Poll: Moore or Montrose who should keep it??

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by eric ernest

I would be willing to be any MONETARY claim on that guitar is going to be what the guitar was worth when it was stolen, NOT what it it is worth today.

PARTICULARLY if an insurance claim was paid out on it. It would be the property of the insurance company and Ronnie would most like have to silent bid, sue, or negotiate to get it back....But hey, paying back the insurance company what they paid out in 1974 wouldn't be a problem!

This is probably true. Montrose would be better off trying for just the guitar back. For some reason I doubt anyone insured guitars like this back in 1972. Back then a burst wasn't a big collector's item worth the money it is today, just the best guitar to get if you could find one.

fletch

[The baron of norsworthy]

i was going to vote that non of them should have it they should give it to me free of charge

[stinger]

Originally Posted by Fletch

Legally the guitar belongs to Montrose. End of story. If for any reason it doesn't fold out that way it is because of a legal technicality, ie. jurisdiction, statute of limitations, inability to serve papers, etc.

The notion here that a person has any remote bit of entitlement to stolen property because they have had it for a certain amount of time, regardless of how aquired, is utterly silly and completely ludacris... It would be a shit-assed world if that were the case, think about it.

I'm just glad some of the people here aren't my neighbors. (Hey fletch, can I borrow your lawnmower? )

fletch

100% spot on. If something is stolen and later found it should always be returned to the owner

[b-squared]

Does he have a receipt?

BB

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by b-squared

Does he have a receipt?

BB

It was sold to him by J. Giels for $750 in 1972. I'm sure if there is no reciept from the time, J. Giels taking the stand in court will cover the ownership question quite sufficiently.

fletch

[Liam]

Wow, so they weren't cheap even by 1972. IIRC you could by an OK used car for $750 back then, so priced much like a used historic nowadays.

[rick13]

Giving it back to Montrose because that's the right thing to do....what a load.
Rick

[Emerald]

I was looking for this link before....

YouTube - Gary Moore Jazz Intro Live

YouTube - Gary Moore Jazz Intro Live

hope this whole stupid thing (imo) goes away...
Emerald

[Mark H]

If it is indeed the guitar, the person that had it stolen, they should get it back!
We had a break in here at my shop, loosing a $8000 Snap-On scanner and more, it IS my scanner, no matter who buys it off the low down, dirty thief later. Its my scanner!

Its his guitar! Im sure it hurt his music after the rip off as loosing my tools hurt mine.

The guy with the guitar now...well thts a sticky question....did he get a smokin deal (aka had an idea it was hot?) Has he ever been ripped off...well he should know how it feels then!!

Someone offered me an HP lap top for $200 bucks last week, I need one, BUT I knew it wasn't right, and someone was hurtin over the loss of that thing. I ain't no angle but whats right is whats right!

Give it back, if its his.

[billy]

Originally Posted by Mark H

If it is indeed the guitar, the person that had it stolen, they should get it back!
We had a break in here at my shop, loosing a $8000 Snap-On scanner and more, it IS my scanner, no matter who buys it off the low down, dirty thief later. Its my scanner!

Its his guitar! Im sure it hurt his music after the rip off as loosing my tools hurt mine.

The guy with the guitar now...well thts a sticky question....did he get a smokin deal (aka had an idea it was hot?) Has he ever been ripped off...well he should know how it feels then!!

Someone offered me an HP lap top for $200 bucks last week, I need one, BUT I knew it wasn't right, and someone was hurtin over the loss of that thing. I ain't no angle but whats right is whats right!

Give it back, if its his.

Yes, but when Gary Moore bought it... he bought it in good faith off a respected dealer, he had no idea that it was hot. It's like you going into a guitar shop today and buying a second hand guitar, getting a receipt etc... to your knowledge completely legal and normal purchase of a second hand guitar.... but then 20 years later someone comes along saying.... hey thats my guitar i owned it for a few months over 30 years ago, give it back... what would you do???

Its an unfortunate situation and both Gary and Ronnie are victims....

[GooCart]

I find the insurance issue very interesting. I'm pretty sure Montrose got paid by the insurance company back in '73 or whenever it was. And if that's the case isn't the insurance company the legal owner of the guitar?

