VINTAGE SOUND-What is it??

[hedzeppelin]

I keep hearing people say, "Oh this guitar gives me that "vintage" sound", or
"I'm looking for a guitar that will give me that "vintage" sound" or "I replaced the pickups so I could get that "vintage" sound.

Exacty what the hell IS the "vintage" sound? Can you give some examples?
I don't think I've ever heard that "vintage" sound.

[johnreardon]

That's going to be a difficult one to answer.

Is it the sound the Shadows got from their AC30s with echo chambers?
Is it the sound the Beatles got from their Vox amps?
Is it the sound that 'insert name of favourite 60/70s band got from their Marshalls.

Really don't know.

I suppose you could argue that as a lot of bands in the 60s used no or minimal effects, then anybody who does the same these days is getting a vintage sound.

Personally, I much prefer the sound I get from my modern stuff. It's far more reliable. I use no pedals and for me, the sounds I get are perfect. Just wish I could play better

[hedzeppelin]

I actually think that the so-called "vintage" sound is a myth. Those recordings were massaged in the studio, so how do we know that the raw sound of the guitar and amp REALLy even sounded like we hear it on the recordings? We don't.

[johnreardon]

Originally Posted by hedzeppelin

I actually think that the so-called "vintage" sound is a myth. Those recordings were massaged in the studio, so how do we know that the raw sound of the guitar and amp REALLy even sounded like we hear it on the recordings? We don't.

having played on the same stage as many of the 60s bands, I can assure you that the guitar sounds and playing were raw. If anything, the sounds in the studio didn't match up to what people were getting on live gigs, because many engineers tried to over-control what people used. We had to really hammer into the engineers heads that we would be using our 100w amps and they would have to cope.

When people talk about vintage sound, they probably mean that the piece of equipment is built using practices/procedures that people did in the 50/60/70s. Hence the use of PTP wiring instead of PCB or the use of pickups wired in the same ways people did back then.

I am a firm believer that most of the sounds we all achieve come from us, not the equipment. I still sound essentially the same whether I am using an old Strat through a Bassman as playing a PRS through a Mesa. Now if people want to call me playing the old Strat through a Bassman as sounding 'vintage' then that's fine by me. Life is too short to worry or be concerned at the labels that some want to attach to things.

[hedzeppelin]

You're right, John. I agree. I was there in the 60's and 70's as well. Not to the degree that you were, but I know what you're saying.

My point here is, that people say that they want the "vintage" sound. I don't really think there is such a thing. Take Led Zep for example. Jimmy Page's rig sounded quite different live than his studio recordings. So, which one is vintage?

[idlewild south]

Originally Posted by hedzeppelin

You're right, John. I agree. I was there in the 60's and 70's as well. Not to the degree that you were, but I know what you're saying.

My point here is, that people say that they want the "vintage" sound. I don't really think there is such a thing. Take Led Zep for example. Jimmy Page's rig sounded quite different live than his studio recordings. So, which one is vintage?

That post is right on target!

[johnreardon]

Originally Posted by hedzeppelin

You're right, John. I agree. I was there in the 60's and 70's as well. Not to the degree that you were, but I know what you're saying.

My point here is, that people say that they want the "vintage" sound. I don't really think there is such a thing. Take Led Zep for example. Jimmy Page's rig sounded quite different live than his studio recordings. So, which one is vintage?

perhaps those who want the vintage sound need to age 20-30 years

I agree Jimmy sounded different on record than live, not that I ever saw them live. However seen many videos of their live performances. That may be because Jimmy was an excellent session guitarist and knew his way around studios perhaps more than the average guitarist.

Personally, I don't understand why people want to sound like anyone, other than themself

[ptate]

It's like a "ping", "twang", or "thung" noise I believe...............

[FLICKOFLASH]

I want Big John's sound screw vintage
SoundClick song info: Peavey Classic 20 & Les Paul #3 by JB's samples - Song info page with free MP3 music downloads

[LePaul54]

To me that real LP tone vint sound is
John Mayall / Clapton Bluesbreakers album..pick any song.
Mike Bloomfield and Al Kooper Live.....
Johnny Winter / Second Winter album..(Johnny use to play a Goldtop so he qualifies!!).....Song-I hate everybody ..Song Memory Pain


Let me add those 3 inspired a crapload of 13 year old kids in my original hometown Brooklyn NY.

Let me add again hearing chirps when the pick scraps the string above the hummer.......mid-range at highe volumes .......an occasional mistake comming thru the recording!!!!!!!

