Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison

VastHorizon · 04-08-2010, 12:20 PM

In an attempt to show whether the difference between modern stock wiring (w/ stock pots and capacitors)
and 50's wiring (500k CTS audio taper pots and real 50's bumblebees .010 uF) actually exists, I made a clip using both.

I hope this might help people who are thinking about doing the mod.

The guitar is a 2007 1958 Gibson Les Paul Re-Issue with the amp set the same.

All knobs are turned to 10 and the bridge pickup was used. All factors were kept the same.

I played Free's All Right Now.

Here are the clips:

Stock: SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads

Bees: SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads

Which one do you prefer? Do you hear a difference? You thoughts?

5F6-A · 04-08-2010, 12:41 PM

so far so god but looking forward to some real bee mojo!!!

Raz59 · 04-08-2010, 03:03 PM

Well now, let's hear those singin' bees!

VastHorizon · 04-08-2010, 03:23 PM

Original post updated!

VastHorizon · 04-08-2010, 03:28 PM

Both were recorded using the same setup but the one with the bees was exported as a slightly louder mp3 file.

River · 04-08-2010, 03:42 PM

I hear what I'd have predicted, very similar difference to what I experienced going to '50s wiring twice (but with no other changes). I liked what I got and stuck with it - imagine you'll be doing the same.

The volume difference does make it hard to be sure what one's hearing, but only as much as does knowing what to expect.

If you've got the software tools, even out the volumes and tell us what they are in reverse!

But yeah, very worthwhile mod and no, your style doesn't suck.

Xavier_32 · 04-08-2010, 03:46 PM

Yeah, after the upgrade it sounds way more open. Definitely a worthwhile mod for anyone on the borderline of doing it or not.

siore · 04-08-2010, 04:08 PM

Volume's uneven. But I gave the bees clip a -3db to have a fair listening comparison.

To my ears at least, the bees have a more rounded tone, without losing the nice chime in the top end (well, maybe it softens it a little, I don't know?). I'm not sure if 'taking off a wet blanket' is a good description, as the 'sampler clip' has more presence to it. But listening to that, I think I need some bees, they're just what I need. From my experience, mylars have a good soft vocal quality I like (albeit too rounded, lacks clarity and sparkly highs), then switching over to k40 PIO's gave me a certain clarity and edge I've never had before, but then I lost some of the rounded tone I liked with mylars, even as I roll back the tone....

Those were nice clips Vast. They may be the middle ground I gotta have.

5F6-A · 04-09-2010, 04:33 AM

I love my bees

cynic79 · 04-09-2010, 07:34 AM

Definitely an improvement in sound from the stock electronics, although it's difficult to say how much of that is due to the pots, the wiring, or the cap.

Did you have the tone and volume controls on your guitar all the way up?

MrRhoads · 04-09-2010, 11:14 AM

Wonderfull improvement with the new gear

Try turning the tone knob to 0 on the neck with your 0,01uF Bee

johnbeloe · 04-09-2010, 11:27 AM

HUGE improvement!

johnbeloe · 04-09-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

Wonderfull improvement with the new gear

Try turning the tone knob to 0 on the neck with your 0,01uF Bee

my secret too... 0,01uf bee on neck...killer woman tone!

dakotajones · 04-09-2010, 01:45 PM

ok...OPINION TIME - without checking these on a meter...which of the following would you prefer for a neck and bridge cap (all bee caps):

.01 10% 400 VDC
.01 20% 400 VDC
.012 10% 200 VDC
.022 10% 400 VDC

MrRhoads · 04-09-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dakotajones

ok...OPINION TIME - without checking these on a meter...which of the following would you prefer for a neck and bridge cap (all bee caps):

.01 10% 400 VDC
.01 20% 400 VDC
.012 10% 200 VDC
.022 10% 400 VDC

You´ll get more opinions if you start a new thread

5F6-A · 04-10-2010, 05:54 AM

0.01 neck and 0.022 bridge

VastHorizon · 04-11-2010, 05:00 AM

Ok, guys. I re-mixed them and here they are again. Same volume and everything else constant.

You can really hear the difference here.

This is my proof that different wiring and caps make a huge difference.

