Ramble On - isolated guitar track

[Sterling # Sound]

Very cool, very insightful.... how often do you get to hear Jimmy Page's LP tone totally naked? The interesting thing to me is the noodling and tuning before this channel is edited into the finished track. Also note the whistling feedback. Sounds like a T-Top to me here already, not sure if that was a later modification.

Led Zeppelin - Ramble On (Guitar Track 2) - YouTube

Led Zeppelin - Ramble On (Guitar Track 2) - YouTube

[Sterling # Sound]

And the quite brilliant... solo overdub - with wah!

Led Zeppelin - Ramble On (Guitar Track 3) - YouTube

Led Zeppelin - Ramble On (Guitar Track 3) - YouTube

[Liam]

T-top would have been quite a while after.

Sounds great actually, much thinner than most would expect from the sound of the whole song.

Liam

[Sterling # Sound]

Originally Posted by Liam

T-top would have been quite a while after.

Sounds great actually, much thinner than most would expect from the sound of the whole song.

Liam

Yes, quite thin. Very wiry... thin strings anyone?

[RobP]

Cool...thanks for sharing!

[planks]

Good interesting stuff! Thank you for the post!

[HarryT]

Jimmy Page playing? NO! But not a bad overdub.

[Sterling # Sound]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Jimmy Page playing? NO! But not a bad overdub.

What makes you so sure?

[Monstronaut]

Sounds like page to me. So is this likely to be his custom?

[hoss]

Should be his Telecaster

[carydad]

Isolated guitar tracks should be reaaaaallly popular soon. Axe fw 6.0 due out today.

[HarryT]

Again, nice try, but this is definitely NOT Jimmy Page.
Sorry, but the vibrato is like a fingerprint and therefore especially telling.

[TnT~55]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Jimmy Page playing? NO! But not a bad overdub.

Some of the Led Zeppelin II multi-tracks were leaked recently. This includes, Ramble On, What is and What Should Never Be, Heartbreaker, Whole Lotta Love, and of course Ramble On. This is in fact Jimmy Page, it would be hard to fake the tracks.

EDIT: Here are some other Examples

Bass for Heartbreaker...you can hear the drums and guitar back in the mix, but there are no vocals.

You Tube

You Tube

Robert Plant Heartbreaker.

You Tube

You Tube

Ramble On guitar track 1.

You Tube

You Tube

[VonPrikler]

If we can't even tell whether he is playing a Tele, or a humbucker Les Paul, on this track, I would say that pretty much blows up any ideas we had about what vintage Les Pauls sound like on record.

[River]

Regardless of who played on that, if it were real, it would be only one of at least four guitar tracks on that piece. Anyone who's multi-tracked would attest, I believe, that perfect solo tone and perfect one-of-many tone are not the same.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by VonPrikler

If we can't even tell whether he is playing a Tele, or a humbucker Les Paul, on this track, I would say that pretty much blows up any ideas we had about what vintage Les Pauls sound like on record.

He's playing a guitar with two volume controls. The neck pickup is turned down, and he switches to it at the end of the chorus guitar part. Probably not a Telecaster.

Liam

[Sterling # Sound]

Supposedly this was the first album where Page played his Les Paul? I hear a Les Paul but the loud guitar in the chorus part does sound a bit like a Telecaster. Then again Page always claimed that a Tele into a loud Marshall sounded like an LP....

Me I always like how well the springy wiry guitars combine with the heavy drums on LZ's first albums. Add to that the middy velvety bass and the soaring high vocals. Great mix.

[TnT~55]

Originally Posted by Sterling # Sound

Supposedly this was the first album where Page played his Les Paul? I hear a Les Paul but the loud guitar in the chorus part does sound a bit like a Telecaster. Then again Page always claimed that a Tele into a loud Marshall sounded like an LP....

Me I always like how well the springy wiry guitars combine with the heavy drums on LZ's first albums. Add to that the middy velvety bass and the soaring high vocals. Great mix.

This would be the first album that features his #1 Les Paul, which I believe was purchased in April of 1969 from Joe Walsh. He did own a 1960 custom prior to this album and the first album which can be seen in the Royal Albert Hall footage.

Page confirmed in an interview that he used his #1 and a Marshall amp for the Heartbreaker solo and Bring it on Home. Anything else as far as I know is up to speculation.

[woolenmammoth]

For all the hoopla surrounding PAF's on this board makes you wonder if anyone has ever heard a set...

If you cant make that sound with a set of PAF style pickups you might consider chasing another dragon because to my ear thats a fairly text book example of what my expectation for PAF's sound like. If those arent PAF's you certainly can make exactly that sound with them... Exactly. (I recommend skatterbranes)

The facts as best can be assembled are this:

This is one of the tracks on LZ2 that was recorded in NY, this record was tracked everywhere and unfortunately mixed by "that" guy. Work visas for British citizens in the US were *very* difficult to come by and there is a well known history of an "artist exchange" program with american bands working in britian and british bands working in america. Ahmet Etregun has spoken on camera to this on several occasions, however it is usually in reference to "Disreali Gears" which was recorded under identical circumstances. As such, in those days, bands did not get on planes to spuriously make recordings on their whim. They'd tack recording sessions on days off from scheduled tours and "sneak" it in on their very short work visa (usually granted only to honor the scheduled tour dates).