[zeppelin13]

Originally Posted by johnreardon
I agree Jimmy sounded different on record than live, not that I ever saw them live. However seen many videos of their live performances. That may be because Jimmy was an excellent session guitarist and knew his way around studios perhaps more than the average guitarist.

he knew way more around the studio than the average guitaristits said that he played on more tha half of all the records coming out of britian from i think 1954 to like 1956. and he produced all led zeppelin and created some cool stuff like backward echo and how to mic drums for more depth

[flameburst]

Vintage Sound is a vintage guitar through a vintage amp, set with considerable volume. No hairdresser effects or racks or boxes. You might be able to get away with a Wah-wah. A Les Paul with humbuckers thru an old tweed Fender Champ would summarise it well for you. Like a bumblebee in a jamjar!

Think of all the electric guitar tones you love; it's ALL vintage sound... Kossoff, Mayall/Clapton/Green, Allmans, early Al Di Meola, early ZZ Top, Wes Montgomery, Chet Atkins, Brian Setzer, Hendrix. Hell, they all sound totally different, and played different styles of music - BUT they all had vintage sound! A Gretsch 6120 through a tweed Bassman has vintage sound, as much as a 'burst through a Marshall has a vintage sound. Sonically though, chalk and cheese.

I guess it was the big-haired 80's with it's transistor amps, rack effects and pointy headstocks which killed guitar tone. Thank the God of feedback for players like Eric Johnson and Slash who steered us back away from that, circa 1987. FYI; you could pick up a flametop '58-'60 burst in London for under £5k GBP around then. I remember seeing them and playing them as a kid, while everyone else was buying Jackson's, Kramer's and Charvel's.
Also the vintage Strat was making a huge comeback... 'Stratmania'.

[ReverendJWblues]

back when......the vintage sound was the new sound analog not digital tubes were different speakers were different wiring was different, hell everything was different, people I think took more pride in what they tried to accomplish, hendrix,page,clapton,etc didnt just say I want this sound they worked at it, today I think people sit around and think what can I do with a computer. nobody is willing to put in the sweat for nuthing, its what kind of money can I get for this or that without putting much into it. want vintage sound? work at it just you and your guitar. You can find what your looking for.

[lexluthier]

I think a lot of people forget that the player is the biggest part of the equation.

[johnreardon]

Originally Posted by lexluthier

I think a lot of people forget that the player is the biggest part of the equation.

Not me. Fully agree with that. I played a couple of songs with a young kids cheap Strat copy, a month or so ago. Yes the workmanship was a bit iffy and it was a struggle to play, but it still sounded more or less the same. No one in the crowd would have noticed, except the young chap who was really pleased

[dwagar]

I think the vintage guitar sound difference is small, but it is there. It's the tone of the wood peeking through. It's the clarity of those old pickups.

The amp difference IMO is bigger. In the old days we didn't have monster PAs to project the sound, nor did we have monster transistor amps. The guitar players found their sound with their tube amps turned up all the way. The bigger the venue, the more Marshall stacks you needed. Clapton recorded the Beano album with his Marshall dimed. Mayall said they used those Marshalls because they were simply the loudest amp they could find "that would fit in the van".

Since then, amp manufacturers have been trying to recreate this sound at lower volumes, but you lose something in the process. On the upside, you save your ears.

[Ray]

Well, the thread title say's vintage "sound".

To have that, you have to play that.

If vintage "tone" is what you want, that's a whole different thing.

A good example, IMO...I watched Greenday's Storyteller yesterday, and BJ Armstrong's "tone" is vintage all the way. P-90 LP Jr and (from what I can dig up on the WWW), a Marshall 100W Superlead...also, a JMP MK-II and a few other later model Marshalls. That amp info may be outdated now though.

Anyway, although he has fabulous, raw, vintage "tone", his playing, writing, and singing style is definately more along the lines of what I'd call "modern"....including nearly NO soloing. And what soloing there is, is pretty much straight line stuff...more or less part of the riff or echoing of the melody, or whatever. You know today's style.

So, bottom line...vintage "tone" can be bought. Vintage "sound" is harder to come by.

[3Steps]

Here you go, this is VINTAGE sound!

YouTube - The Zimmers "My Generation" Released: 28/05/07

[ReverendJWblues]

Originally Posted by 3Steps

Here you go, this is VINTAGE sound!

YouTube - The Zimmers "My Generation" Released: 28/05/07

sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.

[LPCollector]

Originally Posted by johnreardon

Personally, I don't understand why people want to sound like anyone, other than themself

That summizes it for me!

I have always dreamed to be good enough that people would have to classify, put a label on, or to emulate, MY sound!

[Paul]

a vintage sound is when you have an old set of pickups or an old amp that have been used allot i have a pair of antique pickups in one of my 335's and they are great. and my fender twin (1965) sounds incredible.

the sound is created when currant is passed through the pickup or amp the more currant that passes through the pickup/amp the older and more warn the resistors get and the magnets get worn out and the valves/tubes get more worn. the end result is a deep warm tone. its really nice it just sounds way better than a new pickups/amps.

my les paul custom is only eight years old but the pickups are getting a really nice and warm tone sounds great but the pickups that are in my 335 are nearly thirty years old their the best pickups in any of my guitars.