Stock: SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads

Bees: SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads

jonesy · 04-11-2010, 05:26 AM

I just checked out those clips, the stock one was kinda harsh and the Bee clip was warmer and fuller sounding to me. Thanks for taking time to record those differences and making those sound clips. Glad those upgrades worked out good for you

5F6-A · 04-11-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VastHorizon

Ok, guys. I re-mixed them and here they are again. Same volume and everything else constant.

the one with the bees sounds great! how did you set your guitar controls?

jonesy77777 · 04-11-2010, 10:49 AM

Edit, put on some headphones to compare a little better, yeah the bottom end is a little more pronounced and more open with better clarity. It's just a nicer well balanced sound with the bees. I really like that sound alot, can't wait to rig my guitars out with bees. I am putting bees and some LOTB's in my replica, should ring like a bell!!!!!

VastHorizon · 04-11-2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

the one with the bees sounds great! how did you set your guitar controls?

All controls were set to 10.

.

In theory, there shouldn't be much of the difference at that setting but I was
surprised that it was really noticeable.

I have received PM's from members who cannot believe that I did not use a real amp.

phlz_8 · 04-11-2010, 01:10 PM

Nice post here, those bees sound awesome.

VastHorizon · 04-12-2010, 09:54 AM

Alright, guys, I have no other .010 uF to compare with but here's a clip I did today to give you an idea on what the roll-off is like for this setup.

As always, my playing sucks. No excuses here.

Arrangement of clip:

First three parts - Bridge pickup with tone knob set at 10, 5, 0 respectively
Last three parts - Neck pickup with tone knob set at 10, 5, 0 respectively

SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads

Your thoughts?

MrRhoads · 04-12-2010, 12:01 PM

Hey, Great tone i really like it

I also apreciate you´re taking the time to record them

What are you using to record with?
Pedal of any kind?
Congrats to the sticky

VastHorizon · 04-12-2010, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

Hey, Great tone i really like it

I also apreciate you´re taking the time to record them

What are you using to record with?
Pedal of any kind?
Congrats to the sticky

Hello MrRhoads,

I requested BB to have it as a sticky for a while.

Nope, no pedals of any kind. You wouldn't believe the rig I used.

R8 -> Vox Amplug AC30 -> Computer with Audacity recording software

MrRhoads · 04-12-2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VastHorizon

Hello MrRhoads,

I requested BB to have it as a sticky for a while.

Nope, no pedals of any kind. You wouldn't believe the rig I used.

R8 -> Vox Amplug AC30 -> Computer with Audacity recording software

Ok,

Vox amplug huh

sounds great anyway

5F6-A · 04-17-2010, 12:09 PM

those bees sounds fantastic!

fretboarder · 04-18-2010, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VastHorizon

All controls were set to 10.

.

In theory, there shouldn't be much of the difference at that setting but I was
surprised that it was really noticeable.

I have received PM's from members who cannot believe that I did not use a real amp.

i got the same results as you when i changed my caps to paper in oil bees...they do make a diffence when everything is set to ten..

wrc73 · 04-18-2010, 06:02 PM

I just changed the caps and pots in my stock 09 traditional for an RS vintage upgrade kit with the Luxe bumblebee caps and 50's wiring with similar results. I realize the Luxe bees aren't vintage, I know they are surplus russian PIO caps. The mod opens up the tone (aka blanket analogy) while cutting the harshness and ice pick highs. I don't think my Luxe caps are quite as warm as your vintage bees, but amp differences can make a lot of difference as well. I Probably could have saved some money on parts buying elsewhere but the kit is awfully convenient. It's a nice upgrade, not a world changer, but nice.

fretboarder · 04-19-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrc73

I just changed the caps and pots in my stock 09 traditional for an RS vintage upgrade kit with the Luxe bumblebee caps and 50's wiring with similar results. I realize the Luxe bees aren't vintage, I know they are surplus russian PIO caps. The mod opens up the tone (aka blanket analogy) while cutting the harshness and ice pick highs. I don't think my Luxe caps are quite as warm as your vintage bees, but amp differences can make a lot of difference as well. I Probably could have saved some money on parts buying elsewhere but the kit is awfully convenient. It's a nice upgrade, not a world changer, but nice.

try your wiring modern style and it will warm up i prefere it over 50's style wiring..