If that is not Page's LP that he played on the '69 tour in America, then it is likely not his guitar at all, in which case it can be anything. There's no way he was dragging around an extravagant backline on their second tour (earning nothing) when the items declared on the carnet would have to be spread evenly amongst the entire bands backline. All logic dictates it's either a) a recording of his backline for the tour or b) a recording of whatever gear was laying around whatever studio they were working at. While it might not be the hiwatt, if I had to, I would bet everything on it being his les paul.

Another thing to consider, unlike today, a recording studio in 1969 did not have piles of amps and instruments laying around. Yes, they all had "the amp in the corner" but a large collection of gear as is somewhat standard in many places today would have been absurdly unusual then.

I have worked on many projects where a band comes in to record on a day off tour, typically a scheduled day off before or after a gig and these sessions have a vibe of their own, the band is in the groove of their tour and there is traditionally limited exploration in terms of lets plug in 7 guitars and 5 cabs and see what we get. They usually set up, bang it out, and take off, then return to labor on overdubs once the tour is over. These sessions to me have always felt more like rehearsal recordings more than anything else as the band typically is deep into working out their set and its often hard to switch gears from screaming mind blown fans monday night to cranky and disinterested recording engineer tuesday afternnon...

If you look at their touring schedule on their website, LZ2 NY could have been recorded between the 28-30 January but I had always thought that ramble and bring it on home were from the second US tour in the summer, working on the record in early June. My money is on Ramble On tracking in June of '69. I wasnt there, but this is the best bet.

Liam nails it, the rhythm track is definitely a guitar with two volumes, for obvious reasons so completely obvious its not worth the time to debate it... Only one type of switch makes that tell tale click...

The first record was all tele, it was also recorded in one day if anyone cares. LZ2 is the first appearance of a LP. George Chkiantz is the real hero on LZ2.... Poor guy *STILL* hasnt gotten his proper due.

Short answer, its a les paul.

[woolenmammoth]

Originally Posted by TnT~55

THe did own a 1960 custom prior to this album and the first album which can be seen in the Royal Albert Hall footage.

the bbc rah footage is from January 1970, after the release of the second album (october 69).

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Sterling # Sound

Supposedly this was the first album where Page played his Les Paul? I hear a Les Paul but the loud guitar in the chorus part does sound a bit like a Telecaster. Then again Page always claimed that a Tele into a loud Marshall sounded like an LP.....

And he isn't wrong. A good Tele sounds like a Junior with some of the testosterone and vitriol removed. So does a good LP Standard.

I think Woolenmammoth is on the right track (pun not intended) with this.

And anyone thinking it's not Page - too all over the place yet great sounding to be anyone else. Total genius in my book.

Liam

[woolenmammoth]

Originally Posted by River

perfect solo tone and perfect one-of-many tone are not the same.

no truer words have ever been spoken, red hot chili peppers blood sugar sex magic is the argument ending example of this and a great teaching tool for people learing to mix. Solo ANY track on that record, and its the worst recording of a guitar, kick drum, vocal, bass that youve ever heard, anywhere, ever. Put them all together and that mess translates into one of the most superbly tiered records ever mixed, IMO. Everything has its own place but none of those sounds would be pleasing on their own.

anyone doubting whether this is Page playing the tracks linked in this thread needs to spend more time with the records and develop their listening skills...

These tracks might have found their way to the internet recently, but this stuff has been around for a long long time. I was handed this stuff at the first studio I worked at in LA in 1993.

[deepblue]

It's sloppy and the isolated tracks make no sense, but it's Page and blended together it sounds amazing. It shows Jimmy's genius.

[Sterling # Sound]

Just listened to the tracks again, I agree it must be a LP. This makes an easy reference if you're a pickup winder. Although there's probably already some desk eq and compression going on, the tone can be studied closely. Easier than to take that from a live RAH performance for example.

[Sterling # Sound]

Originally Posted by TnT~55

Bass for Heartbreaker...you can hear the drums and guitar back in the mix, but there are no vocals.

The bass has vibrato on it! Never heard that before. Sounds like a little Fender combo amp or similar.

[Liam]

The bass track is AWESOME. Shows off JPP's skill as a producer, as the bass is really compressed, and then adds warmth to the guitar track in the mix in a way I'd never been able to isolate on the recording. I never knew it was that fuzzy though!

You can also hear the way that JPJ has the skill and experience to keep landing the bass on the kick drum, even if it means getting ahead or behind the beat. These guys were inventing rock music as we know it while recording these tracks, it's great to hear some of the tricks inside the recordings.

Liam

[Liam]

Originally Posted by woolenmammoth

<snip> All logic dictates it's either a) a recording of his backline for the tour or b) a recording of whatever gear was laying around whatever studio they were working at. While it might not be the hiwatt, if I had to, I would bet everything on it being his les paul.<snip>

To me it sounds like it's a fairly clean bright amp turned up very, very loud. It's got a surprisingly big low end that complements the guitars "double tone" bottom end really well. I used to have a 1970 DR103, and if I tried to record a dirty guitar part with it, I'm thinking it would feed back about like that recording. Very likely Hiwatt

Also worth noting - for an ungated recording, there's probably too little buzzzz for it to be a single coil pickup at such high volume, which again points to PAFs.

Liam

[Chilli]

As a hobby musician with little experience of recording studio tech stuff, the comments from more knowledgeable members make fascinating reading. thanks guys.

[gypsyseven]

Who ever that is, JP or anyone else, i really really love that sound!

[Nigel Tufnel's tech]

I believe this is Jimmy.

And I have a feeling it's a Vox not a Marshall.