[terence_tez]

well,i recently played a friends 10 years old yamaha,n it sounded quite crappy though...

[Paul]

Originally Posted by terence_tez

well,i recently played a friends 10 years old yamaha,n it sounded quite crappy though...

well if its a bad guitar to start off with it wont likely get any better.

there are good and bad guitars of any brand.

[Todd Louis]

Originally Posted by hedzeppelin

I keep hearing people say, "Oh this guitar gives me that "vintage" sound", or
"I'm looking for a guitar that will give me that "vintage" sound" or "I replaced the pickups so I could get that "vintage" sound.

Exacty what the hell IS the "vintage" sound? Can you give some examples?
I don't think I've ever heard that "vintage" sound.

Do you listen to Zeppelin Cream Hendrix Etc .. Then you have heard the "Vintage Tone"

The only why to really describe it to you is for you to go and Play a "real" Vintage guitar.

Something from the Mc Cathy era or Pre CBS

[GearHo]

Greetings.

Vintage tone that we refer to was played on relatively new instuments/amps, therefore as a guitar aged and entered into what we now call "vintage", our reference for that tone was not from a 50 year old guitar or amp.

A 59 Les Paul played in 1966 was just a 7 year old guitar, a good 7 year old guitar but nonetheless, the word vintage is a new word about old tone, that was played on somewhat used instruments.

You are your best source of tone, played through the best possible instruments you can not help to sound as good as you are capable.

Congrats to a new forum, lets have some fun!

[hedzeppelin]

Originally Posted by GearHo

Greetings.

Vintage tone that we refer to was played on relatively new instuments/amps, therefore as a guitar aged and entered into what we now call "vintage", our reference for that tone was not from a 50 year old guitar or amp.

A 59 Les Paul played in 1966 was just a 7 year old guitar, a good 7 year old guitar but nonetheless, the word vintage is a new word about old tone, that was played on somewhat used instruments.

Exactly. So, the so-called "vintage" sound was made by relatively new equipment (at the time). The equipment is important, agreed. However,
what the player DOES with the equipment is where the sound comes from.

So, you're not necessarily going to get THE "vintage" sound from old equipment.

Then again, what people are calling "vintage" didn't really sound all that good, either....at least live. Jimmy Page's studio sound was great, but
his live sound left much to be desired.

[LoKi]

I dunno how sold I am on 'vintage' or 'relic'ed' or any of the sorts of things that seem to get people off these days.

All of my favorite tones came from people who were using gear that was new to them at the time. Its kinda hard to say Jimmy Page was using a 'vintage' 59 Les paul when the thing wasn't even 10 years old when he recorded Zeppelin 1 with it.

Also, most of my favorite tones came from studio records, which have had all the magic pixie dust and editing, compression, mixing, mastering and effects added posthumously to the actual playing of the guitar.

So what does that mean? Who knows.

To me, it means that somebody who has actual TONE in their hands can play anything and make it sound great. Doesn't matter if the guitar has any mojo, or vintage vibe. Doesn't matter if the amp is brand new off the factory floor or was hand built by some guy in his garage.

Players play, collectors collect, tinkers 'tink', and the rest of the world keeps turning.

[ReverendJWblues]

Originally Posted by LoKi

I dunno how sold I am on 'vintage' or 'relic'ed' or any of the sorts of things that seem to get people off these days.

All of my favorite tones came from people who were using gear that was new to them at the time. Its kinda hard to say Jimmy Page was using a 'vintage' 59 Les paul when the thing wasn't even 10 years old when he recorded Zeppelin 1 with it.

Also, most of my favorite tones came from studio records, which have had all the magic pixie dust and editing, compression, mixing, mastering and effects added posthumously to the actual playing of the guitar.

So what does that mean? Who knows.

To me, it means that somebody who has actual TONE in their hands can play anything and make it sound great. Doesn't matter if the guitar has any mojo, or vintage vibe. Doesn't matter if the amp is brand new off the factory floor or was hand built by some guy in his garage.

Players play, collectors collect, tinkers 'tink', and the rest of the world keeps turning.

Jimmy didnt use the les paul on Zep 1..........was a Tele.

[ReverendJWblues]

When u find some of that magical pixie dust coud ya ship me some. I wanna take a bath in it.

I agree Players play.......collectors collect.........tinkerers tinker.....
Me I'm gettin old, I wanna do it all. Man if I only had some magic dust.
JW

[LoKi]

I'll let you in on a secret... pixie dust? Its COMPRESSION.

But I know what you mean.