Vintage parts or not? Let's see how good you are!

[Alex]

Update: They are all repros! Please see post #32 in this thread for more info.

Original Message: For each part listed below, tell us if it's vintage or not. If not, briefly explain why not.

First person to get all the answers correct gets $20 via PayPal.

M69 Rings


Top Hat Knobs


Tailpiece


Thumbwheels


Bushings


Pickguard


Studs


Jack Plate


Sorry if the pics aren't good enough for you to decide, but that's all I've got for now.

[52trapeze]

This reminds me of Boboo. Anyway im not this good. Im just gonna guess all are real! Haha

[Boppy]

Rings - Yes
Knobs - Yes
Tailpiece - No
Thumbwheels - No
Bushings - Yes
Pickguard - Yes
Studs - Yes
Jack Plate - No

My answers are all based on an innate sense of mojo-osity...aka wild guess.
And hey...$20 too.

[tag2]

The M69 rings look right.

The knobs look like too much went into them to make them look vintage. The rust on the pointers is too uniform, so I say no on them.

The rest of the parts look right to me, but I am far from a parts expert. There some VERY good reproductions out there, so this will be interesting.

[randelli]

get rid of those old things! Let's splurge and get some fresh stuff

The Jerk - SNAILS! - YouTube

The Jerk - SNAILS! - YouTube

[Zenzeypher]

Rings - yes
Knobs - no
Tailpiece - No
Thumbwheels - yes
Bushings - Yes
Pickguard - Yes
Studs - no
Jack Plate - yes

[Fletch]

None of it's real.


fletch

[JJ Blair]

The part I need to see on the M69s that is the deciding factor, I can't see. I would need to get a better look at the funnels.

The bottom mould marking on the tailpiece is right for '50s, but I can't see grind marks.

Something is fishy with the knobs. There shouldn't be green hairs inside the post hole. A post would have rubbed that away. Those pointers are way too rusty.

I need more detail on the rest of the plastic, like striations, router grind marks edge stamping.

No on the ferrules. Outside ring is too small and beveled.

I'm voting no on the posts. The wear seems unnatural.

Thumbwheels feel wrong to me. The grooves don't look like the grooves on any of my '50s thumbwheels.

[nicolasrivera]

Somehow all of them look like Area59 repro parts......

So i say all of them are repros

[goodvibes]

They are all genuine vintage les paul parts

[TKOjams]

Rings - Yes
Knobs - No, the casting for the pot shaft inside the knob looks rounded at the top.
Tailpiece - No, looks too rounded on the outter edges.
Thumbwheels - No, center hole not tapered on the top edge.
Bushings - Yes,
Pickguard - No, the corners where it goes around the pup ring are too perfect.
Studs - No,the threads go up the shaft too far.
Jack Plate - No, corners are too square.

[GuitarMechanic]

Pickup rings No
Knobs No
Tailpiece Yes
Thumbwheels No
Bushings Yes
Pickguard Yes
Studs Yes
Plate Yes

I can't exactly explain why on the "No" just a feeling I suppose

[nuance97]

none are real.

[InfiniteeZ]

Rings - No, The Aging looks intentional to me.
Knobs - Yes
Tailpiece - No, again the aging looks intentional to me
Thumbwheels - Yes
Bushings - Yes
Pickguard - No, reminds me of a historic one too much
Studs - No, again looks intentionally aged
Jack Plate - No, ^^^

These are just wild guesses

[rockstar232007]

I don't have a PP account, but from what I can see, none of them are vintage?

- The rings/PG/jack-plate look too perfect
- The knobs/pointers look too overly-aged
- The furrells, tailpiece, and thumbwheels definitely look like repros (note the perfect staggering of the string holes in the TP. The originals were drilled by hand, so they were usually not parallel to each other)
- The studs look to be too short/thin

That's about all I can say, without actually holding them in my hands, so...

[Oranjeaap]

Originally Posted by Fletch

None of it's real.


fletch

Thats my guess aswell

[RevWillie]

Originally Posted by Fletch

None of it's real.


fletch

[Lefty Elmo]

I'm in agreement, they all look like newer repro parts to me.

[Curlymaple]

None of the above.

It's all THP parts from Japan.

[LPPILOT]

nice fakes

[Fletch]

Originally Posted by Fletch

None of it's real.


fletch

Well since I was the first to say none of it was real, and didn't say why as instructed, I'll do that now so maybe I can be the first to say none is real, and why...

1) The rings are not real, the aging looks fake. It looks like they were rolled across course sandpaper and then smeared with axle grease or poop or something

2) The top hat knobs wouldn't likely be corroded inside where the shafts go if they were real.

