The capacitor thread.

[Splattle101]

Mate, I noticed incremental changes and improvements but the H-90s never quite got there. The first re-wiring I had done, I got rid of the coil tap, and just had the H-90s wired as pure P-90s. This, combined with a linear taper tone pot and better caps, helped with the versatility of the tone, but it was still basically crap when I got it up to proper volume.

Last week I bit the bullet and pulled out the H-90s and put in some Tonerider P-90 clones. Tonerider calls theirs H-90 too, but the ‘H’ in their case stands for ‘hybrid’ because it uses hybrid AlNiCo II and V magnets. In the functional sense, though, it’s a pure, evil P-90.

While I was at it I replaced the volume pots with 500 k Alphas. Again, this didn’t change the tone because the pots I replaced were 500 k, but it made the sweep more useful.

The effect of changing the pick ups was immediate and dramatic. This guitar went from being merely nice with lots of promise, to being one of my two favourite axes. I knew I had the combination right when I arrived back in the kitchen at 10:00 P.M. and realised that for the first time I had trouble putting it down. That was a good sign.

cheers,
Splat

[saltydog3317]

Give us a report on those Tonerider Pickups sometime.

[omni]

Originally Posted by alpinestudio

Everybody has their own setup. For example, John Sykes disconnects the bridge tone pot because most likely he thought it sounded better without it.

On that note EVH never used a tone pot either. The tone most people are dying to have that old school brown sound.

[Splattle101]

Not having a tone pot - like EVH - is different to not using it. The reason is that the pots are not true bypass, so even when you have it at 10 it's still in the circuit. Getting rid of the tone pot entirely (or even better, getting rid of both pots!!) gives you a purer signal from the pick up.

This is fine if that's the way you play. Remember, too, that EVH's frankenstein axe only had one PUp, too. He was basically playing with one sound and whatever effects he used, so it wouldn't be hard to EQ the amp to suit that tone perfectly.

On the other hand, if you do more than 'brown', your tone control will be useful. Then it matters what sort of pots and caps you put in there.

Splat

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

Not having a tone pot - like EVH - is different to not using it. The reason is that the pots are not true bypass, so even when you have it at 10 it's still in the circuit. Getting rid of the tone pot entirely (or even better, getting rid of both pots!!) gives you a purer signal from the pick up.

This is fine if that's the way you play. Remember, too, that EVH's frankenstein axe only had one PUp, too. He was basically playing with one sound and whatever effects he used, so it wouldn't be hard to EQ the amp to suit that tone perfectly.

On the other hand, if you do more than 'brown', your tone control will be useful. Then it matters what sort of pots and caps you put in there.

Splat

+1 Right on Splat
Eddies signal chain was basically His fingers-pickup-amp/fx
Wide open sound, nothing to choke off the Tone, I imagine when he rolled off the volume a bit it would take some of the edge off and give him a little variation, making the Brown Tone a little Browner just guessing?

Peace, jonesy

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by saltydog3317

Give us a report on those Tonerider Pickups sometime.

Mate, as requested:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pick...tml#post323025

cheers,
Splat

[Peaceman]

I think i made a bit of an spending error last night,,,

Before having a PROPER read of this thread (and a few others like it) i went on fleabay and bought 3 sets of the luxe repro bee's $42 each set! i didnt realise you can pick up real bee's for less than half that

I'm probably going to buy some real ones anyway so just kicking myself now cos that money could've gone towards pots

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Peaceman

I think i made a bit of an spending error last night,,,

Before having a PROPER read of this thread (and a few others like it) i went on fleabay and bought 3 sets of the luxe repro bee's $42 each set! i didnt realise you can pick up real bee's for less than half that

I'm probably going to buy some real ones anyway so just kicking myself now cos that money could've gone towards pots

I don't think you will be finding any Real 1950's .022 Bees (red red orange) any where near that price range. More like $50-100 a pair depending on markings and voltage size 400v is the most sought after

[Peaceman]

I've been having a search through good old fleabay, (UK and USA) there seems to be so many. I wanted to pick up at least one original set to compare to the repro's when they come through, where would be the best/cheapest place other than hoping for the best on the 'bay?

[maicolp]

look at what i've found in my garage...
an old tube amp!
doesn't work anymore but it's full of these...
what you guys think? worth a try in my R6?

[dwagar]

ALWAYS worth a try. Go for it.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by maicolp

look at what i've found in my garage...
an old tube amp!
doesn't work anymore but it's full of these...
what you guys think? worth a try in my R6?

Make sure those babies aren't holding a charge or they will bite you...
I was working on an old tube amp when I was a kid and it was unplugged like my Dad had taught me. Well one of the caps had a full charge and I shorted across it somehow and it nailed me. That's when I discovered a capacitor could hold a charge some how..

[maicolp]

done
seems a bit muddier down here...
and noticeable just when i'm reaching 0 position on the tone knob....
maybe it's tha cap value?

[maicolp]

also the volume drops a bit

[b-squared]

Originally Posted by Peaceman

I think i made a bit of an spending error last night,,,

Before having a PROPER read of this thread (and a few others like it) i went on fleabay and bought 3 sets of the luxe repro bee's $42 each set! i didnt realise you can pick up real bee's for less than half that

I'm probably going to buy some real ones anyway so just kicking myself now cos that money could've gone towards pots

Those are good caps, my man. No mistake there.

Try them out and see if you dig 'em. If not (which I doubt) you can always sell them here.