04-08-2010, 12:20 PM	#1 (permalink)
VastHorizon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7,101 Thanks: 55 Thanked 293 Times in 81 Posts	Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison In an attempt to show whether the difference between modern stock wiring (w/ stock pots and capacitors) and 50's wiring (500k CTS audio taper pots and real 50's bumblebees .010 uF) actually exists, I made a clip using both. I hope this might help people who are thinking about doing the mod. The guitar is a 2007 1958 Gibson Les Paul Re-Issue with the amp set the same. All knobs are turned to 10 and the bridge pickup was used. All factors were kept the same. I played Free's All Right Now. Here are the clips: Stock: SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads Bees: SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads Which one do you prefer? Do you hear a difference? You thoughts? 79standard likes this. Last edited by b-squared; 04-12-2010 at 07:40 AM. Reason: Edited on request of OP...

04-08-2010, 12:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
5F6-A Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sir Titus Salt's Land Posts: 7,678 Thanks: 376 Thanked 471 Times in 113 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison so far so god but looking forward to some real bee mojo!!! __________________ "I never chose the Blues... instead, the Blues chose me"

04-08-2010, 03:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
Raz59 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Western Europe Posts: 1,005 Thanks: 26 Thanked 12 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Well now, let's hear those singin' bees! __________________ ἀ θ ε ό τ η ς

04-08-2010, 03:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
VastHorizon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7,101 Thanks: 55 Thanked 293 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Original post updated!

04-08-2010, 03:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
VastHorizon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7,101 Thanks: 55 Thanked 293 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Both were recorded using the same setup but the one with the bees was exported as a slightly louder mp3 file.

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04-08-2010, 03:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
River V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rural Colorado, USA Posts: 41,469 Thanks: 474 Thanked 557 Times in 62 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison I hear what I'd have predicted, very similar difference to what I experienced going to '50s wiring twice (but with no other changes). I liked what I got and stuck with it - imagine you'll be doing the same. The volume difference does make it hard to be sure what one's hearing, but only as much as does knowing what to expect. If you've got the software tools, even out the volumes and tell us what they are in reverse! But yeah, very worthwhile mod and no, your style doesn't suck. __________________ River Bottom Blues Band - Music Home of the River Bottom Blues Band

04-08-2010, 04:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
siore Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 1,851 Thanks: 116 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Volume's uneven. But I gave the bees clip a -3db to have a fair listening comparison. To my ears at least, the bees have a more rounded tone, without losing the nice chime in the top end (well, maybe it softens it a little, I don't know?). I'm not sure if 'taking off a wet blanket' is a good description, as the 'sampler clip' has more presence to it. But listening to that, I think I need some bees, they're just what I need. From my experience, mylars have a good soft vocal quality I like (albeit too rounded, lacks clarity and sparkly highs), then switching over to k40 PIO's gave me a certain clarity and edge I've never had before, but then I lost some of the rounded tone I liked with mylars, even as I roll back the tone.... Those were nice clips Vast. They may be the middle ground I gotta have.

04-09-2010, 04:33 AM	#9 (permalink)
5F6-A Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sir Titus Salt's Land Posts: 7,678 Thanks: 376 Thanked 471 Times in 113 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison I love my bees __________________ "I never chose the Blues... instead, the Blues chose me"

04-09-2010, 07:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
cynic79 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 4,081 Thanks: 57 Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Definitely an improvement in sound from the stock electronics, although it's difficult to say how much of that is due to the pots, the wiring, or the cap. Did you have the tone and volume controls on your guitar all the way up? __________________ Dressing the Debutantes Facebook Alonetone Some sketches http://soundcloud.com/cynic79

04-09-2010, 11:14 AM	#11 (permalink)
MrRhoads Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SWE Posts: 3,480 Thanks: 229 Thanked 68 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Wonderfull improvement with the new gear Try turning the tone knob to 0 on the neck with your 0,01uF Bee __________________ Proud user of "JonesyBlues Customshop" parts T-Top info read this http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pick...490r-490t.html Alot of good wiring help http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...g-library.html Help on soldering http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...ow-solder.html Capacitor info http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...apacitors.html

04-09-2010, 11:27 AM	#12 (permalink)
johnbeloe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 1,682 Thanks: 113 Thanked 168 Times in 42 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison HUGE improvement!

