De-Bunking Myths About Capacitors

[siore]

Originally Posted by MrRhoads

May i suggest you give the Green K42Y-2 a try in the bridge?
Jonesy has them and i´m currently using a K42Y-2 0,022uF in the bridge and it´s the best one i´ve ever tried IMO.
IT´s very vocal, musical, really shines in audio (clarity) quality as well IMO.
I´m waiting for a K40 to try in the neck but K42´s really kicks ass IMO

will do man, but gotta try the .022 k40s I just got first. Just can't get around to A/B'ing them just yet as I'm finishing a pedal build. Also heard that the k42's are good, but just a different kind of good from the k40's. After the k40's, I'll be looking to build a stash, don't worry about it! Thanks for suggesting.

[jonesy]

The main difference that I have found between the k40's (silver case)and the k42's (green case) is that the 42's have a more pronounced upper-mid curve to them. I tested both and got slightly different readings which got me curious.

The k40 .022's read about .020-.021 on my meter and that is what I would expect them to read. The .022 k42's only read about .018-.019-ish. They also have a thick coat of green enamel paint on the outside of the case. I was thinking that they may be soviet mil spec, and suspected they were made to run in a high temp. environment like tanks, submarines, missle systems? So I heated one up with a bic lighter while it was attached to the meter and when it got hot it read .021-.022-ish.

The oil may be a bit thicker in the 42's and that would explain the slight variation in Tone. I find the 40's a bit warmer and the 42's more wah like, but they are both great caps IMO.

[homenote]

Originally Posted by SoloDallas

Thanks very much Jonesy.
I had bought today real late 50s BumbleBees for two of my 50s LP conversions.
Had NO idea about many of things you explained. Grateful.

Thank you.

Hey Dal,

If I may, how much were they? Do they have anymore?

Love your bursts!

[SGTV]

Hi Jonsey,

"Even though .022 has been the standard for Gibson .015 and .010 are the choice by many players seeking good Tone and more useful room on their Tone dials".

Would the 0.15 go on the bridge and the 0.10 on the neck in most cases? That first SG kit you sent me has 0.15 and 0.10 and I was thinking about using them on another guitar.

Thanks,

Kevin

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by SGTV

Hi Jonsey,

"Even though .022 has been the standard for Gibson .015 and .010 are the choice by many players seeking good Tone and more useful room on their Tone dials".

Would the 0.15 go on the bridge and the 0.10 on the neck in most cases? That first SG kit you sent me has 0.15 and 0.10 and I was thinking about using them on another guitar.

Thanks,

Kevin

Yes Kevin .015 bridge .010 neck... since bridge pu is normally a little brighter the slightly darker cap is used there. I run .010's on both pickups of my SG with good results.

[Deguello]

Originally Posted by SGTV

Hi Jonsey,

"Even though .022 has been the standard for Gibson .015 and .010 are the choice by many players seeking good Tone and more useful room on their Tone dials".

Would the 0.15 go on the bridge and the 0.10 on the neck in most cases? That first SG kit you sent me has 0.15 and 0.10 and I was thinking about using them on another guitar.

Thanks,

Kevin

That is my set-up (.015 bridge & .01 neck) in my Greco...
I really like the results

the .022's got too muddy when rolled back for that guitar, but they work well for my Epi

[Goldtop75]

Curious... RS Caps. Are these PIO? Does anyone know?

[tazzboy]

The Luxe Radio ones I know are. I don't know about the Jensen's though.

[Indyclone]

Originally Posted by jonesy

It's all good, be sure to let us know how that .015 sounds to you OK?

I liked the .022 the best of the 3 (.015, .022, and .033)... I posted a thread of my work:
Rewiring the ES

[jonesy]

Goldtop-Pretty sure most of the Luxe and Jensen are paper in oil, the black RS caps with the yellow leads I saw on their site are polypropylene. Ask Hillbilly he works for RS and can give you more details.

