Guitar Grounding Common Misconceptions?

[onehippie]

i have a feeling these pics are going to be helpful thanks fellas

[b3john]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Now single coil pu's are basically just an RF (coil) antenna and are actually capable of picking up radio signals and other electronic signals that induce noise.

And "noiseless" singlecoils attempt to mimic the noise canceling function of a humbucker, but in the space of a singlecoil pup (which come in various sizes: Strat, Tele bridge, Tele neck, P-90, etc.).

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by b3john

And "noiseless" singlecoils attempt to mimic the noise canceling function of a humbucker, but in the space of a singlecoil pup (which come in various sizes: Strat, Tele bridge, Tele neck, P-90, etc.).

Yeah I think a lot of the "noiseless" single coils and Fender SCN's are really just stacked humbuckers. I have a variety of un-potted Humbuckers and vintage style single coil pu's in my guitars and they all are really very quiet. The one that gives me the most Buzz/Humm is the P-90 in my LP Jr. Clone. It' properly grounded, and sounds really good, but add a little gain on the amp and it just gives off the more noise than my other pu's. After all P-90's are just big single coils and this one is wound just over 8K.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by b3john

And "noiseless" singlecoils attempt to mimic the noise canceling function of a humbucker, but in the space of a singlecoil pup (which come in various sizes: Strat, Tele bridge, Tele neck, P-90, etc.).

Yeah I think a lot of the "noiseless" single coils and Fender SCN's are really just stacked humbuckers. I have a variety of un-potted Humbuckers and vintage style single coil pu's in my guitars and they all are really very quiet. The one that gives me the most Buzz/Humm is the P-90 in my LP Jr. Clone. It' properly grounded, and sounds really good, but add a little gain on the amp and it just gives off more noise than any of my other pu's. After all P-90's are just big single coils and this one is wound just over 8K.

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Very good Sir Thanks!

Here we go
Original soldering joint from the factory in Japan 1987
Let me know if you need any other Strat pic´s

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Raz59

But anyways, here's the string ground on my relatively nice Samick Stratocaster:

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

Here we go
Original soldering joint from the factory in Japan 1987
Let me know if you need any other Strat pic´s

Thanks for the pics

[onehippie]

gotta remember to solder that.
Jonesy would i use a 40w to heat the claw?
would the springs and screws interfere with heating?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by onehippie

gotta remember to solder that.
Jonesy would i use a 40w to heat the claw?
would the springs and screws interfere with heating?

Yeah you are gonna need to throw some heat on that trem claw to get a good solder connection. 40 watts should work just fine, you should be able to solder it with or without the springs on there.

You might want to take some rough 100-150 grit sandpaper and clean that spot off on the trem where the wires goes if there is any oxidation on the metal that way the solder will stick better. I don't sand the back of the pots but on that trem claw it might help out.

[onehippie]

thanks bro just the info i will be needing as always

[Mookakian]

I don't sand the back of the pots but on that trem claw it might help out.

Is there a reason for not sanding the pot a little?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Mookakian

Is there a reason for not sanding the pot a little?

Yeah normally new pots have a coating on them that helps the solder stick so if you sand it off it doesn't really help you with soldering.

If you have an old pot that has a lot of oxidation on the back sanding it may help, but as a general rule I do not sand the back of pots.

[lukemacauley]

I've actually found the exact opposite Jonesy. I always use a 25W soldering iron, and when I got the new CTS 'True Vintage Taper' pots in, they were brand new and very shiny. However, the solder just wouldn't stick without me sanding the pots.

So, I always give pots a light sand, as in theory it gives the pot a greater surface area for the solder to stick to.

Are you using a 40W iron for soldering to the back of pots?

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by lukemacauley

So, I always give pots a light sand, as in theory it gives the pot a greater surface area for the solder to stick to.

If the soldering iron is hot enough you don´t have to sand for a great solder joint

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by lukemacauley

I've actually found the exact opposite Jonesy. I always use a 25W soldering iron, and when I got the new CTS 'True Vintage Taper' pots in, they were brand new and very shiny. However, the solder just wouldn't stick without me sanding the pots.

