The capacitor thread.

[TelefunkenDuncan]

MojoTone's Vitamin T and Dijon caps:

I dug in up to my elbows in capacitors last month working on different circuits on my guitars, and I bought just about one of every value of both the Dijon and Vitamin T caps. The Vitamin Ts are oil and paper, and the Dijon is based on the yellow Mallory caps. I did a lot of A/B comparisons, and there is a difference in sound. The Dijons are very smooth sounding, and MojoTone's site describes the Vitamin T as sounding "sponge-y" and I thought, What the hell does that mean? Somehow, it fits the description. If the Dijon sounds warm and smooth a la late '60s/early '70s, the Vitamin T has more grit to it, in the way of late '40s thru the '50s. Hard to explain, but it's a matter of taste. Both sound great, but I use the Dijons on my Hagstrom Swede's tone controls, and Vitamin Ts on the Swede's odd tone-switch (adding one of two extra caps into the circuit, I prefer a .001μF to add some bluesy grit). I have a .022μF Hovland MusiCap in my Strat, and while it sounds better than the stock green Fender caps, it has no real character and costs about as much as I spend on all of those MojoTone caps combined.

[Tom99SS]

Originally Posted by Fiesta Red

Has anyone compared the Luxe Bumble Bee repro caps versus the Sprague Hyrel/Vitamin Qs? I have a set of the Luxe's and love them but was wondering how well the Vitamin Qs compare.

Thanks!
-Mark

Mark - I actually swapped out the Vitamin Q's for the Luxe Repos. The Luxe Repos sound fuller and more balanced. The Vitamin Q's seemed to favor the treble frequencies more and sounded brighter to me.

Plus the Luxe Repos interact with the tone knob better.

Just my .02

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Tom99SS

Mark - I actually swapped out the Vitamin Q's for the Luxe Repos. The Luxe Repos sound fuller and more balanced. The Vitamin Q's seemed to favor the treble frequencies more and sounded brighter to me.

Plus the Luxe Repos interact with the tone knob better.

Just my .02

Hi, Just curious...What type of wiring configuration are you using, Modern or 50's style?

Thanks, jonesy

[Masa]

I just put Vitamin Q .022 and Goodall .047 caps in my strat. They replaced Jensen PIO caps of the same values. Vitamin Q/Goodall sound tighter. I'll keep them in there for a while, but I'm not sure which one I like better on this strat.

I have a treble booster which I modified. I put .01uf Mullard output cap and switchable .01 and .0068uf input caps. It sounded so good that I bought another one. I got the 2nd one yesterday. I put Vitamin Q caps (same values) this time, and it sounds tighter than the Mullard caps. Mullards sound more airly. It could be the difference in the germaniums, too. They're both NK275, but each germanium sounds different.

I may try bublebees in the treble booster, and see how they sound. I have a feeling mixing Mullard and VitaminQ will sound good in the treble booster.

[wantsa58]

Hey guys, im hoping maybe ya'll can help me out. I have EMG's in my epiphone standard and i like how they sound overall, but on the emg 81 at my bridge, it just sounds WAY, and i do mean WAY, to bright and "thin". This is especially evident when i am playing cleans.

Would replacing the capacitor with a lower value help any?? They are currently a .1 value. Now i know that since these are active pickups they "need" a higher value cap, but would trying something different hurt anything?

Also if its possible what types should i try out? I would love my emg 81 to sound a bit warmer.

Finally i am very happy with the way my emg 85 sounds so would it be ok to just replace the 81's cap?

Thanks for any help, i really have very little knowledge on this subject.

[alpinestudio]

I also have a question. Would switching to better caps give me better tone even though I only play with the volume and tone knob all the way up. I don't really fiddle with the tone knob and just keep it turned all the way up. Thanks!

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by alpinestudio

I also have a question. Would switching to better caps give me better tone even though I only play with the volume and tone knob all the way up. I don't really fiddle with the tone knob and just keep it turned all the way up. Thanks!

No!

[dwagar]

on the other side, if you had a tone you liked better, maybe you would start to use the controls?

[jonesy]

With good Tone caps installed, sometimes all you have to do is roll off Tone to 2-3 and you will find a "sweet spot" that has more warmth and less harsh bite. Playing wide open is one thing, but learning how to "dial-in" your controls for best Tone is an art...
Les Paul would not have asked for Tone controls on an LP if they weren't meant to be used. It still puzzles me how someone would spend $1000-$3000 for a fine guitar and then will not put put out an extra $30 for a pair of Primo Oil caps etc. so their guitar can sound the Best that it can? People spend hundreds on all kinds of foot pedals thinking that will make them sound like Jimmy Page etc..
I just hosted a Wiring Seminar Saturday and had kids 8-13 years old cutting out the crappy little green chiclet caps in their epi SG's and Squire Strats. We installed Sprague Orange Drops, Sprague Q's and GOODALL Oil caps in place of the generic factory caps.
No reason a $100-$200 guitar can't get a little ToneMojo as well...