From the RS website: RS GuitarCaps® feature the finest Polypropylene and metal foil for the truest dynamics and tone

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Indyclone

I liked the .022 the best of the 3 (.015, .022, and .033)... I posted a thread of my work:
Rewiring the ES

Glad you tried several caps and found the one that sounded best to YOU.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Project Hayes

That is my set-up (.015 bridge & .01 neck) in my Greco...
I really like the results

the .022's got too muddy when rolled back for that guitar, but they work well for my Epi

I favor the .010's for my SG

[tazzboy]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I favor the .010's for my SG

Why do you favor .010 caps in your SG?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by tazzboy

Why do you favor .010 caps in your SG?

Like I have said in earlier posts I favor the lower values for several reasons.

1.The .01's give me plenty of color when needed, you don't want your Tone to bassy for Rock and Blues. Still great Jazz Tone though when rolled off.

2. They give me a lot more usable room on the Tone dial without the mud of an .022 From 7-0 with an .022 can be very dark and unusable for the most part.

3. Excellent woman Tone when rolled all the way off, no guessing where to set Tone dial. More of a upper mid wah Tone.

[Goldtop75]

Originally Posted by jonesy

the black RS caps with the yellow leads I saw on their site are polypropylene.

From the RS website: RS GuitarCaps® feature the finest Polypropylene and metal foil for the truest dynamics and tone

Thanks Jonesy, these work great for me! Not PIO? Not a problem!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Goldtop75

Thanks Jonesy, these work great for me! Not PIO? Not a problem!

I have some .022 Sprague 139P "Filmite" caps that look like a large PIO cap but they are actually polypropylene (same as Orange drop 715P) and they really sound really good. And I the Russian T-1's are Teflon and I was surprised by how warm they sounded as well

[tazzboy]

What about the Sprague 413P Orange Drop .022/100v are they any good?

[Goldtop75]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I have some .022 Sprague 139P "Filmite" caps that look like a large PIO cap but they are actually polypropylene (same as Orange drop 715P) and they really sound really good. And I the Russian T-1's are Teflon and I was surprised by how warm they sounded as well

Well, what I did like about them, is how controllable the tones are with these caps. Full on, i get a clear tone, which is very hi-fi like and rather "modern". But I can just roll down the tone a bit, and I get a bit more warmth and "honk". So, it's like having a vintage tone at my disposal, and then some!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by tazzboy

What about the Sprague 413P Orange Drop .022/100v are they any good?

Most all your Sprague caps and other USA made are going to be top notch and are the benchmark in the industry. You have to remember that these were originally intended for amps and other electronic devices so they have different properties designed on those applications. They evolved into use as Tone caps in guitars later on.

You want to watch out for the cheap Chinese and other brand knock-offs of the "Orange Drops" they will be no where near as good as the Sprague caps.

[BrownsBrick]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Maybe not Hilario, I just saw that they have the solid black line on one end and on all the older caps that means ground to that side?

My hovland tone caps have the black line, does that mean they are polarized?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by BrownsBrick

My hovland tone caps have the black line, does that mean they are polarized?

It might mean that they are, check with Hovland for more info? You could always try switching them end for end and see if it makes any difference in the way they sound?

[kluson]

Many Capacitors are Polarized, The most common is of course the Electrolytic, both in through hole and also SMD type, The (Ta) is also polarized and quite common, it is more generally found in power supplies or in DC DC converters where it is now being replaced by Ceramic Multi layer caps , known as MLCC. The drawback with the MLCC is top end cv is only 100uF however there is no need to upsize in voltage or cap value, but there is still a trade off with DC Bias.

To take the point of sounding different in a guitar circuit, the jury is probably out on that it is a passive roll off circuit and in real terms highly unlikely that a sound difference can be heard, It is of course also virtually impossible to prove. We're after all Human beings, we buy some nice caps, they look so cool we get all excited almost wishing them to sound better to justify our indulgence, our mind usually doesn't want us to be disappointed and guess what we're not.
I personally love the look of the caps on these p[pages the replica old wax ones look really cute and even better in person, But I cannot hear any difference between one of our cheap ceramic .022 and a PIO ,022, I can hear a difference when I change the cap value, but that is to be expected.

