Backing plates.

I asked this question on the OTHER forum in the Vintage section, and was scolded for using the wrong section!! I put forth that VINTAGE Les Paul owners would be far more likely to know the answer than any other!

Not concerned with the screw hole placement here....only size and shape. I know that the Les Pauls I have owned from the 80s and up have the same, interchangeable backing plates. The Historic backing plates, or the USA backing plates are not the exact same size and/or shape as the 1952-1960 backing plates. So when did they change? Was it 1968, 1970, 1974, 1980? Screw holes notwithstanding, when did the pattern for the cavity plates change.....can I buy 1977 backing plates to fit a a 1959 Les Paul?

They wanted me to go to the Sunburst Pub to ask, but just how many people who do not OWN a vintage Les Paul even know the plates differ at all?

I am so tired of their not being helpful, just because the question is not purely a vintage one!! I answer any question I can, in any section!!

[lp59aholicDon]

Kink, This isnt solid info but some good speculation
I would say that the change came from Kalamazoo, to Nashville Guitars, So plates from any 60s LP's would most likely fit better ,

I am getting so much conflict on this. Some say the routings changed in mid 50s with the GTs, and all after that fit (except screw holes) some say it happened in 1968. And your idea is thoughtful too! Kim from HM says a Historic will fit a 1959 (except screw holes) Buzzy made some for me that were fashioned from a 50s set and they are close, but the Historics are a no go. It would be nice to have a rundown on when the body routings changed...mid 50s, 1968, 1980? One gentlemen offered this, 50s on top, 68 on bottom.
This is consistant with my experience. Kim of HM suggests the change happened in mid 50s....the expert on LPF suggests that all 52-60 are interchangeable.

No matter, all I know is Historics will not work for mine...only vintage will.

[Spicoli]

Im not exactly sure when they changed shape, I have always heard it was 68

I think it was 68 as well.

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by kink56

I think it was 68 as well.

Hi Kink, To my knowledge there are two different '50s sizes ,'52 to '58
gold top backplate was identical to '58 to '60 backplates except for about
0.050'' extra on the bottom edge on the later plates. These plates are all
punched out on a press tool and made from ''rolled '' plastic. I should add that
I've been told very late plates were routed but i've never seen any myself.
The most noticeable difference came in '68 when shape and hole centres
changed , early ones being rolled plastic and later ones being moulded.
After that I don,t know but hope this helps. One thing we've learnt is
never go over to the ''dark side'' ,stay this side with the Rev, the Clown,
the Flick and the Donster.
PS it seems to me that the later '50s tool was made opposite hand to the early '50s as the ''shear angle'' is underneath on the early plates and on the
top face on later ones.The asymmetrical shape meant it couldn't be flipped over.

Thank you!! So, in any case a Historic set will not fit either version of the Vintage LPs? (screw holes not a factor) I am pretty sure that all 68 and up are the same fit. I KNOW all 1980 and up are.

That is interesting that they would cut from the other side in mid 58, making it nessessary to route the cavity lip differently.....planned or a mistake?

Finally we are getting somewhere....and to think the hailed "expert" did not know this!! He said his 1960 backing plates fit all his vintage Goldtops!

Those here may find the thread over there interesting reading.

[single cut 54]

That is interesting that they would cut from the other side in mid 58, making it nessessary to route the cavity lip differently.....planned or a mistake?



Kink ,no ,the cavity lip stayed the same ,apart from getting slightly bigger
as the years went by[maybe due to router template wear, as cavities definitly increased slightly and outer body size seems to decrease over the years]The switch hole was drilled, so it stayed the same.Gibson just used the new sized plates ,chamfer side up instead of it being down as on the first
type.



the first photo shows the earlier brown type ,note shear angle at bottom and
c/sunk holes on top




the second photo shows a later black plate ,note chamfer on top and c/sunk
holes on top.
I'm sorry if I've caused confusion but it's hard to explain unless you have
these components in hand. later plates can be fitted in earlier routs but they are very tight and normally wedge themselves in.

[single cut 54]

Hope this shows the size difference between early '50s plate and later '50s
plate




Red line is later plate,black line is earlier.Hope this helps .
The difference measures approx 0.050'',and all holes line up.

[jimi55lp]

The 1952 has smaller rear plates with the same hole lay out and shape, just 3/32" smaller on both rear cavity covers. I also believe that a 1968 will not fit a 1953 thru 1960 special or sunburst, but I can't say what fits or doesn't fit on LP Customs, since I've never tried switching one.

[single cut 54]

Originally Posted by jimi55lp

The 1952 has smaller rear plates with the same hole lay out and shape, just 3/32" smaller on both rear cavity covers. I also believe that a 1968 will not fit a 1953 thru 1960 special or sunburst, but I can't say what fits or doesn't fit on LP Customs, since I've never tried switching one.

Jimi ,now you've said that ,I can vaguely remember someone telling me that before.Have you got any of these plates and do you know if they are punched out on a press tool or routed to shape on a '52

[jimi55lp]

My guess would be that the 1952 covers were possibly routed, but I don't have a set for my 52' yet, and don't know anyone with a 52' to look at. I agree that wheter their punched out or routed, they were identical in the fact that the 1954 brown covers I bought and my 1955 Specials black covers have the same chatter marks on the edges with a line on the top edge in the same place, as if Gibson was using a jig or a stamp to produce the same size covers.

Thanks for everyones help here on this matter. The backing plate issue is much more complicated than I had imagined!! All I want is some cheap plates that would fit a 59 burst!!


http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/vint...ackplates.html

[DucRyder]

Why not just make your own if you want cheap? =)

Originally Posted by DucRyder

Why not just make your own if you want cheap? =)

If I give you a template, can you make them?