When did the best Gibson guitar era stop ?

[fjgaston]

Gibson made real impressive guitars in the late 50's, good choice of wood part, correctly glued with animal glue, etc.
My precise question is when did they stop doing so good quality guitars ?
If I bye a 66 Les Paul or SG will it sound as good as a 59 ?
When did they change their building methods ??

Thanks a lot for reading me.

I'm sorry, I'm french and don't write English very well but french forums sucks

[BCRGreg]

If you find a 66 Les Paul, show it to us.

[Mr Bones]

[BCRGreg]

HAHAHAHA!

Your english is better than mon francais, mon frere!

[Harpozep]

General consensus is by '60 the Les Paul came to an end. That is a belief held by a lot of people, though not necessarily true.

The '61 SG/Les Paul is considered quite good though.

The actual Les Paul style came back in '68. The '68 & '69 models are highly revered too since it is thought Gibson used a lot of leftover late '50's parts.

Most folks have traditionally shunned the Les Pauls made in the '70's then '80's, and now early '90's, if one is to read all that is out there. Since Gibson was sold a couple of times, some different methods of construction have come and gone through the years.

The truth is a LOT of Les Pauls from all eras are garnishing praise from a lot of corners. The ones with the larger volute were shunned like lepers by many, but some people now really like them especially since this "feature" adds strength to the fragile headstock.
Go try Les Pauls and SGs from any era and if you like one, buy it. There are gems from most years.

Lots of variety in neck sizes too. You really have to play them.

[shotgunlew]

Good info thanks for the info bro!

Originally Posted by Harpozep

General consensus is by '60 the Les Paul came to an end. That is a belief held by a lot of people, though not necessarily true.

The '61 SG/Les Paul is considered quite good though.

The actual Les Paul style came back in '68. The '68 & '69 models are highly revered too since it is thought Gibson used a lot of leftover late '50's parts.

Most folks have traditionally shunned the Les Pauls made in the '70's then '80's, and now early '90's, if one is to read all that is out there. Since Gibson was sold a couple of times, some different methods of construction have come and gone through the years.

The truth is a LOT of Les Pauls from all eras are garnishing praise from a lot of corners. The ones with the larger volute were shunned like lepers by many, but some people now really like them especially since this "feature" adds strength to the fragile headstock.
Go try Les Pauls and SGs from any era and if you like one, buy it. There are gems from most years.

Lots of variety in neck sizes too. You really have to play them.

[idlewild south]

There are three categories of Gibson buyers-the vintage guys,the I want a Gibson because my hero plays one,and the rest of us.Read between the lines folks.

[fjgaston]

Originally Posted by idlewild south

There are three categories of Gibson buyers-the vintage guys,the I want a Gibson because my hero plays one,and the rest of us.Read between the lines folks.

For me, only sound really matters (although a beautiful flamed maple top is nice too). I played fender vintage instruments 61 and 63, before CBS bought fender, those guitars are really good, there is a great sustain, you feel like there is no limit for your sound
I liked those fender guitars but gibson's mahogany warm sound is really my favorite that's why I'm looking for a great sustain mahogany gibson and I'm asking you when the building technic changed (when Gibson was sold) as a comparison with pre CBS/post CBS for fender.
In france we hardly find vintage instrument and I may have to buy it in the US without testing it before that's why I may have to buy it via Ebay or something.
Thanks a lot for your fast answers

[mojofilter]

hey there FJGASTON !
if you have that kind of loot, I would think about flying to the good old U.S. and go to one of the vintage guitar shows ,and you wont regret your decision,cause your talking (BIG BUCKS)here /and it would be an investment worth the trip! good luck keep us posted on your decision.

[fjgaston]

Originally Posted by mojofilter

flying to the good old U.S. and go to one of the vintage guitar shows ,and you wont regret your decision,cause your talking (BIG BUCKS)here /and it would be an investment worth the trip!

It sounds like a good idea ! I never heard about such a thing !

I want to buy a good sounding vintage Gibson but not a 59 Les Paul, rather a les paul junior or melody maker. It is not a so so big investment.

[Frutiger]

I'd say the actual 'Golden Period' is up to 1964 for all models. Later 60's models are still very good instruments up to 1970 (including the late 60's Les Paul reissues (gold top & custom). Then lots of structural changes took place (3 piece necks (mahogany then maple), volute, banded bodies etc...

There are great guitars from all periods, late 60's SG's, 70's customs, even if some of them feel like they're filled with cement. Heritage 80's are wonderful guitars etc...

Seek & ye shall find.

[J S Moore]

Quality at Gibson was considered high until late 65 or early 66, shortly before Ted McCarty left. Too much expansion coupled with a change in employee training.

[fjgaston]

I read in the forum the quality decreased when Gibson was sold to Norlin (1969 I think !?).
Ted Mc Carty seems to be the man who built the strong reputation Gibson still have today.

