Les Paul Forums
Homepage - Sponsors - Subscription - Auctions - Advertise - Spy  

Go Back   Les Paul Forums > The Les Paul > Vintage Les Pauls > Vintage SG
Click to visit LuthierTalk.com   LIKE MyLesPaul on Facebook FOLLOW MyLesPaul on Twitter
  

Like Tree7Likes

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 10-02-2010, 08:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Kevin James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,244
Thanks: 11
Thanked 39 Times in 11 Posts
Refret?

How much does a re-fret effect the value of a vintage instrument?

I have a little dilema. I just got my 64 SG JR back from my tech today. He cleaned the thing up and did a set up on it. He told me the frets are pretty low and short of a refret there's only so much he can do. He also told me that its still a great guitar and it would be a shame to modify it. He said in all honesty if it were his guitar he would not do the refret, he would leave it how it is.

I don't know what to do. I'm pretty resistant to a re-fret based on its effect on the value but after getting this thing home and wailing on it for a while I'm kinda sad because this thing is a tone MONSTER and it just wants to sing... but the frets are so low its difficult to do much soloing on it.

Looking for advise and oppinions. NOT looking for the "it's your guitar do whaever you want" that seems to be standard here. Thats not much help... I already know it's my guitar lol

So... oppinions????

Here's a couple pics from before the clean up job:

Kevin James is offline   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Les Paul

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Les Paul Forums
   
Unread 10-02-2010, 09:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
circusboy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Petersham in sunny Sydney
Posts: 5,401
Thanks: 185
Thanked 27 Times in 7 Posts
Re: Refret?

Sounds to me like you want to play it and get the best from it, and there's only one way to do that! Did you you buy it for resale value...because if you did you're better off keeping it in the case and never touching it. People here will have different views, but to me a '64 Jnr is met to PLAYED AND ENJOYED!!! And that's a beauty you've got there by the way mate.
atheos likes this.
circusboy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-02-2010, 09:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
raul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NM desert
Posts: 422
Thanks: 1
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Refret?

I would absolutely refret it.
atheos likes this.
raul is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-03-2010, 01:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
slither's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The Shire (aka God's Country), Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,250
Thanks: 31
Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts
Re: Refret?

If you have it for playing, and it's falling short in it's current condition, then definately have it refretted.
__________________
Minds, like parachutes, only work when they are open.

Guitars

2009 PRS Howard Leese Golden Eagle #88/100
2010 PRS McCarty Shootout #12/50
2003 Les Paul 1957 Reissue Brazilian (Goldtop)
2007 Les Paul 1959 Reissue (Washed Cherry)
2007 Les Paul 1958 Reissue (Iced Tea)
1978 Hamer Sunburst
1974 SG Special (Cherry)
slither is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-03-2010, 01:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
diceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana
Posts: 29,930
Thanks: 1,212
Thanked 419 Times in 83 Posts
Re: Refret?

I just had my '69 Les Paul refretted. Best thing I could have done for that guitar - it plays like a new guitar. I also had my '69 Guild Starfire refretted this year.

I say... "go for it." Only a moron would be upset when looking to buy a vintage guitar that you chose to refret it as opposed to leaving little nubs of original frets on it...

Frets wear out just like the clutch in a car.

"Gee, that old Corvette sure is nice. Too bad about you replacing the clutch, though. I'm looking for something all original - so I can look at it... Drive it? No, I don't want to drive it. I'd rather have the original worn out clutch in there."
diceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-03-2010, 01:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
onehippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,644
Thanks: 164
Thanked 64 Times in 5 Posts
Re: Refret?

no worries
see Jonesy great refret on a bass restore im doing spot on
will only cost about $20-$25 to ship it to him and returns safe
onehippie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-03-2010, 01:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
diceman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Montana
Posts: 29,930
Thanks: 1,212
Thanked 419 Times in 83 Posts
Re: Refret?