[Emerald]

I agree with Billy both are victims here, I just think it is a pitiful situation, because I am a huge Gary Moore fan (through thick and thin), I have always been admittedly biased it's true, imo totally irrelevant opinion, leave sleeping dogs lie. To me it's like OJ searching from golf course to mansion, to club, looking for his wife's murderer..I don't see a history of an earnest search for this guitar previously, I'm sorry, we have all had losses in our lives..there are more important issues in the world that's for sure. Gary didn't make out like the bandit he is supposed to have over Greeny's sale I have an inkling, so these comments like (he made all that money on Greeny, so he should give Stripe back) are groundless. Gary gave away to creditors, medical providers, tour promoters, ect, probaly a lot of doss, not to mention HM tax department!
Emerald

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by GooCart

I find the insurance issue very interesting. I'm pretty sure Montrose got paid by the insurance company back in '73 or whenever it was. And if that's the case isn't the insurance company the legal owner of the guitar?

I'm pretty sure he did not get paid; otherwise why would he be trying to get it back? Back then it was only worth a tiny fraction of what it is worth today. And people did not insure them. I seriously doubt it was insured or that Montrose got reimbursed.

[The ConGREGation]

Possession is 9 tenths of the law, if it was purchased without the assumption it was hot and it has been circulated an not stashed all these years ,then if Gary could resell it to Montrose for today's fair market price....

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by guitarsz

Possession is 9 tenths of the law, if it was purchased without the assumption it was hot and it has been circulated an not stashed all these years ,then if Gary could resell it to Montrose for today's fair market price....

see first sentence of post #54 so I don't have to type it again

fletch

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by guitarsz

Possession is 9 tenths of the law, if it was purchased without the assumption it was hot and it has been circulated an not stashed all these years ,then if Gary could resell it to Montrose for today's fair market price....

See post #54.

Poll: Moore or Montrose who should keep it??

If possession is 9/10 of the law, then I suppose someone has the right to steal one of my signature guitars, and suppose that artist dies the next day and the value of his signature guitars goes through the roof, a month later this guy can sell it back to me for twice as much as it was worth when he stole it because possession is 9/10 of the law? I don't think so.

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

See post #54.

Poll: Moore or Montrose who should keep it??

If possession is 9/10 of the law, then I suppose someone has the right to steal one of my signature guitars, and suppose that artist dies the next day and the value of his signature guitars goes through the roof, a month later this guy can sell it back to me for twice as much as it was worth when he stole it because possession is 9/10 of the law? I don't think so.

right on, brotha

fletch

[River]

Originally Posted by Fletch

right on, brotha

fletch

You just want to borrow my weed-whacker.

Yes, this is "just" Wiki, but it applies:

Possession of stolen goods is a crime in which an individual has bought, been given, or acquired stolen goods some other way.

Overview

In the U.S. and most other countries, if the individual knew the goods were stolen then it is usually prosecuted as a misdemeanor or felony, depending on value of stolen goods. If an individual knows about themselves having possession of stolen goods from another state, then, according to numerous federal laws, it is prosecuted as a federal crime. If the individual didn't know the goods were stolen, then the goods are returned to the owner and the individual is not prosecuted. Though there are often exceptions, because it is not easy to prove or disprove simple knowledge.

[JimmyAce2006]

I wonder what year this guitar was made - pic is from 1974:

[iheartriot18]

Montrose.

[zplapplap]

Originally Posted by guitarsz

Possession is 9 tenths of the law...

This has no basis in law.

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

I wonder what year this guitar was made - pic is from 1974:

I believe this is the replacement burst he bought after the one Gary Moore has illegal possession of was stolen. I bet this one was watched much more carefully...

fletch

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by zplapplap

This has no basis in law.

yup. first sentence, post #54.

fletch

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by River

You just want to borrow my weed-whacker.

yup. I want to borrow your lawnmower.

fletch

[Fletch]

yup.

[lexluthier]

Look at it this way, if it was your burst that was stolen, my guess is that you would want it back.

[JimmyAce2006]

Originally Posted by Fletch

I believe this is the replacement burst he bought after the one Gary Moore has illegal possession of was stolen. I bet this one was watched much more carefully...

fletch

Well said! I think I might like the top on this one better. Looks cool. The coloring is good too. I wonder how much it has faded since that time.

[stinger]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

I wonder what year this guitar was made - pic is from 1974:

I am not certain but I think it may be a '58.

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by JimmyAce2006

Well said! I think I might like the top on this one better. Looks cool. The coloring is good too. I wonder how much it has faded since that time.

yup again

[The_Sentry]

They should have a headcuttin' duel for it. Televise it...winner by vote gets the Paul. Seriously....they'd both win out of the situation that way....(even if someone lost, both would still show off some awesome chops and in turn would drive up a bit of demand for their respective catalogs.)