De-Bunking Myths About Capacitors

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by cooljuk

How are you liking that USA/Russia PIO combo? Do they sound nice together in the middle position or is it for more of a "channel switching" setup? Is that a .010 bee on the bridge? .022 neck, I assume. What pickups? (I'm full of questions this morning, please forgive me!)

It's vintage 50's style wiring. Looks like the .010 Bee is on the neck and looks like an .015 Russian on the bridge. I provided a pre-wired harness without the caps and he installed them himself.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by peterp

A quick update.

It sounds much better and the tone controls are infinitely more usable in terms of controlling the sound without it ever getting muddy.

Hey nice job!

Glad those upgrades with the 500K CTS pots worked out good for you, that stock epi wiring is a nightmare.

[cooljuk]

Originally Posted by jonesy

It's vintage 50's style wiring. Looks like the .010 Bee is on the neck and looks like an .015 Russian on the bridge. I provided a pre-wired harness without the caps and he installed them himself.

Ah thanks. Still working on that first cup of coffee here. Typed my pickups backwards.

I could see how that could make for a nice setup. A little brighter neck and a wolly bridge when you roll back the tone.

[peterp]

Originally Posted by cooljuk

How are you liking that USA/Russia PIO combo? Do they sound nice together in the middle position or is it for more of a "channel switching" setup? Is that a .010 bee on the bridge? .022 neck, I assume. What pickups? (I'm full of questions this morning, please forgive me!)

I did the cap upgrades before upgrading the pots. I would have put bee's in both places, but I couldn't find a 0.015 bee at the time, so I settled for a K40 in the bridge. Both the bee and K40 sound much better than the stock in back and forth testing and they seem to work well together. I don't really hear a different character of sound between neck and bridge.

This most recent update was pots/wires/switch/50's wiring (I probably should have shown the intermediate "before" picture with new caps/epi wiring instead of the full original with stock caps). I wasn't expecting to hear as much of a difference with the wiring/pots/switch as the caps, but really was quite surprised.

Currently I'm using the stock pickups and it sounds great. I've been so happy with the upgrades that I also ordered Sheptone Tributes from Jonesy. I'm probably going a bit over the top for an Epi, but so far it's been worth it. The guitar is my son's. He wants a Gibson, but that's something he has to earn. He's working very hard at music though, so I'm very happy to max out his Epi along the way. I've been reading Sheptones reviews and they've got me giddy about how this thing will sound once they're in.

[peterp]

Here is the final update on the electronics upgrades. I installed the Sheptone Tributes and also replaced the 0.015 K40 with a Bumblebee to match the 0.010 Bee I had previously installed. Both the Sheptones and 0.015 Bee came from Jonesy and he was able to expedite the Sheptone order (normally there is a pretty long lead time). The sound of the guitar is much improved.

When I first put the pickups in, I was fairly haphazard with pickup height (I hadn't adjusted height before) and there was some improvement, but after dialing in the height with guidance from Jonesy and searching MLP forums, the sound is really, really great. I found this thread to be helpful for getting a starting point for height adjustment (An unusual way to adjust pickup height) -- that approach was not well-received in the thread but I found it useful nonetheless.

Many thanks to Jonesy for providing the information, guidance, parts, and support to make this a success. I had never done any significant guitar work before and he was able to guide me throughout the process from beginning to end. This should be the final update since I don't think there's anything left to tweak!

[jonesy]

Glad you and your sons project turned out good. You should post a pic of that LP, I think it turned out really nice the way you have it all set-up now with the extra mods, like copper pu covers, bigsby and custom pick guard

[IndySouthPaw]

Myth #5 R9's Come with Real Bumble Bee Capacitors so there is no need for me to replace them, so why should I?[/COLOR]

No, your R9 came with "Fake" Bumble Bee caps that contain a cheap little poly film capacitor buried on the inside of the pretty little plastic black case with stripes. Gibson does not use Real Bumble Bee caps in their reissues, and they are not even paper in oil capacitors. Luxe Bees are actually Russian K40y-9 paper in oil caps and have a very similar Tone to the Original Bees.

Great Info here Thanks! I am about to buy my first Gibson LP after 15 years of playing semi-professionally (about time right?). Am I better off buying a Standard then putting all of the real components in it and using the extra money toward a new head? I feel that if I got an R9 I would still have to modify it. Any feedback or direction to another area would be great! Thanks!