04-09-2010, 01:45 PM	#14 (permalink)
dakotajones Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: TX Posts: 138 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison ok...OPINION TIME - without checking these on a meter...which of the following would you prefer for a neck and bridge cap (all bee caps): .01 10% 400 VDC .01 20% 400 VDC .012 10% 200 VDC .022 10% 400 VDC __________________ Dakota Jones www.dakotajones.net

04-10-2010, 05:54 AM	#16 (permalink)
5F6-A Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sir Titus Salt's Land Posts: 7,678 Thanks: 376 Thanked 471 Times in 113 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison 0.01 neck and 0.022 bridge __________________ "I never chose the Blues... instead, the Blues chose me"

04-11-2010, 05:00 AM	#17 (permalink)
VastHorizon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7,101 Thanks: 55 Thanked 293 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Ok, guys. I re-mixed them and here they are again. Same volume and everything else constant. You can really hear the difference here. This is my proof that different wiring and caps make a huge difference. Stock: SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads Bees: SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads

04-11-2010, 05:26 AM	#18 (permalink)
jonesy MLP Vendor Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Indiana, USA Posts: 14,310 Thanks: 322 Thanked 1,070 Times in 160 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison I just checked out those clips, the stock one was kinda harsh and the Bee clip was warmer and fuller sounding to me. Thanks for taking time to record those differences and making those sound clips. Glad those upgrades worked out good for you __________________ Email to: jonesyblues@yahoo.com or call 1- 574-249-8816 Professional Guitar Wiring Upgrades & DIY Kits @ jonesyblues.com Aged Guitar Parts, Vintage Capacitors and Wire in my ebay store Jonesyblues Youtube channel GOD ROCKS!

04-11-2010, 10:49 AM	#20 (permalink)
jonesy77777 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 1,578 Thanks: 35 Thanked 64 Times in 16 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Edit, put on some headphones to compare a little better, yeah the bottom end is a little more pronounced and more open with better clarity. It's just a nicer well balanced sound with the bees. I really like that sound alot, can't wait to rig my guitars out with bees. I am putting bees and some LOTB's in my replica, should ring like a bell!!!!!

04-11-2010, 01:10 PM	#22 (permalink)
phlz_8 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: TEXAS Posts: 536 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Nice post here, those bees sound awesome.

04-12-2010, 09:54 AM	#23 (permalink)
VastHorizon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7,101 Thanks: 55 Thanked 293 Times in 81 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Alright, guys, I have no other .010 uF to compare with but here's a clip I did today to give you an idea on what the roll-off is like for this setup. As always, my playing sucks. No excuses here. Arrangement of clip: First three parts - Bridge pickup with tone knob set at 10, 5, 0 respectively Last three parts - Neck pickup with tone knob set at 10, 5, 0 respectively SoundClick artist: VastHorizonMLP - page with MP3 music downloads Your thoughts?

04-12-2010, 12:01 PM	#24 (permalink)
MrRhoads Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SWE Posts: 3,480 Thanks: 229 Thanked 68 Times in 25 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison Hey, Great tone i really like it I also apreciate you´re taking the time to record them What are you using to record with? Pedal of any kind? Congrats to the sticky __________________ Proud user of "JonesyBlues Customshop" parts T-Top info read this http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/pick...490r-490t.html Alot of good wiring help http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...g-library.html Help on soldering http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...ow-solder.html Capacitor info http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...apacitors.html

04-17-2010, 12:09 PM	#27 (permalink)
5F6-A Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Sir Titus Salt's Land Posts: 7,678 Thanks: 376 Thanked 471 Times in 113 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison those bees sounds fantastic! __________________ "I never chose the Blues... instead, the Blues chose me"

04-18-2010, 06:02 PM	#29 (permalink)
wrc73 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 424 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison I just changed the caps and pots in my stock 09 traditional for an RS vintage upgrade kit with the Luxe bumblebee caps and 50's wiring with similar results. I realize the Luxe bees aren't vintage, I know they are surplus russian PIO caps. The mod opens up the tone (aka blanket analogy) while cutting the harshness and ice pick highs. I don't think my Luxe caps are quite as warm as your vintage bees, but amp differences can make a lot of difference as well. I Probably could have saved some money on parts buying elsewhere but the kit is awfully convenient. It's a nice upgrade, not a world changer, but nice. 22Frets likes this.

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