[Wolf Child]

Originally Posted by jonesy

No Problemo, It's all good Bro ...Now you know what the "Good-stuff" sounds like you will never settle for a pair of Orange drop caps again..lol
ROCK ON!!
Peace, jonesy

I just picked up a '68 Custom VOS that was supposed to have come with CTS pots and Bumble Bee caps but it actually has orange drops. i like the way it sounds now but if it could be better with different caps than i'm in. Suggestions? Please?
I don't know shit about pots and caps. Reading this thread gives me a headache but i'm trying my best to understand it.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Wolf Child

I just picked up a '68 Custom VOS that was supposed to have come with CTS pots and Bumble Bee caps but it actually has orange drops. i like the way it sounds now but if it could be better with different caps than i'm in. Suggestions? Please?
I don't know shit about pots and caps. Reading this thread gives me a headache but i'm trying my best to understand it.

The Original 68' may have had have a pair of Sprague Black Beauties with red lettering 160P's .022M 400v ??? Sometime after that(early 70's?) Gibson Started using the dime size ceramic disc caps marked .02 or 223. Then in 80's I think they went to the little tiny ceramic disc caps marked 223 which are in many new Gibsons today. It may vary from guitar to guitar, but this info is based on guitars I have actually worked on in past years.

Orange drops are not a bad cap, they are polypropylene not Oil. I used to build a lot of replacement harnesses with them until I started using the Oil caps. IMO the Q's and other Quality Tone caps seem to be a little smoother and have what some MLPF members refer to as a more "Vocal Quality".
These are very Close to what the Vintage Bees sound like, but at a fraction of the cost.

If you are Happy with the way you LP sounds don't change just because of that post about orange drops. But...If you are serious about your Tone, then you could always try some other caps and see what all the fuss is about???

A lot of people say, a lot of different things. Best to try things out for yourself then you will really know what works for you or not.

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by alpinestudio

I also have a question. Would switching to better caps give me better tone even though I only play with the volume and tone knob all the way up. I don't really fiddle with the tone knob and just keep it turned all the way up. Thanks!

A little, but not much. Overdriver is right in principle, but most pots are not true bypass so even when you have them on 10 they are still in the circuit along with that cap.

But seriously, I recommend that you try playing around with your tone and volume controls. You may find you need fewer effects, and less crap in your signal path means a better tone, too.

Splat

[tarddoggy]

Originally Posted by jonesy

With good Tone caps installed, sometimes all you have to do is roll off Tone to 2-3 and you will find a "sweet spot" that has more warmth and less harsh bite. Playing wide open is one thing, but learning how to "dial-in" your controls for best Tone is an art...
Les Paul would not have asked for Tone controls on an LP if they weren't meant to be used. It still puzzles me how someone would spend $1000-$3000 for a fine guitar and then will not put put out an extra $30 for a pair of Primo Oil caps etc. so their guitar can sound the Best that it can? People spend hundreds on all kinds of foot pedals thinking that will make them sound like Jimmy Page etc..
I just hosted a Wiring Seminar Saturday and had kids 8-13 years old cutting out the crappy little green chiclet caps in their epi SG's and Squire Strats. We installed Sprague Orange Drops, Sprague Q's and GOODALL Oil caps in place of the generic factory caps.
No reason a $100-$200 guitar can't get a little ToneMojo as well...

brother,thats awesome!!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by tarddoggy

brother,thats awesome!!

Thanks Man, just trying to give back a little of what God has given me
Some of these kids are going to be amazing players etc. they already asked when the next wiring seminar was going to be My 3rd year here at the shop is coming up on Aug. 1st and they are going to set up in my front store window and be the "House Band" for the party that night, should be fun.

Peace, jonesy

[dwagar]

teaching young guys about tone, that's awesome man.

[jonesy]

Thanks Don, Todays kids are tomorrows adults...there was one girl there as well, we installed a mini .022 Sprague Q in her little epi SG
I used to teach martial arts to kids and adults, teaching and sharing is in my blood I guess? Plus working with the kids helps keep me feelin' young, I will be 50 in a couple more years...Lol!

[alpinestudio]

Originally Posted by dwagar

on the other side, if you had a tone you liked better, maybe you would start to use the controls?