[IndySouthPaw]

"""Glad you and your sons project turned out good. You should post a pic of that LP, I think it turned out really nice the way you have it all set-up now with the extra mods, like copper pu covers, bigsby and custom pick guard
__________________""""""

I am thinking about doing a similar project for my epi LP and my epi Sheraton. My LP already has pups a SD 59 and SD Jeff Beck model. My Sheraton has 57 classics(+) and a bigsby. I am a natural tone guy and not big into pedals. I like guitar and amp tones. It sounds like replacing the caps to bumble bees is the way to go and the pots. What do I need for maximum control of tone and volume. Where it is not 10-5-0 when I turn the knob? I would like to get ideal setups for each guitar from you. Please let me know. Thanks!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by IndySouthPaw

Great Info here Thanks! I am about to buy my first Gibson LP after 15 years of playing semi-professionally (about time right?). Am I better off buying a Standard then putting all of the real components in it and using the extra money toward a new head? I feel that if I got an R9 I would still have to modify it. Any feedback or direction to another area would be great! Thanks!

Your welcome bro, glad you found some of this info useful.

Some people leave their guitars totally stock, but many find that changing out the pickups, and wiring get them closer to the sound they want. Some players go the other route and change all the hardware tailpiece, bridge tuners etc. because they feel that helps them get their Tone.

I think you need to find an LP with the type of neck and weight you want, maybe even the color you want and go from there. The rest of the components can be changed out if you need to. Sometimes you just pickup a guitar and it feels right or it doesn't even before you plug it in.

By the looks of your username you might be a Lefty, and that will narrow down your choices a bit. Hope you do find the LP that is just right for you.

[IndySouthPaw]

Hey everyone! I just called Jonesy and he is a great guy and super easy to deal with. He is going to rewire/harness my Epiphone LP and my Sheraton with bumblebee PIO caps 10% 500K CTS pots maybe next week. I will have to let you all know how it goes once its done. The forum was correct.....Jonesy knows his tonesy!!!!

[onehippie]

+1

[jcsk8]

Altought this is not a wiring topic, I´ll look for some help. I used this diagram below to wire my lespaul-like guitar. I like how it sounds, but the only problem is that the tones pots doesn´t affects the sound till the pots get closed about 70% of their course. On the initial 70% there is no change, and only in the final 30% they change the sound to a very closed and dark tone. The volume is ok, gradualing working without treble loss. I want to know if I replace the capacitors with a lower value I could change that, as said before, to a more 'usable' room, reducing less on ) position, but also starting the atuation sooner.
The push pulls pots installed for volume are 500k A and for tone 500k B type.

Thanks.

[Raz59]

Originally Posted by jcsk8

...but the only problem is that the tones pots doesn´t affects the sound till the pots get closed about 70% of their course.
On the initial 70% there is no change, and only in the final 30% they change the sound to a very closed and dark tone...

and for tone 500k B type.

The issue you're describing relates to the fact that you're using linear taper (Type B) pots as tone pots. Get some Type A (or "audio taper") pots and use those as tone controls, you'll see that it'll behave just like your volume controls.

Cheers, hope it helps.

[335blues]

Jonesy, Do you sell any of these: "Russian K40y-9 paper in oil caps"? Have you ever used them? Do they really sound like real bees?

[jcsk8]

Thanks Raz59. I tought it has to do with those caps. I have some A type that I removed before. I´ll reinstall them and test it. Normally they sell those pots in Brazil as A for volume and B for tone. Later I´ve noticed that gibson uses A type for all four pots in most of their guitars.

Thanks again.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by 335blues

Jonesy, Do you sell any of these: "Russian K40y-9 paper in oil caps"? Have you ever used them? Do they really sound like real bees?

Yes I have tried the K40's and K42's and several other military surplus caps. The Russian K40-y9's are paper in oil caps, can't say they sound just like the Genuine Bees, but they are smooth and warm. K40's don't have quite as much sparkle as the USA pio caps like the Sprague and Cornell Dublier. Also not as woody as the genuine 1950's Sprague Bees.

Luxe has used the Russian surplus 40y's and several other USA pio caps inside the Luxe Repro .022 Bees.

At this time I only use the USA new old stock caps in all my harness builds because I prefer the way that they sound.

[RC2]

"Myth #5 R9's Come with Real Bumble Bee Capacitors so there is no need for me to replace them, so why should I?

No, your R9 came with "Fake" Bumble Bee caps that contain a cheap little poly film capacitor buried on the inside of the pretty little plastic black case with stripes. Gibson does not use Real Bumble Bee caps in their reissues, and they are not even paper in oil capacitors. Luxe Bees are actually Russian K40y-9 paper in oil caps and have a very similar Tone to the Original Bees."

I'm not really sure if it's sad or just embarrassing to hear that a company would even bother to put the effort and money into producing a "Fake" Bumble Bee cap.