On that guitar - I'd send it to Greg or Roman, unless you have someone local that you trust. Roman is in Northern CA. If I were you, I'd just drive it on up to him. When he has time, that is. (he just had a baby)
diceman is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-03-2010, 09:35 AM   #8 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Mike60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Reflectorland
Posts: 8,451
Thanks: 0
Thanked 111 Times in 36 Posts
Re: Refret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin James View Post
How much does a re-fret effect the value of a vintage instrument?
...

Very little if it is done properly.Since it is an unbound neck it can be done so well few will be able to tell.

Besides having a great vintage guitar that is difficult to play because the frets are beat is a waste of money.
Mike60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-03-2010, 09:43 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
River's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rural Colorado, USA
Posts: 54,557
Thanks: 745
Thanked 847 Times in 77 Posts
Re: Refret?

Except in the rarefied air of glass-case museum pieces, I'd go for the re-fret every time.
atheos likes this.
River is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-04-2010, 02:40 AM   #10 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Ayrton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Posts: 221
Thanks: 23
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: Refret?

I would not view a proper refret as devaluing a players guitar.
__________________
".....if you're not sure about me, assume I'm laughing and smiling as I type.....none of this is worth taking that seriously...."
Ayrton is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-04-2010, 10:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Kevin James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,244
Thanks: 11
Thanked 39 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Refret?

Thanks for the input guys. Guess I got a lot to think about. On one hand it's not an every day player, it gets played every once in a while. On the other hand I probably would play it more if it was refretted, but even then it still wouldn't be an every day guitar like my R9 or R7.
Kevin James is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-04-2010, 12:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
58burst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 225
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post
Re: Refret?

A refret doesn't damage a guitar, it's like changing the sparkplugs in a car. Original frets are all very fine, but if they're so worn to be unplayable, then who'd want the guitar anyway? At that point a (well done) refret is a BIG improvement in the guitar, and if anything should improve its value compared to unplayable...
58burst is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-04-2010, 01:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Maestro and the Muse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 541
Thanks: 2
Thanked 16 Times in 8 Posts
Re: Refret?

I've read advice from collectors magazines (can't cite them for the life of me, so take that for what it's worth) saying that a GOOD re-fret doesn't affect the value of a vintage guitar IF you use the same size fretwire. Where you're lucky is in the fact that your guitar isn't bound, and doesn't have nibs. That'd make a great refret easier to pull off.
__________________
Maestro and the Muse

And the collection is up to 13... (Ezra, Nigel, Ophelia, Gabriel, Fiona, Sylvia, Liesl, Jenny, Eli, Amelia, Mackayla, Gillian and Riley)

Maestro uses exclusively:
DGN Custom Guitars Humbucker Pickups in his LPs and ES-335
Klein Single Coil Pickups in his Fender guitars and basses
Maestro and the Muse is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-05-2010, 10:26 AM   #14 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Dolebludger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Durango, CO
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 11
Thanked 21 Times in 8 Posts
Re: Refret?

I own one of the "mintest" of the mint one owner '61 LP SG Standards. Not bragging. It is just that I bought it new when I was 17, and didn't ever want to sell it.

I gigged with this guitar a lot earlier in its life, and long before it developed any collector's value, the frets became too grooved to play right. I did the first thing most people do, and had a luthier even them down, creating a bit of a "fretless wonder". I continued to play it, and the frets became grooved again. The luthier correctly said that they couldn't be dressed down further and still be playable. So about 25 years ago, I had a refret with original size frets. At that time, collectors' value wasn't an issue, as the guitar hadn't developed much of it yet.

So, my theory is that any 60s guitars that have actually been played probably have had at least one refret by prior owners. Chances are that the worn-out frets on that '64 SG Junior probably are not original either.
__________________
'62 Gibson LP SG Standard
'09 Epi Goldtop LP P 90
Two Carvins
Custom Strat
Electra Strat type
Hondo Longhorn
Durango Guitar Works "Contender" (ask me about this one!)
Sterling SUB AX3 (ask me about this one too)
PRS SE "Orianthi"

Genz Benz El Diablo 60 TS.
Bugera V22
Dolebludger is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-05-2010, 11:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 949
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Re: Refret?