Everybody has their own setup. For example, John Sykes disconnects the bridge tone pot because most likely he thought it sounded better without it.

[jonesy]

To each his own true, but Total bypass on a pickup is not the same as using the tone controls to find new and interesting sounds.

If I were going out to a Club to Listen to a Band and the guitarist played wide open on his(or hers)bridge pickup all night, I would be quite Tonally Bored no matter how good he or she was.

On the other hand if I was watching/listening to a Guitarist that was working the dials and selector switch and creating different Tones for different parts of the song etc. I would find Peaceful Bliss in that, and look at that person as someone who is a bit above the rest of the Flock Tone wise.

Forgive me, but who is John Sykes?

[Blues Power]

Yall think i have eunf of these.....Nah

[-Ninja-]

All you need is one set of nice caps. Flush the orange drops where they belong...

[alpinestudio]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

A little, but not much. Overdriver is right in principle, but most pots are not true bypass so even when you have them on 10 they are still in the circuit along with that cap.

But seriously, I recommend that you try playing around with your tone and volume controls. You may find you need fewer effects, and less crap in your signal path means a better tone, too.

Splat

Actually overdrive is quite wrong in this case. I just installed some Vitamin Q's and I play with tone controls and volumes up usually, and it did make a difference and I'm going to say more than a little. The tone is rich, more fuller sounding, and gave a bit more sustain. Vitamin Q's kick ass, and just definitely lives up to the hype!

[alligatorbling]

Originally Posted by -Ninja-

All you need is one set of nice caps. Flush the orange drops where they belong...

hey man... they might not be the best but for what they cost you get a big bang for your buck!

[shotgunlew]

That is why we have been talking~

Originally Posted by jonesy

With good Tone caps installed, sometimes all you have to do is roll off Tone to 2-3 and you will find a "sweet spot" that has more warmth and less harsh bite. Playing wide open is one thing, but learning how to "dial-in" your controls for best Tone is an art...
Les Paul would not have asked for Tone controls on an LP if they weren't meant to be used. It still puzzles me how someone would spend $1000-$3000 for a fine guitar and then will not put put out an extra $30 for a pair of Primo Oil caps etc. so their guitar can sound the Best that it can? People spend hundreds on all kinds of foot pedals thinking that will make them sound like Jimmy Page etc..
I just hosted a Wiring Seminar Saturday and had kids 8-13 years old cutting out the crappy little green chiclet caps in their epi SG's and Squire Strats. We installed Sprague Orange Drops, Sprague Q's and GOODALL Oil caps in place of the generic factory caps.
No reason a $100-$200 guitar can't get a little ToneMojo as well...

[alligatorbling]

Originally Posted by shotgunlew

That is why we have been talking~

especially if you've done the PGreen mod! Oh man i love my tone knobs!

[jonesy]

I try to keep a few caps around as spares myself...

Here is also a pair of .022 Vitamin Q's I Relic'd...

Vintage Tone Kit .047 Bumble Bee, with one of my Vintage style bleed kits...

Sprague .022 200DC 157P Tan Beauties Ready to drop in, Bleed kits included...

And you Gotta have some .015 Q's

[myinstrument]

ok so ive read the post about old organs. what other old electronics may contain wonderful caps??? im a barrel picker when i need to be. i hate to see usable electronics getting discarded when i can pillage them.

[jonesy]

SPECIAL OFFER ON .015 & .022 VITAMIN Q CAPS FOR MLPF MEMBERS BUSINESS CLASSIFIEDS

[Splattle101]

Hey Jonesy,

I just got my Les Paul Classic Antique back after having it re-wired (wood work I’m happy with, soldering less so). Stock it came with Gibson H-90 pickups, treble bleed circuits on the volume pots, and push / pull tone pots, all 500 k. The push pull tapped the H-90s to turn off the extra coil and turn them into pure P-90s. The caps were nasty little orange ceramics marked 223. I suppose they’re meant to be 0.022 uF + or – 30%?

As I said to you, I’ve not been happy with the sound of those pick ups since getting it. They’re too muddy with the slave coil going, and too thin as pure P-90s. In short, they were nothing like the P-90s I’ve used in other guitars.

Anyway, I had the tone pots replaced with good 500 k pots, rewired it 1950s style (with the interactive volumes), and put in the Hyrel 0.022uF PIOs I bought from you. I left the treble bypass circuits in place.

The result?

Superb! The volume controls work now without reducing everything to sludge. The pick ups have actually got some balls now, without being muddy as they were before. I suspect this is because of the difference in pick up loading with the new wiring as well as the new caps.