I really like gibson's sound but my 85 Les Paul Custom don't have enough sustain and the pickup are not expressive enough that's why I prefer soloing on pre CBS Fender for example (but I never played a pre Norlin gibson) It seems I really need a pre Norlin Gibson. Melody makers are not so expensive I may find one.
But I may spend some days in the United states then I may spend some money in guitars (why do I put an "S" on guitar?????)

[LoKi]

Its all about sound and feel. People will claim a certain era is bad if they don't own one from that era. Makes their own feel more 'special' to them. The same goes in reverse. I currently own a Norlin, and a couple post Norlin Les Pauls. I had to cut down my collection to help pay divorce/legal fees *it was either that or lose em anyway!* but I've owned Gibson guitars from almost every era. I had a 63 SG that was pretty damn great, but I've played others that were nasty. I've owned 5 70's Norlin Les Pauls and kept 1. *should have kept 2, but money talks*.

The Norlin I still have currently is a stellar example of craftsmanship, tone and playability. It is a flawless guitar, straight out of Kalamazoo. It took me a while to find it, but to be honest, it took me even longer to find a Les Paul made in the late 80's, to mid 90's that was even half as good.

As time goes on, production methods become about the bottom line. Gibson doesn't care so much about their USA production lines when the Historics are selling so well (at insane pricing, no less)... So they cut corners to make more money. Such is the way of business. Doesn't mean they are making shit guitars nowadays, but most people consider anything slightly different to the 'magical formula' to be garbage. *as if the type of glue by itself really affects tone... ect*

I disagree. I've played and owned great Gibson guitars made since the dawn of Gibson electrics. I've also played plenty of bad ones.

[shotgunlew]

I aggre completely!

Originally Posted by LoKi

Its all about sound and feel. People will claim a certain era is bad if they don't own one from that era. Makes their own feel more 'special' to them. The same goes in reverse. I currently own a Norlin, and a couple post Norlin Les Pauls. I had to cut down my collection to help pay divorce/legal fees *it was either that or lose em anyway!* but I've owned Gibson guitars from almost every era. I had a 63 SG that was pretty damn great, but I've played others that were nasty. I've owned 5 70's Norlin Les Pauls and kept 1. *should have kept 2, but money talks*.

The Norlin I still have currently is a stellar example of craftsmanship, tone and playability. It is a flawless guitar, straight out of Kalamazoo. It took me a while to find it, but to be honest, it took me even longer to find a Les Paul made in the late 80's, to mid 90's that was even half as good.

As time goes on, production methods become about the bottom line. Gibson doesn't care so much about their USA production lines when the Historics are selling so well (at insane pricing, no less)... So they cut corners to make more money. Such is the way of business. Doesn't mean they are making shit guitars nowadays, but most people consider anything slightly different to the 'magical formula' to be garbage. *as if the type of glue by itself really affects tone... ect*

I disagree. I've played and owned great Gibson guitars made since the dawn of Gibson electrics. I've also played plenty of bad ones.

[fretwire]

Some of the Norlin era Deluxes are bringing pretty decent coin for what they are. I had an '81 that was an exceptional sounding guitar. Those guitars from that era are often frowned upon, but they had some good attributes...decent rosewood boards for one, and one piece mahogany backs. Try to find a production LP today that doesn't have multiple piece backs and not drilled full of holes under the cap.

[fjgaston]

Well I have a 1985 Les Paul Custom. It sound great (better than most of the very modern Gibson) especially when it is plugged into a Marshall tube amp
But I think I can have a better sound, a better sustain, more dynamic (I'm gonna buy some hand wound PAF replica Valve Art Technology by TubeAmpLord).
I may have a chance to play a 59' Les Paul Burst. I don't know witch sensation I will feel but I heard so much about that guitar ...

[Eggy]

In my personal experience I've found that Gibson guitars swing from great to rotten no matter what year they were made in (my experience however hasn't allowed me to try a 50's LP yet though).

You just need to get out there and make it your mission to play as many as possible. I'm sure after working your way through 50 or so you'll come to the conclusion that some are great and others aren't. Most members here are well aware of this situation and do not judge guitars purely on manufacturing year alone. If you came back and said "I've found a 1992 and I really like it" then everyone would just presume that you'd scored one of the good ones.

There are so many variables with Gibsons. The quality of the wood used coupled with the fact that they have so much "hands on" work done to them means that almost no two guitars are the same.

For me personally Gibson's best guitars were all made before 1964.
After that they stopped using nickel hardware, introduced a narrower nut width and the 14 degree headstock angle making guitars that looked and felt insignificant to their predecessors. I know collectors and players alike that won't even consider a guitar made after 1964 irrelevant of it being a good sounding or playing instrument. The classic period is called classic for a reason.
People who own '65 or later guitars have perfectly good guitars, but the BEST guitars were made before then.