A bad refret can irreversibly damage a guitar but a really good refret is impossible to detect. The trick is to find someone who will do a really good refret - someone who will respect the original guitar and not want to start planing the board, cutting bigger fretslots and filing and sanding the edges of the board to trim the new frets. You just want the old frets removed and exactly the same ones, but without the wear put back in.

It is perfectly possible to do partial or total refrets that are exactly like original and these will have minimal impact on value.
Sgt.Pepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-08-2010, 02:15 AM   #16 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
Drowned Rabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 100
Thanks: 2
Thanked 12 Times in 1 Post
Re: Refret?

A refret will hurt the resale value a bit, but here's my opinion based on my own experience with vintage guitars....


Refret that sucker! And then brace yourself for a spiritual experience, because once you refret, you're probably never going to want to sell it.
Drowned Rabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-13-2010, 08:58 PM   #17 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,004
Thanks: 24
Thanked 70 Times in 7 Posts
Re: Refret?

I vote yes on the refret
Laservampire is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-13-2010, 10:13 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
Totti_Guitar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 40
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: Refret?

I would absolutely refret it.
__________________
"In our culture we have such respect for musical instruments, they are like part of God."

Quote:
Johnny Winter is one of the best blues players in the world. He's very underrated.

-Ritchie Blackmore
Fender American standard Strat
Epiphone SG Deluxe (open E)
Cort Acoustic Guitar (open G)

Ibanez Tube Screamer TS-9
Vox Standard Wah
HandMade Analog Delay

Fender Blues Junior

Eric Sardinas Sig. Slide
Dunlop Glass Slide
Rocky Mountain Swamp Frog Glass Slide
Totti_Guitar is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-13-2010, 10:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
weirdotis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Crossroads
Posts: 5,141
Thanks: 153
Thanked 85 Times in 23 Posts
Re: Refret?

Get it done by a pro and there shouldn't be any qualms (I think that's the right word ...). As an aside, you might ask your tech or whoever does the refret to save the original frets, in case you ever choose to sell to the AVH type.
__________________
-Matt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.guitars View Post
Heaven forbid someone show a video of Audley Freed actually playing his Historic. Such nonsense might take away from the riveting conversations about Lifton cases and the tonal variations of glue...
http://matthewbrownmusic.net/
weirdotis is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-16-2010, 08:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
geochem1st's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: NC
Posts: 21,460
Thanks: 876
Thanked 696 Times in 201 Posts
Re: Refret?

On my to do list.

I have a 61 SG Special, has needed a refret for a while. When things improve financially it will get one.
__________________
_____________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by River
Yeah, it's shit. But it's my shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRT
True courage is not about knowing when to take a life, but when to spare one
geochem1st is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2010, 12:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Dolebludger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Durango, CO
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 11
Thanked 21 Times in 8 Posts
Re: Refret?

Again, if the fret job is done properly with the correct size and shaped frets, a re-fret is something a collector will EXPECT to have been done at least once at some point in the life of a 50 year old guitar. Chances are you guys with these guitars with worn out frets don't have the original frets on them anyway!

The only way a collector could ever find a 50 year old guitar with original frets in playable condition is if the guitar were scarcely ever played. And this would present a new (and more serious) problem to the collector. Many collectors believe that an guitar must be played somewhat regularly to maintain and enhance the primary tone from the wood. True of false, I don't know. But many collectors believe it to be true, and it hurts the value of an unplayed vintage guitar.
__________________
'62 Gibson LP SG Standard
'09 Epi Goldtop LP P 90
Two Carvins
Custom Strat
Electra Strat type
Hondo Longhorn
Durango Guitar Works "Contender" (ask me about this one!)
Sterling SUB AX3 (ask me about this one too)
PRS SE "Orianthi"

Genz Benz El Diablo 60 TS.
Bugera V22
Dolebludger is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2010, 01:59 PM   #22 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Drew224's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 14,359
Thanks: 767
Thanked 173 Times in 58 Posts
Re: Refret?

