guitar!

Please post a pic of it!

[geochem1st]

Originally Posted by Axis39

....
It has the volute and one of the most comfortable necks you can imagine. It's thick, but not baseball bat fat. The nut is a little narrower than I'd like, but my 68 ES was like that too. The frets are wide, fat little bastards that barely clear the rosewood and I love them that way. It originally had a Lyre, but it was gone buy the time I got it. I tried a Bigsby and didn't really care for it on this guitar, so went back tot he stop tailpiece.

I have recently installed P-Rails and love it to death. It's a great guitar. It's ugly, not original finish, pickups, or hardware.... but she plays like a dream.

Many moons ago, I actually learned to play electric guitar on a 70 SG with a Bigsby, that was my friends. I absolutely loved that guitar. He wound up trading it for a tele.... I could have shot him

[Axis39]

Originally Posted by geochem1st

Please post a pic of it!

Okay, you asked for it!

Here's a poor quality one. It's also not current. I swapped out the push/pulls for toggles.... The holes were already there when I bought it, don't bitch! I didn't like the quality of the push/pull pots and went with Bourns and a good pair of caps from Jonesy.

And yes, the inlay is awful... I was young and dumb. I'm still trying to figure out the best way to 'fix' it. My skill level has greatly improved, as has my patience, since first undertaking the 'SG Project'.

This gal's been through hell, it fell at one point about six feet and the neck broke from the body and there's a big gouge in the edge near the strap button. At one point, I had completely stripped it and it's finished in Shellac now (which I love the velvety soft finish of, by the way). All the hardware went missing in between several moves, so I've had to find aftermarket stuff all over. But she's a player not a beauty queen. And she plays quite well actually.

It was never worth a lot of money as it wasn't stock when I bought it. I'm sure I've probably ruined all potential resale value, except she plays like a dream... and I ain't planning on selling her anytime soon anyway.

[Caoimhin]

Originally Posted by Cookie-boy

My 73 Custom has a very skinny neck. I don't mind that as I have the hands of a Munchkin but as far as playability is concerned my early '69 is the winner.

I'm in love with that custom. Natural finish is the best when it comes to SGs. That custom looks much better than the black or white ones.

[EgilH]

The body size of the Norlin SG's was also slightly increased, 71-72 had no neck angle (neck was parallel to the body), almost no beveling in the cutaway. Beveling gradually came back in 73. Headstock angle also changed from 14 back to the original 17 degrees around the same period.