The capacitor thread.

[ISOgoldtone]

I guess I'll chime in on this discussion. I recently purchased my first Gibson Les Paul (a Standard Limited Edition w/ebony fretboard, etc.) and absolutely love it. There are, however a few things that I've been thinking about "upgrading" in my current setup. The main reason I'm doing so is that over the past year or so, I have tailored my rig to suit my American Deluxe Strat, so as you could've probably guessed, it needs some tweaking.

My current setup goes like this:
Les Paul->Petersen Strobostomp Tuner->BBE Boosta Grande Clean Boost->Gibson GA-30RV Super Goldtone Combo.

Before I got the Les Paul, I retubed my amp with a few NOS tubes to help tame the highs on my maple necked strat, namely a RFT 12ax7 in V1, and 2 JAN GE 5751's in V2 and V3. If you've ever used these tubes before, you know that the RFT has very little highs and is easily driven, and the 5751's are quite mellow with more relaxed highs also. It was nearly the perfect combination with my Strat (which is IMO brighter than most Strats.) So I get the Les Paul and now I have to crank the treble on my amp to about 8 on the OD channel and 7 on the Clean channel to get it to the point where it's not overly bassy, and that's just on the bridge PU (Burstbucker Pros.) I NEVER use the tone knob on the neck pickup, because the highs are already very relaxed. Aside from trying some new tube combinations (which I'll likely be doing pretty soon) would it be beneficial to maybe try some better caps and maybe different values?? The stock ones are in it now (.0223s for both the bridge and neck,) and if I'm understanding what I've read so far, putting say a .015 cap in for the neck PU would allow more highs to pass through initially??

One more question that's kind of off subject.........what benefits would I gain if I decided to switch to '50s wiring?? I saw a diagram on the forum that shows both modern and '50s, and mine is definitely modern (obviously I guess.) Anyhow, thanks in advance for any advice!

[eddie_bowers]

It's hard to get a good compromise in this situation, but I ended up putting a higher value tone cap in my strat and then creating a no-load tone pot for my LP as well as going with a higher value (1 meg) volume pot. This helped them meet in the middle a bit.
A better cap will help with the sound when it's rolled off, but wont make enough difference in the sound on 10 to help your situation much.

Then there is always a stompbox EQ that you could use when your playing the Les Paul (what I did for a while).

[ISOgoldtone]

Originally Posted by eddie_bowers

It's hard to get a good compromise in this situation, but I ended up putting a higher value tone cap in my strat and then creating a no-load tone pot for my LP as well as going with a higher value (1 meg) volume pot. This helped them meet in the middle a bit.
A better cap will help with the sound when it's rolled off, but wont make enough difference in the sound on 10 to help your situation much.

Then there is always a stompbox EQ that you could use when your playing the Les Paul (what I did for a while).

I think I may end up just swapping out caps for BOTH guitars eventually. I'd say the Strat actually could probably use it more than the Les Paul, because it's still pretty bright even with the tone rolled back some. A tube swap is also pretty imminent as well. The RFT rocks, and is especially useful when playing my Strat. It gives it a more meaty sound, which I guess was really just my attempt to get more of a Les Paul tone with my Strat! Now that I HAVE a Les Paul, no need for that! It's plenty meaty enough.

Anybody have any suggestions on which caps I should try for the Les Paul?? Like I said before, I'm thinkin' .015 for the neck and .022 or so for the bridge, but I don't really know which brands would be the best price/performance ratio. Any suggestions for a good V1 tube are appreciated as well. If I were just playing Strat I'd just keep the RFT in there, but since I'm playing my Les Paul most of the time now I'd really rather have something with a little less drive initially that's not quite as dark as the RFT. Thanks again!

[jonesy]

I have some smaller Sprague Vitamin Q .015's that would sound sweet in neck tone also some other Oil caps & Q's .033. Goodall .047
Black Beauty NOS 160P's .022 600vdc same inside as the Bees
Let me know if you have trouble finding any...
Thanks, jonesy

[voxac30dude]

im geting a kit from Wymore Guitars and they let you choose the value and company of caps. i have a epi les paul plain top and it's all stock. im wondering if an orange drop .022uf in the bridge would be to bright? also im putting in a .015 in the neck. im a wide open player when im doing overdriven rythem playing. but when i solo i sometimes like to roll off the highs on the bridge or the neck for smooth solo sounds but the sound on my stock epi gets too muddy when i do that. my question is will the cts500k pots and orange drop caps in the kit improve the tone and make it less muddy?