I can't stand guitars with worn frets. One of my friends has an epi that's worn to the point of being unplayable.

Just my two cents. If you're going to get a guitar to actually play it, you should keep it playable.
__________________

Scarlet White
Drew224 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-17-2010, 04:43 PM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Dolebludger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Durango, CO
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 11
Thanked 21 Times in 8 Posts
Re: Refret?

Collectors don't like guitars with frets worn so badly that they are unplayable either. Don't believe me? Google around for some reputable, national level vintage guitar dealers and ask them. They know that NO 50 year old guitar has original frets if it was ever played at all (and if it wasn't played at all, collectors don't want it for other reasons I've posted above). So all unplayable, worn frets tell a collector is the guitar hasn't been properly maintained, And that sure doesn't help its value.

But let me clarify. Putting in new frets on a vintage guitar is not a DIY job (unless you happen to be a grade A luthier). And it is not cheap. My luthier charges about $250 for new frets done right on one of these. But it is better than keeping an unplayable guitar with needed maintenance that will hurt its value if the right collector comes along.
__________________
'62 Gibson LP SG Standard
'09 Epi Goldtop LP P 90
Two Carvins
Custom Strat
Electra Strat type
Hondo Longhorn
Durango Guitar Works "Contender" (ask me about this one!)
Sterling SUB AX3 (ask me about this one too)
PRS SE "Orianthi"

Genz Benz El Diablo 60 TS.
Bugera V22
Dolebludger is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-21-2010, 05:16 PM   #24 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
H.E.L.Shane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Mifflintown, PA
Posts: 5,116
Thanks: 10
Thanked 199 Times in 68 Posts
Re: Refret?

welll...... the pics aint that great.... but those frets don't look that low to me..

My 65's frets are so low that the last time i milled 'em, i realized that was the last one because the crowning file rode on the board on the lowest ones and i had to resort to other measures to get a proper crown..

NOW.. to ME, thats a fast neck....

to my ESP playing budy... he friggin HATES it because his fingers touch the fretboard and he complains he can't hammer on and such... His guitar has railroad tracks on it and I HATE it...!!!

Here's the deal on VALUE however...

If the frets are too low... then that will also affect the guitars value because the potential buyer is going to KNOW that the guitar is in need of a re-fret.

My advice is to have it re-fretted with the proper wire by a GOOD repair shop... as long as the board doesn't suffer any damage during the re-fret, you really wont devalue the guitar.
__________________
______________________________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickBOOTH View Post
She's kinda hot in that dyke first cousin sort of way.
H.E.L.Shane is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-21-2010, 05:32 PM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Dolebludger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Durango, CO
Posts: 3,849
Thanks: 11
Thanked 21 Times in 8 Posts
Re: Refret?

Yeah, we all know that the '61 SG LP Custom had very low, wide frets and was marketed as the "fretless wonder". Some players like those wide, low frets and some do not. But the '64 SG Jr. was not a "fretless wonder" when new, and making one out of it now will not help its collector's value.

Frets on a collector guitar are like brake shoes or pads on a collector car. They are parts on something that wear out before the thing develops collector value. If you were thinking about buying a vintage 50s Jaguar roadster, it wouldn't make it more valuable to you if it had the original brake pads, now would it? Not unless you had a death wish! No, you would want fairly new, original equipment type brake pads on that car. Same with frets a vintage guitar.
__________________
'62 Gibson LP SG Standard
'09 Epi Goldtop LP P 90
Two Carvins
Custom Strat
Electra Strat type
Hondo Longhorn
Durango Guitar Works "Contender" (ask me about this one!)
Sterling SUB AX3 (ask me about this one too)
PRS SE "Orianthi"

Genz Benz El Diablo 60 TS.
Bugera V22
Dolebludger is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-22-2010, 04:06 PM   #26 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Kevin James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,244
Thanks: 11
Thanked 39 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Refret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by H.E.L.Shane View Post
welll...... the pics aint that great.... but those frets don't look that low to me..