[HOT-BRIT]

Are the same value caps suitable for P90's as the values recommended for humbuckers?
thanks

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by HOT-BRIT

Are the same value caps suitable for P90's as the values recommended for humbuckers?
thanks

I like to use .022 with both P-90's as well as Humbuckers. But remember a P-90 is just a big single coil so if it seems overly bright you could go with a little darker cap like .033 to Tone down the top end YMMV

[Mouse]

Consider this,
there is no way to tell how the capacitor will perform with different pickups of various reactance, if we at top of that have coupling with 20% tolerance potentiometer we have too many wild cards.
Pickups as Inductors have very strange nature, they have inductance, series resistance and parasitic capacitance (classic schema) and guess what, those values are not constant with frequency change. I don't say that one which is promoting ''best cap'' is a fool no no, I'm just saying that it's best thing to try for yourself. try a bunch and make some recordings.It's easy to notice that cap have no contribution to tone once the tone knob is maxed.

With a magnetic material core, inductance can change radically with frequency.This is why pickups and other inductors are different from resistors, their resistance, in this case reactance, is changing with frequencies, it's not constant like in resistors (soo many tone difference with different pickups of let's say 7.8 Kohm)
Which kind of capacitor is going to perform pleasing with your pickup when you turn down the tone potentiometer is hard to say, for most of us is irelavant thing byself cause the generating of frequencies depends mostly on chain- hands/guitar/pickups/amp/speaker and it seems silly to isolate tone by one minor aspect and that is tone capacitor and potentiometer forming -> lowpass filter


However, I like 50's wiring, I like how fast and useful it can change your midd spectra with good nonmaster amp

[Mickzo]

My Epi LP has been rewired as per the 50's wiring. It has Cornell Dublier 0.022mfd PIO caps in the bridge and neck. I want a bit more highs coming through when I turn the tone control down to say 3-4. Will changing the neck cap to either 0.010mfd or 0.015mfd get me what I want?

Also can I mix and match caps, eg: Can I put bumble bees in the neck and Cornell Dublier PIO in the bridge or should I keep both caps the same?

[jonesy]

A lower value cap like .010 or .015 in the neck will give you less mud, better mid curve and a little more useful room on the Tone dial YMMV

Mixing different types of caps on neck and bridge won't hurt anything, use your ear to select which cap sounds best for you. The caps don't have to match, again what works best for you.

[xXxGhotimanxXx]

Great thread. Anyone know what value caps came on the volume/tone pots of the original '81 LP Silverburst?

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by xXxGhotimanxXx

Great thread. Anyone know what value caps came on the volume/tone pots of the original '81 LP Silverburst?

My '79 came with ceramic disk 0.02 caps. Most likely the same for your '81.

[xXxGhotimanxXx]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

My '79 came with ceramic disk 0.02 caps. Most likely the same for your '81.

Thanks for the response. However, I don't have an '81. I have an '09, but thought that perhaps a set of vintage caps from an '81 might help a new guitar sound a bit older...

[ltfullert]

Hi there, I thought I should register and post my thanks to te users of this forum in regards to capacitors. I finally installed a pair of new caps in my LP Trad the other night and it now sounds amazing, especially with the new pedals I've just recieved.

Once again, big thanks!

[shaofu]

thank you for the info...

[GammyBird]

This was a great help...lot of reading but worth it

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by GammyBird

This was a great help...lot of reading but worth it

Originally Posted by shaofu

thank you for the info...

Originally Posted by ltfullert

Hi there, I thought I should register and post my thanks to te users of this forum in regards to capacitors. I finally installed a pair of new caps in my LP Trad the other night and it now sounds amazing, especially with the new pedals I've just recieved.

Once again, big thanks!

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by peterp

Here is the final update on the electronics upgrades. I installed the Sheptone Tributes and also replaced the 0.015 K40 with a Bumblebee to match the 0.010 Bee I had previously installed. Both the Sheptones and 0.015 Bee came from Jonesy and he was able to expedite the Sheptone order (normally there is a pretty long lead time). The sound of the guitar is much improved.

When I first put the pickups in, I was fairly haphazard with pickup height (I hadn't adjusted height before) and there was some improvement, but after dialing in the height with guidance from Jonesy and searching MLP forums, the sound is really, really great. I found this thread to be helpful for getting a starting point for height adjustment (An unusual way to adjust pickup height) -- that approach was not well-received in the thread but I found it useful nonetheless.

Many thanks to Jonesy for providing the information, guidance, parts, and support to make this a success. I had never done any significant guitar work before and he was able to guide me throughout the process from beginning to end. This should be the final update since I don't think there's anything left to tweak!

All thoose upgrades sounds like they would sound amazingly great
How about a sound sample?
I'd love to hear that guitar and the player