BB

[FLICKOFLASH]

ASK JONSEY : The Capacitor Ambassador - Music Gear Forums

[BobX]

Many Many thanks to fine folks who contributed to this thread. I can’t wait to start experimenting.

Peace.

[xGotchax]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I have Fresh Sprague Vitamin Q .033, Sprague .022 "F" and GOODALL .047's for $15 a pair plus plus $3.99 S&H if you find a better deal than that you better scoop em up.

Peace, jonesy

Brother I am in need of capacitors. I need to speak to you about that asap. Actually I need a few things you may have Jonesy. Lets talk......Thank you

[FF_Pedals]

I just got my selection of tone caps in to try out. I was hoping the finish on my Les Paul would be done this week but I probably won't get it together to test these for another couple weeks.



The "Black Beauties" (not sure if they qualify for the title?) are labeled: SPRAGUE .022 - 100 D.C. 194P22391. If anyone has any info on their composition I'd be interested to hear. As a test the Orange drops both read out 0.02169uF on my meter, the black ones read at 0.0227uF and 0.0232uF. I remember reading that if they don't have the solder ball at the end they aren't paper in oil.

The bumble bees are some nice PIO specimens. They were sold as 0.018uF but I think the seller mis-read the black line as grey and they are supposed to be 0.01uF. The all read about 0.0112uF.



Here's the wiring harness with new pots:



The pots are the cheap imports off ebay. DO NOT buy the cheap pots (4 for $1.50 + shipping) unless you like hunting through junk electronics and don't mind fixing them when they break like I do . One of them was broken when I got it, it just kept spinning forever. I got a replacement and it broke too! Oh well, 3 are in good shape and the other is an Alpha long shaft push pull for the coil tap. Alpha is probably import but they don't have the worst reputation.

I can't wait to try this out! The stock Gibson setup in my Studio definitely sounded like shit. I mean it sounded great because it's a good guitar and all but the wiring harness looked like a joke. The stock tone pots were about 330k. I'm replacing with 500k. I've got a bunch of aligator clips so I can swap tone caps easily. I'll keep you guys posted and any info you can cook up on those black caps would be appreciated.

[dennistruckdriver]

So....if a guitar functions at low voltages, then why are these caps...



no good, if they are installed as OE by Gibson?(I think the BIG companies are over-compensating for something...)

Is 'bigger' actually 'better', regarding physical size, and if so, how, then?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

So....if a guitar functions at low voltages, then why are these caps...



no good, if they are installed as OE by Gibson?(I think the BIG companies are over-compensating for something...)

Is 'bigger' actually 'better', regarding physical size, and if so, how, then?

Think of it like this Dennis, correct voltage is really not a factor in guitar circuits, but your capacitor is a "Filter" just like an "Oil Filter". What would you rather use a tiny little bitty filter or a decent sized filter?
IMO Size does matter, with Tone caps anyways
If there was any less filter on that yellow cap it would just be two wires

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by jonesy

....What would you rather use a tiny little bitty filter or a decent sized filter?....

That's an analogy I can understand. In recent years, my dad, my brother and I have all come to own 2005 GMC Sierra trucks with 5.3 liter engines. When my brother went to change his oil and filter, he got all upset because the filter was 'tiny' compared to the old 350 cid engines. Modern engine technology is so much better that the smaller filter is entirely adequate for the cleaner-running new designs. If the smaller filter is 'adequate', and catches all the dirt, then how can the bigger one be 'better',?
Does that make sense relating to guitar caps?
I really want to know.

[siore]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

That's an analogy I can understand. In recent years, my dad, my brother and I have all come to own 2005 GMC Sierra trucks with 5.3 liter engines. When my brother went to change his oil and filter, he got all upset because the filter was 'tiny' compared to the old 350 cid engines. Modern engine technology is so much better that the smaller filter is entirely adequate for the cleaner-running new designs. If the smaller filter is 'adequate', and catches all the dirt, then how can the bigger one be 'better',?
Does that make sense relating to guitar caps?
I really want to know.

Wondering about that too. Wish I could hit a 'thank you button' on a good question!

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by siore

....Wish I could hit a 'thank you button' on a good question!

You just did!

[jonesy]

Well you are filtering frequencies Dennis, caps take out highs etc. so a bigger filter helps to a certain extent. If you look at a lot of the special PIO music caps they are usually pretty "Beefy" looking. PIO caps are made different than those little mylar chiclet caps, but same basic principle.

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by jonesy

....PIO caps are made different than those little mylar chiclet caps, but same basic principle....

Okay, then....how are 'big' caps better than 'little' caps? I'm not trying to stir the pot, but just want to know why I should buy 'big' caps.
Thanks, in advance of your knowledgeable answer.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

Okay, then....how are 'big' caps better than 'little' caps? I'm not trying to stir the pot, but just want to know why I should buy 'big' caps.
Thanks, in advance of your knowledgeable answer.

Well I prefer PIO over any other type of Tone caps, and they are always usually larger than any of the of the mylar, ceramic, poly caps to begin with.

But it's really what's inside that counts more than anything, not how large they are but that does seem to play a factor from my experience

[dennistruckdriver]

Okay....how do 'caps' work?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by dennistruckdriver

Okay....how do 'caps' work?

Basically a capacitor is two metal plates (leads) separated by a dielectric...

Info: What is a Capacitor, and how does it work? - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net

[dennistruckdriver]

That is informative. I would like to see that information in a simpler to understand form so all of us ignoramuses here can understand it.
Why are capacitors important to the functioning of an electric guitar?