My 65's frets are so low that the last time i milled 'em, i realized that was the last one because the crowning file rode on the board on the lowest ones and i had to resort to other measures to get a proper crown..

NOW.. to ME, thats a fast neck....

to my ESP playing budy... he friggin HATES it because his fingers touch the fretboard and he complains he can't hammer on and such... His guitar has railroad tracks on it and I HATE it...!!!

Here's the deal on VALUE however...

If the frets are too low... then that will also affect the guitars value because the potential buyer is going to KNOW that the guitar is in need of a re-fret.

My advice is to have it re-fretted with the proper wire by a GOOD repair shop... as long as the board doesn't suffer any damage during the re-fret, you really wont devalue the guitar.
My photagraphy "skills" are complete crap so yes I agree the pics aren't that great.

The frets are lower than they appear in the pics. Playing and doing any kind of bends just doesn't work at all which is a drag. The other option I thought of if I don't refret it is setting it up as a dedicated slide guitar but I don't know, I don't really want to do that.

As to having the work done by a good repair shop I am very happy with the guy I take my guitars to and I've been going to him for years. His name is Mark Brown (Mark's Guitar Repair) and he's out of Campbell CA. He does really good work and he's very honest. If what you want isn't really necesary, he'll you you its not necessary which is refreshing. Funny thing I found out recently is that he was the guitar tech for the Doobie Brothers from 72-84. I read an interview witht he Doobie Brothers that confirmed it.
Kevin James is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-28-2010, 04:27 PM   #27 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Kevin James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,244
Thanks: 11
Thanked 39 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Refret?

Does anyone know what size the original fret wire should be? I have two to refret now, this and the 67 Special.
Kevin James is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-29-2010, 03:33 AM   #28 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
SoloDallas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Originally born in Dallas,TX. Now living in Rome, IT
Posts: 1,336
Thanks: 31
Thanked 167 Times in 28 Posts
Re: Refret?

Have no idea how much refretting affects value.
I can tell you this: I have circa 30 vintage SGs. They are ALL refretted, no exception. Refretted and PLEK'd, actually, all of them.
__________________


www.solodallas.com
SoloDallas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-30-2010, 05:50 PM   #29 (permalink)
V.I.P. Member
 
Kevin James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,244
Thanks: 11
Thanked 39 Times in 11 Posts
Re: Refret?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloDallas View Post
Have no idea how much refretting affects value.
I can tell you this: I have circa 30 vintage SGs. They are ALL refretted, no exception. Refretted and PLEK'd, actually, all of them.
Could you post some close up pics of the frets/binding? I want to see how they were done. This is not an issue for my 64 JR that needs a refret but it is a major issue for the 67 Special that also needs a refret.

I have two local guys telling me how they would do it and both are different. One would remove the original binding and replace with new binding after including full nibs covering the fret ends. The other guy would leave the original binding alone but he would put the fret edges OVER the binding.

What I wanted was the frets up to the outer edge of the board but NOT over the binding. Neither guy recomended that so I'm not sure what to do.
Kevin James is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-30-2010, 07:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
circusboy28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Petersham in sunny Sydney
Posts: 5,401
Thanks: 185
Thanked 27 Times in 7 Posts
Re: Refret?

I seem to recall Roman posting about doing it that way to preserve the nibs. I would think it would be a very time consuming (& expensive!!) job.
circusboy28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:45 PM.


LIKE MyLesPaul on Facebook   FOLLOW MyLesPaul on Twitter

Our Network: Luthier Forum | SG Guitar Forum | Marshall Amp Forum | Music Gear Forum | 7 String Guitar Forum | Acoustic Guitar Forum

MyLesPaul proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2006-2013, MyLesPaul.com. All Rights Reserved.