So, I always give pots a light sand, as in theory it gives the pot a greater surface area for the solder to stick to.

Are you using a 40W iron for soldering to the back of pots?

Luke I have used 25 watt iron with a chisel tip to solder to the back of the pots but a 40 watt iron works so much easier and really gives a good tight solder joint in a lot less time.

Billy from RS has also repeatedly said that sanding the back of new pots is not necessary, and I don't think you see him doing that in any of his videos.

If you get a chance try a 40 watt iron for the soldering to the backs of the pots and see how that works out for you. I also find that the 40 watt works great for soldering to that big ground lug on the toggle switches as well. You can still use your 25 watt for soldering to the pu lugs and other assembly work.

[lukemacauley]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

If the soldering iron is hot enough you don´t have to sand for a great solder joint

Okay Mr. Pretentious, that's why I asked if Jonesy used a 40W iron for soldering to the back of pots.

And now you're going to tell me that microscopic bits of metal get into the pot and wreck the taper if you sand the back of the pots. Jog on.

[lukemacauley]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Luke I have used 25 watt iron with a chisel tip to solder to the back of the pots but a 40 watt iron works so much easier and really gives a good tight solder joint in a lot less time.

Billy from RS has also repeatedly said that sanding the back of new pots is not necessary, and I don't think you see him doing that in any of his videos.

If you get a chance try a 40 watt iron for the soldering to the backs of the pots and see how that works out for you. I also find that the 40 watt works great for soldering to that big ground lug on the toggle switches as well. You can still use your 25 watt for soldering to the pu lugs and other assembly work.

When I'm back in Scotland I'll be sure to buy one and try it out. Thanks mate.

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by lukemacauley

Okay Mr. Pretentious, that's why I asked if Jonesy used a 40W iron for soldering to the back of pots.

And now you're going to tell me that microscopic bits of metal get into the pot and wreck the taper if you sand the back of the pots. Jog on.

Honestly, i just wanted to point out that some good heat is enough
If you sand the back of your pots in your rigs and they work fine then that´s just another way of doing it.
Whatever works for you.

[lukemacauley]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

Honestly, i just wanted to point out that some good heat is enough
If you sand the back of your pots in your rigs and they work fine then that´s just another way of doing it.
Whatever works for you.

Ah, sorry for jumping on you then like that.

It would look better if I didn't have to sand them, so I'll be looking into the 40W iron.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by lukemacauley

When I'm back in Scotland I'll be sure to buy one and try it out. Thanks mate.

Your welcome Luke. Right now I have a 25w Weller and a 40 watt Weller I keep on the bench and use them as needed depending on what I am doing.

A couple months back I bought a Weller soldering station that is adjustable from 5-40 watts but I have been saving it and it's still new in the box. You might want to look for something like that. You can turn it up to 40 watts when you are soldering to the back of the pots and dial it down to 25 watts for other work. And if you are working on a PCB you can go as low as needed so you wont burn anything up. Just thought I'd mention it.

This is the one I have it was only $42.00 usd, they make some high dollar versions depends what you want to spend.

Weller WLC100 40 Watts Soldering Station for Hobbyist and Do-It-Yourselfers | ToolBarn.com

[jonesy]

The black wire soldered to the volume pot that you see coiled up would run through the body, into the trem cavity and then get soldered to the trem claw.



Just wanted to be clear on how the grounding on a Strat works so I traced the ground path in green. You can see the black wire that comes into the trem cavity and is soldered to the trem claw. The other end of that wire is soldered onto the back of the volume pot and all the pots are grounded together by a wire.



The springs carry the ground to the trem block, the bridge sits on top of the trem block and is screwed to it, then the strings feed through the back of the trem block and run over the bridge saddles. This is how your strings and bridge are grounded back to the wiring controls on a Strat.