I’ve only played it through my Classic 50 so far, but tomorrow I get my Super Reverb back from the speaker doctor* and then we’ll really hear what she sounds like!

So, thank you, sir.

Cheers,
Splat

* Brand new Jensen P10R with – get this – a lump of glue on the voice coil that was rubbing!!! I kid you not! The techie was flabbergasted. There was no evidence of heating or distortion, and the spider was fine. It was just a plain, old-fashioned Friday-afternoon job. While they sound great, this doesn’t bode well for quality control…

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

Hey Jonesy,

I just got my Les Paul Classic Antique back after having it re-wired (wood work I’m happy with, soldering less so). Stock it came with Gibson H-90 pickups, treble bleed circuits on the volume pots, and push / pull tone pots, all 500 k. The push pull tapped the H-90s to turn off the extra coil and turn them into pure P-90s. The caps were nasty little orange ceramics marked 223. I suppose they’re meant to be 0.022 uF + or – 30%?

As I said to you, I’ve not been happy with the sound of those pick ups since getting it. They’re too muddy with the slave coil going, and too thin as pure P-90s. In short, they were nothing like the P-90s I’ve used in other guitars.

Anyway, I had the tone pots replaced with good 500 k pots, rewired it 1950s style (with the interactive volumes), and put in the Hyrel 0.022uF PIOs I bought from you. I left the treble bypass circuits in place.

The result?

Superb! The volume controls work now without reducing everything to sludge. The pick ups have actually got some balls now, without being muddy as they were before. I suspect this is because of the difference in pick up loading with the new wiring as well as the new caps.

I’ve only played it through my Classic 50 so far, but tomorrow I get my Super Reverb back from the speaker doctor* and then we’ll really hear what she sounds like!

So, thank you, sir.

Cheers,
Splat

* Brand new Jensen P10R with – get this – a lump of glue on the voice coil that was rubbing!!! I kid you not! The techie was flabbergasted. There was no evidence of heating or distortion, and the spider was fine. It was just a plain, old-fashioned Friday-afternoon job. While they sound great, this doesn’t bode well for quality control…

Your Welcome Splat, Most Excellent...Glad to hear that, I know it Feels good when you finally get things running right. Bet She really sounds really FAT outta the Fender amp If you need anything else just let me know Ok?
Peace, jonesy

[JohnK24]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

Hey Jonesy,

I just got my Les Paul Classic Antique back after having it re-wired (wood work I’m happy with, soldering less so). Stock it came with Gibson H-90 pickups, treble bleed circuits on the volume pots, and push / pull tone pots, all 500 k. The push pull tapped the H-90s to turn off the extra coil and turn them into pure P-90s. The caps were nasty little orange ceramics marked 223. I suppose they’re meant to be 0.022 uF + or – 30%?

As I said to you, I’ve not been happy with the sound of those pick ups since getting it. They’re too muddy with the slave coil going, and too thin as pure P-90s. In short, they were nothing like the P-90s I’ve used in other guitars.

Anyway, I had the tone pots replaced with good 500 k pots, rewired it 1950s style (with the interactive volumes), and put in the Hyrel 0.022uF PIOs I bought from you. I left the treble bypass circuits in place.

The result?

Superb! The volume controls work now without reducing everything to sludge. The pick ups have actually got some balls now, without being muddy as they were before. I suspect this is because of the difference in pick up loading with the new wiring as well as the new caps.

I’ve only played it through my Classic 50 so far, but tomorrow I get my Super Reverb back from the speaker doctor* and then we’ll really hear what she sounds like!

So, thank you, sir.

Cheers,
Splat

* Brand new Jensen P10R with – get this – a lump of glue on the voice coil that was rubbing!!! I kid you not! The techie was flabbergasted. There was no evidence of heating or distortion, and the spider was fine. It was just a plain, old-fashioned Friday-afternoon job. While they sound great, this doesn’t bode well for quality control…

Splat,

I'm new here, but I have the same Les Paul as you (Classic Antique, Guitar of the Week 14). I've been having a difficult time trying to dial in the H-90 pickups. I agree, they are lack luster in terms of the true P-90 tones I'm used to (the late Sean Costello, blues guitarist had the perfect P-90 tone for me - real '54 Goldtop). I've lowered the stock pups, tried to raise them high (like 1/16" from the bottom of the string) and still having issues with getting the neck pup tone to have some character.

The replaced pots, caps and wiring you note in this post, did you keep the H-90s and coil tap with this new work ? How much difference in tone do you think occurred with better caps ?

Thanks in advance,

John