[marklp69]

Originally Posted by Eggy

There are so many variables with Gibsons. The quality of the wood used coupled with the fact that they have so much "hands on" work done to them means that almost no two guitars are the same.

In my quest for a good historic, I'm finding this to be VERY true. It can almost seem like each guitar was made by a different company when it comes to feel, tone and playability.

[Wooderson]

fjgaston: before buying another Les Paul or modifying your Custom, my advice would be to play your Custom and see if you like the way it sounds unplugged, played with no amplifier.

If your Custom sounds good with no amplifier, then experiment with pickups and electronics until it sounds the way you want when played through an amplifier.

If your Custom doesn't sound good unplugged (you said it lacks sustain), there are numerous modifications you can make to improve the unplugged tone (for instance, a locking tailpiece or stainless steel tailpiece studs), and you should start there. These modifications are much cheaper than a new guitar or even new pickups.

Anyway, in every era, Gibson has made some great guitars, some lousy guitars, and some guitars that were decent but could be improved. That includes 1958-1960.

[fjgaston]

Originally Posted by Wooderson

If your Custom doesn't sound good unplugged (you said it lacks sustain), there are numerous modifications you can make to improve the unplugged tone (for instance, a locking tailpiece or stainless steel tailpiece studs), and you should start there. These modifications are much cheaper than a new guitar or even new pickups.

I didn't know hardware was so important ... where may I find those parts ?

I decided to build my own replica (even if I am only a beginner in guitar building) let there be rock !!!

here is my thread

[Wooderson]

There is a company called "Tone Pros" that make a lot of these parts, and there are also many others. Start there, also there are many many threads on this and other forums on different Les Paul modifications.

The trick is not to get too caught up in the hype, but let your own ears be the guide. In France this may be a bit more difficult since the internet may be all you have to go on.

[mrkenny]

I think Gibson is presently making some of the best guitars they have ever made. Years from now, I feel, we will look back at this time as being very special.

[Robster]

Originally Posted by mrkenny

I think Gibson is presently making some of the best guitars they have ever made. Years from now, I feel, we will look back at this time as being very special.

I totally agree! Gibson (at least the Custom Shop) is really putting out some remarkable guitars right now, and I do believe that in 20 years or so, they'll look back at this period as one of Gibson's greatest.

R

Originally Posted by Robster

I totally agree! Gibson (at least the Custom Shop) is really putting out some remarkable guitars right now, and I do believe that in 20 years or so, they'll look back at this period as one of Gibson's greatest.

R

The new guitars maybe good instruments in their own right but they'll never compare to the classic guitars made prior to 1964. The woods most manufacturers use nowadays are kiln dried and are inferior tonally to naturally air dried woods that have been seasoned for many years. That's the stuff quality guitars are made of.

[meth91]

There are some that say it stopped back in the early 60's, and they have a point viz. the type of woods used. Personally, I actually own a late '50's Black Beauty Custom - a miracle guitar that will go to my children after my demise. Nothing I have ever played sounds like that guitar - it just sounds like ME whenever I pick it up - so much character. However, I also have a Norlin-era 79 Tobacco Sunburst Deluxe that is a very, very sweet guitar. Those mini-humbuckers sound just right on certain songs. The point is - there are no BAD years, per se. You will need to play as many as possible to find 'your' Paul. It's a lot like cars I think: some are made on Wednesday and some are made on Friday.

[Harpozep]

Originally Posted by meth91

There are some that say it stopped back in the early 60's, and they have a point viz. the type of woods used. Personally, I actually own a late '50's Black Beauty Custom - a miracle guitar that will go to my children after my demise. Nothing I have ever played sounds like that guitar - it just sounds like ME whenever I pick it up - so much character. However, I also have a Norlin-era 79 Tobacco Sunburst Deluxe that is a very, very sweet guitar. Those mini-humbuckers sound just right on certain songs. The point is - there are no BAD years, per se. You will need to play as many as possible to find 'your' Paul. It's a lot like cars I think: some are made on Wednesday and some are made on Friday.

Sounds like a winner combo there. Post some pics of your gear when you get a chance. I'd live to see a ear late '50's BB

Plus,

[djd100]

Faber locking hardware is really good too (German).

Originally Posted by Wooderson

There is a company called "Tone Pros" that make a lot of these parts, and there are also many others. Start there, also there are many many threads on this and other forums on different Les Paul modifications.

The trick is not to get too caught up in the hype, but let your own ears be the guide. In France this may be a bit more difficult since the internet may be all you have to go on.

[fjgaston]

I will change my hardware but first I have just changed my strings I used to have 10 - 46 strings, I now use 11 - 52. What a change in the sound !!!!
That's incredible !!!!
More sound ! more sustain ! everything I was looking for !!!