[shotgunlew]

Hey guys I just took apart my grandfathers old ( I mean 1950's ) Short wave radio from knight,( looking for caps ) I found A bunch of bumblebees , except there brown and slighty smaller , and a sprague thats about 1 inch and 3/4 long, The numbers on it are 8mfd-150 vdc? Also the brown bumblebees have all different stripe patterns, where can i decode this at?


chris

[dwagar]

you can find the stripe codes on the net - use a google search

[jonesy]

Hey Don, I sent you an email/PM regarding 50's wiring...

Thanks, jonesy

[xsouldriverx]

hey guys my friend has a really old radio


with a round dial like this


should i convince him to let me take a look inside of it and raid it for caps. it doesnt work he just uses it as decor.

[Smokin' Tone]

should i convince him to let me take a look inside of it and raid it for caps. it doesnt work he just uses it as decor.

No. Restore it. Those old radios are great.

[Paul]

this has a thread for itself but it wouldn't hurt having the link in here

1950's Gibson Electricals


.

[jonesy]

Great Post Paul! Very valuable information and photographs...

Thanks, jonesy

[Paul]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Great Post Paul! Very valuable information and photographs...

Thanks, jonesy

thought it'd be usefull.

[jonesy]

I have been researching the 50's style wiring and found this forum to be a plethora of information and useful player comments regarding that topic. Looking at all the wiring diagrams posted, many by you, I feel I can now build an accurate 50's style harness and stay correct to the traditional ways of wiring.
To be quite honest I was only familiar with the modern LP wiring (forgive me I am but a mere Tele player..lol) and now will be making the 50's style wiring available for anyone that may require a good LP harness. Oddly enough Gibson seemed to use this wiring in the 60's and 70's as well.
I just recently opened up the control cavity of a 1978-79? Les Paul Pro with P-90's and it had the 50's style wiring, metal plate and ground post etc.
Sorry to get a bit off track from the capacitor thread...here this links it...The LP Pro had dime sized Ceramic disc caps, larger than what Gibson is using today.

What can you tell me about that wiring Paul?

Thanks for sharing...
jonesy

[xsouldriverx]

Originally Posted by Smokin' Tone

No. Restore it. Those old radios are great.

hmm i should tell him that but i dont think they want to do anything with it. its been sitting in their basement for at least the past 18 years and it doesnt work, they just keep it around for sentiment. i agree that round dial is a rarity and the wood on it (under the dust) is a beaut

[Paul]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I have been researching the 50's style wiring and found this forum to be a plethora of information and useful player comments regarding that topic. Looking at all the wiring diagrams posted, many by you, I feel I can now build an accurate 50's style harness and stay correct to the traditional ways of wiring.
To be quite honest I was only familiar with the modern LP wiring (forgive me I am but a mere Tele player..lol) and now will be making the 50's style wiring available for anyone that may require a good LP harness. Oddly enough Gibson seemed to use this wiring in the 60's and 70's as well.
I just recently opened up the control cavity of a 1978-79? Les Paul Pro with P-90's and it had the 50's style wiring, metal plate and ground post etc.
Sorry to get a bit off track from the capacitor thread...here this links it...The LP Pro had dime sized Ceramic disc caps, larger than what Gibson is using today.

What can you tell me about that wiring Paul?

Thanks for sharing...
jonesy

variations in the capacitor size hapens through time, its just the evolution of how things are made most of the time comapanys will find a way to make somtheing that will work the same or close enough to it and save materials or labor or just make a more efficient product, the caps in that LP pro probably sound the same as any ceramic caps with the same value but they may be a higher voltage. What i have found with experimenting is that the higher the voltage is the tone seems to get slightly deeper and warmer, thats just through my experimentation.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by shotgunlew

Hey guys I just took apart my grandfathers old ( I mean 1950's ) Short wave radio from knight,( looking for caps ) I found A bunch of bumblebees , except there brown and slighty smaller , and a sprague thats about 1 inch and 3/4 long, The numbers on it are 8mfd-150 vdc? Also the brown bumblebees have all different stripe patterns, where can i decode this at?


chris

hope that helps.

http://www.pickguardian.com/pickguar...ee%20Chart.pdf

[Paul]

Originally Posted by voxac30dude

im geting a kit from Wymore Guitars and they let you choose the value and company of caps. i have a epi les paul plain top and it's all stock. im wondering if an orange drop .022uf in the bridge would be to bright? also im putting in a .015 in the neck. im a wide open player when im doing overdriven rythem playing. but when i solo i sometimes like to roll off the highs on the bridge or the neck for smooth solo sounds but the sound on my stock epi gets too muddy when i do that. my question is will the cts500k pots and orange drop caps in the kit improve the tone and make it less muddy?

YES!! you will notice a great improvement mostly in the way the pots take off volume and tone.they will be mutch smoother and have a more evenly spread gain/loss of volume/tone. hope you enjoy your new setup.