3) The pointers have no marks where the nut was tightened down, and there is absolutely no trace of nickel anywhere, as if they were dipped in something to make them rust.

4) The tailpiece looks wrong at the cutout where the stud goes on the bass side, it is not perfectly round. Even though they were hand shaped originally it doesn't make sense that that part of the casting would have been messed with... just an educated guess. Could also be that the picture makes it look that way. Also it looks filed on after it was plated, and looks like it was dipped in something to relic it.

5) The thumbwheels look too thick and appear to have no marks from ever being used.

6) The bushings I just have a hunch on that they are fake. I have a bunch of real 50's bushings and a pair of DMC bushings and they are virtually the same.

7) The pickguard I have a hunch is fake because the bracket next to it looks new and never used. It also just looks new.

8) The studs look like they were dipped in acid or something, nothing on them looks shiny, not even in one little spot somewhere.

9) The jackplate is a hunch, since the pictures are really not of the quality to make this type of determination.


Also, the odds of Alex having all these parts on hand to photograph seems slim. He was asking for advice on the authenticity of a 50's PAF Goldtop and 50's Special from MLP a while back. I believe the outcome was he never bought them and they were/are still floating around for sale somewhere. Seems like if Alex needed expertise on those guitars he wouldn't suddenly be posting pics of a bunch of vintage parts here for our perusal with a $20 carrot to get us to respond.

Now there is the off-chance that Alex did make the plunge and bought himself a real 57-60 LP std. and he is showing us the parts here. But it seems like that would have been bigger news from a guy who owns a guitar forum like this, and if he took the guitar this far apart he'd likely also have pictures of the bridge, tuners, and PAFs in this thread. You've got it that far apart, why not go all the way?

What is MOST likely is a vender such as DMC or Area 51 or Retrospec or whoever it is sent these parts to Alex on a promotional basis, and he is showing them to us in this thread posing the question he's asked. The expected reaction from us might be "wow! they are all real!!! where did you get them from?" At which point the bomb drops that said advertiser makes all this stuff and here's where you can get it all for yourself...

But then again, I could be wrong and it wouldn't be the first time...




fletch

[rykus]

Nice Fletch, not only why the parts look fake but the psychology on why they are probably fake as well!

Good thing for people to consider when a deal is too good! how did such and such type of person acquire such an item and how with the internet and other info source still manage to underprice it.

[Actinic]

There are a lot of thing you cannot tell from a picture alone. You aren't able to rely on touch, smell, or measurement tools. That's why Ganzler has to examine a guitar and its components first hand:

When the guitar finally gets in my hands, I start by giving it a thorough once over - it's amazing to me how many issues I catch within the first 30 seconds! I then start at the top of the headstock and work my way down - looking, feeling (often with my eyes closed), smelling (very important!) and recording each and every detail - finish, color, contours, hardware, and condition. The biggest difficulty for most people in authenticating a guitar as real or not; or as "repaired/refinished/parts replaced" or not, is the ability to look at an instrument from both the "micro" as well as the "macro" viewpoint(s) simultaneously.

Guitar Buyer Magazine - Joe Ganzler - Ganzler Incorporated

The obvious test tool for the rings is a blacklight. The other verifications require a 2X or 10X loupe and a caliper. Send all these parts to my house, and I will verify whether they are real or not. I will make sure that the vintage parts, if any, are lost.

[nuance97]

Originally Posted by Fletch

...the odds of Alex having all these parts on hand to photograph seems slim.

fletch

My thoughts exactly. I mean the rings alone, if real, go for $12,000.

[nicolasrivera]

First to say Area59 parts!!

[Matt_J]

Rings - No
Knobs - No
Tailpiece - Yes
Thumbwheels - No
Bushings - No
Pickguard - Yes
Studs - No
Jack Plate - Yes

[sasquatch]

1st examles are 'faked' vintage
2nd examples/to the right or directly below (tailpiece) are the actual vintage part
Pickguard looks to be 'faked' vintage.

[nicolasrivera]

Alex, how long will this go?

[Actinic]

Alex has not responded because no one got all 8 guesses right. So I will add my votes (yes= vintage, no= not):

Ring- No
Knobs- No
Tailpiece- No
Thumbwheels- No
Bushings- Yes
Pickguard- Yes
Studs- No
Jack Plate- No

I used a Ouija board and Dreidel to make my choices, meaning Helen Keller could have gotten the same answers, assuming she had the braille versions.

[69 Goldtop]

Guess, only thing real; are studs and bushings.