[onehippie]

Originally Posted by jonesy

The black wire soldered to the volume pot that you see coiled up would run through the body, into the trem cavity and then get soldered to the trem claw.



Just wanted to be clear on how the grounding on a Strat works so I traced the ground path in green. You can see the black wire that comes into the trem cavity and is soldered to the trem claw. The other end of that wire is soldered onto the back of the volume pot and all the pots are grounded together by a wire.



The springs carry the ground to the trem block, the bridge sits on top of the trem block and is screwed to it, then the strings feed through the back of the trem block and run over the bridge saddles. This is how your strings and bridge are grounded back to the wiring controls on a Strat.

ive reach a moment of clarity Jonesy i think i finally am comfortable about my task
looking back on your notes i get it theres been some helpful info i needed to see got me pondering it all

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by onehippie

ive reach a moment of clarity Jonesy i think i finally am comfortable about my task
looking back on your notes i get it theres been some helpful info i needed to see got me pondering it all

Like someone posted earlier...(Lampens?)

I hear and I forget, I see and I understand, I do and I remember

[onehippie]

true words right on

[weirdotis]

I don't know how I missed this thread. Very informative- thanks for posting!

[Mookakian]

Heres a boggler, if you put too much solder on the back of pots can this create a resistor of some kind, read it over at ANZLF from the administrator, but i question everything, even my sexuality(kidding) Not that theres anything wrong with that

[Buzzerjim]

Originally Posted by Mookakian

Heres a boggler, if you put too much solder on the back of pots can this create a resistor of some kind,

Sorry but thats bollox.....

[peaveywolfgang]

my grounding wire from the bridge to the pot on a Gibson Les Paul Classic has broken at the bridge end so i need to replace it. Do i need to pull the bushings out (totally or just a little) to get a new wire under and press the bushing in on the wire or does the stud screw in deeper than the bushing (the bushing having no bottom) and therefore being sufficient to unscrew the stud to make room for the wire and then screw it back in, pushing on the wire ?

thank you

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by peaveywolfgang

my grounding wire from the bridge to the pot on a Gibson Les Paul Classic has broken at the bridge end so i need to replace it. Do i need to pull the bushings out (totally or just a little) to get a new wire under and press the bushing in on the wire or does the stud screw in deeper than the bushing (the bushing having no bottom) and therefore being sufficient to unscrew the stud to make room for the wire and then screw it back in, pushing on the wire ?

thank you

Normally you would pull the bushing completely out, run the new ground wire and be sure that the bottom of the bushing seats firmly on top of the ground wire. The bushing makes contact with the wire not the stud itself since it is raised slightly. But you may be able to just pull up the bushing far enough to get a new wire under it?

Afterwords you can check continuity with a multimeter to make sure you have a good ground path between the ground wire and the bridge.

[FourT6and2]

Hey jonesy,

Is there a reason why the pots in a guitar aren't wired this way, with the lugs that go to ground connected with the bus wire, instead of being soldered to the pot casings and then the pot casings all connected with the bus? Doing it this way in an amp eliminates ground-loops and reduces background noise. I may try it in my guitar. Because I still haven't been able to get rid of that noise. I suspect a ground-loop is the cause.





Normally, that bus wire is wired up this way (much like in a guitar), where the pot casings are connected and then the lug that needs to go to ground is soldered to the bus. Hello ground loop!





Why not separate the ground connections? The lugs that should go to ground get connected by a bus wire, instead of having them soldered to the casing and then connecting the casings.

[jonesy]

Amps deal with high voltages so grounds loops are in issue as far as generating noise. In guitars there is barely any measurable voltage (milli-volts) at all, so as previously discussed ground loops in guitars do not cause noise or humm like they do in amps.

Guitar wiring has not changed a whole lot in 50 years because grounding to the back of the pots is a simple reliable way to do things. Most all the amps controls and circuits are mounted inside a metal chassis along with the transformers so a universal star ground is commonly used. I highly doubt your noise issue in your LP is caused by a ground loop, it is more likely a bad ground or a partial short that is causing the problem.