[Paul]

sprague Bumble Bee capacitor color ring decoder.

http://www.pickguardian.com/pickguar...ee%20Chart.pdf

[xsouldriverx]

Originally Posted by Paul

YES!! you will notice a great improvement mostly in the way the pots take off volume and tone.they will be mutch smoother and have a more evenly spread gain/loss of volume/tone. hope you enjoy your new setup.

agreed. i went from the gibson stock 300k to the 500ks and the the roll off was way better and the overall sound was just better.

[WildeStarr]

[ISOgoldtone]

Originally Posted by xsouldriverx

agreed. i went from the gibson stock 300k to the 500ks and the the roll off was way better and the overall sound was just better.

Are 300k pots stock for most Gibsons?? My Les Paul is totally stock (except for the straplocks,) but when I checked inside the cavity all I noticed on the pots was the Gibson logo. Maybe I'll open it up again and take a closer look. Where should I expect to find the value on the pot??

[Paul]

Originally Posted by WildeStarr

lol thx m8

[Paul]

Originally Posted by ISOgoldtone

Are 300k pots stock for most Gibsons?? My Les Paul is totally stock (except for the straplocks,) but when I checked inside the cavity all I noticed on the pots was the Gibson logo. Maybe I'll open it up again and take a closer look. Where should I expect to find the value on the pot??

most stocck pots are 500k sometimes you get odd ones or odd runs.

[-Ninja-]

I just changed the pots in my LP to CTS and the caps to orange drops. After reading this thread, you guys are making me want to get some vitamin Q's or something. I play with my neck tone rolled off a lot, and my bridge rolled back to about 6 or so.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by -Ninja-

I just changed the pots in my LP to CTS and the caps to orange drops. After reading this thread, you guys are making me want to get some vitamin Q's or something. I play with my neck tone rolled off a lot, and my bridge rolled back to about 6 or so.

You might want to try a .015 Cap the neck if you like to play with the controls, it won't get to dark to quick that way. Dwagar seems to prefer those and a .022 in bridge. The Orange drops are far better than what Gibson or Fender uses as stock caps, but not quite as warm as the Q's or other PIO caps. At least you will have a basis for comparison if you do swap them out.

Thanks, jonesy

[-Ninja-]

Thanks, maybe I will give the .015 a shot.

If I am using my neck pup, I have to roll the tone all the way off. That is the only way I can get a smooth tone. If I start to turn it up, even at like 2 or higher, it sounds like my smooth tone stars to break up. It does not sound good to me. I am not sure what is causing it. The 3 guitars I have had have all done it to some extent.

Is there anyway to fix that, and have a smooth tone from 0 to 10 on the tone pot?

Thanks again.

[jonesy]

The .015 will give you as lot more room before that happens..You might want to try using a volume bleed kit? .0022 cap in parallel with 100-200K resistor. Keeps your tone from getting muddy as you roll off volume and may give you a more even taper on volume pots. Won't have any effect on tone controls though per say. IMO Caps and Pots can sound different from guitar to guitar and with other pickups, you need to find what is right for your "Tonal Palette"....

[Paul]

Originally Posted by jonesy

The .015 will give you as lot more room before that happens..You might want to try using a volume bleed kit? .0022 cap in parallel with 100-200K resistor. Keeps your tone from getting muddy as you roll off volume and may give you a more even taper on volume pots. Won't have any effect on tone controls though per say. IMO Caps and Pots can sound different from guitar to guitar and with other pickups, you need to find what is right for your "Tonal Palette"....

100% correct

i have a standard 50's setup on my custom with .022 caps and Dimarzio pots and no problems whatsoever i couldn't be happier. but i'v wired my SG 50's style and the tone dose nothing (might be the cap and the pots) but when i rewired my custom 50's style with the stock electronics there was a great improvement not as good as it is now though.

i'v used .010 caps and .015 caps (cheap ceramic things i got at my local guitar store but still pretty good) and i didn't like how it rolled off the tone wasn't a tonne of effect so i switched back and now those ceramic caps are in my spare parts box.

jsut because .022 caps works for me dosn't mean itll work for you, they probably sound better becase of the pups i'm using or my style of playing.

[xsouldriverx]

Originally Posted by ISOgoldtone

Are 300k pots stock for most Gibsons?? My Les Paul is totally stock (except for the straplocks,) but when I checked inside the cavity all I noticed on the pots was the Gibson logo. Maybe I'll open it up again and take a closer look. Where should I expect to find the value on the pot??

ive read after said date in the '50s that they switched form 500k-300k. but ive heard they switched back to 500ks. my '07 Gibby LP classic had 300ks so i switched them out and the taper/sound is much better. i believe their tone knobs are always 500k unless notified differently. i use hovland musicaps (between those and Vit Qs) .022 value.

pots are audio, NOT linear taper FYI