The company I work for makes in excess 55 billion pieces of Chip Capacitor ( MLCC ) per month, we also produce, ceramic disc leaded, and many other ceramic products I would guess that virtually everyone her on this forum is using our product.

My view on these things like everything else is if you like them buy them and it's not a very big outlay for a bit of fun, and they do look very cool , the jonesy ones are very pretty

enjoy

[siore]

Originally Posted by siore

PIO caps do make a difference. Swapped out .010 mylar caps (green chiclet thingies) for some .010 russian k40 PIO's from jonesy. Just what my neck position needs. More brightness, but jonesy's 'sparkle' term is probably more accurate. Just a tad bit more. But it's exactly what I wanted it to be.

My bridge position has gone from .022 mylars to .015 k40's. Bigger change here, as I changed cap type AND cap value. There's a bit more clarity and aggressive edge to the sound, but I do miss the more vocal qualities of the old cap. I think I may prefer .022's, since I could use more of that roll-off that higher values give.

Anyways, just to cover all bases, I'm gonna test out these .022 k40's that just got into my mail. AT LEAST, if I keep cap type to the k40-y9's, and manipulate the values, I think I can figure out my preference before I muck around with other types.

Swapped it in. Playing through my amp, I liked the .015 k40-y9 for the bridge position (took out the .022 k40 I tried, didn't like it for my guitar). Jonesy makes some sense here people. There's no second guessing where the tone pot needs to be, down to zero is still a good usable tone with a .015 at bridge. While I'm missing that vocal quality, these caps have that snarl to them. I like it too, and rolling off the tone knob gives more of a growl, kinda like a lowmid-heavy kind of aggression to it.

Oh, and I tried reversing both caps. A slightly different sound. I like it better with the outer foil to the tone pot side.

[mojo69]

Myth #4 Does it matter which end of my capacitor I wire up to what, is there a polarity?



Here is where I have a problem. I have experimented enough with bumble bee PIO caps and I notice a different tone on one end compared to its opposite. One way, it sounds clearer, better, especially when turning down the tone knob to 0. You get a better woman tone. Flip it the other way and it sounds more midrangey when you turn it down to 0, not as clear and not as good of a woman tone. I used alligator clips and flipped it over and over again to be sure. But, the tone is different no matter if it is considered a non polarized capacitor.

Has anyone else noticed this? I will test it thouroghly before I solder them in!

[PINKBITS]

Hey Jonesy, have you ever heard of one of these caps before.
Reproduction Cornell-Dubilier "Tubular" .05mfd Vit T?

Got sent one with my new Tele pickups. Sealed with wax which could be interesting know my soldering skills.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by PINKBITS

Hey Jonesy, have you ever heard of one of these caps before.
Reproduction Cornell-Dubilier "Tubular" .05mfd Vit T?

Got sent one with my new Tele pickups. Sealed with wax which could be interesting know my soldering skills.

If it is the ones that I am thinking of I think they are made for mojotone out of the UK, kind of a spin off on the vitamin Q trademark but I don't know much more about them then that to be honest. They are most likely a new production paper in oil cap, metal case, glass sealed ends. Let me know what you think of it once you get it installed

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by jonesy

If it is the ones that I am thinking of I think they are made for mojotone out of the UK, kind of a spin off on the vitamin Q trademark but I don't know much more about them then that to be honest. They are most likely a new production paper in oil cap, metal case, glass sealed ends. Let me know what you think of it once you get it installed

I will mate. It has wax sealed ends though and is just dark looking paper covered in wax. I'll see if I can take a pic of it.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by PINKBITS

I will mate. It has was sealed ends though and is just dark looking paper covered in wax. I'll see if I can take a pic of it.

It just may be a modern pio cap with a Relic'd wrapper?

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by jonesy

It just may be a modern pio cap with a Relic'd wrapper?

I'm sure it's a modern reissue cap. I have just never heard of them. Here's a pic.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by PINKBITS

I'm sure it's a modern reissue cap. I have just never heard of them. Here's a pic.

Similar to what Luxe puts out I imagine, repro type caps.