Gibson Bumblebee vs. Luxe bumblebee?

[LivewireBlanco]

I know the Gibsons are not real PIO, but what I would like to know is what are the differences between the two? I am trying to add a bit more mids to my '09 R8 without changing the stock pickups and pots. Think this will do the trick?

[MrRhoads]

Gibson can be a bit naughty sometimes...tut-tut read this post

[JM Vasek]

The Luxe bumblebees are Russian PIO caps much like the ones Jonesy sells:


They just have the bumblebee casing covering them. They will certainly help your tone, and the Luxe will do the trick if you want to have it look cosmetically the same.

Otherwise, I'd send a message to Jonesy (My Les Paul Forums - View Profile: jonesy) and get some PIO caps from him.


The Gibson bees are just cheaper metal film caps made to look like the real thing. The caps Jonesy sells will get you very close to real bee sonic territory.

[kingofnima]

+1 for jonesys caps!! they really are great and sound awesome!! and the price tag is also not too wild. Especially if you are a MLP member.

[5F6-A]

my choice ( in that order ) ...


Real bees / tan sprague / real VQ / real Black Beauties / Russian PIO / Luxe PIO / Jensen / new VQ / almost anything non ceramic / ceramic discs

The Gibson bee repros belong in the "almost anything non ceramic" category. So they are just a little bit better than cheap ceramic discs.

I'd go to Jonesy for caps. He knows his stuff and he's top guy.

[LivewireBlanco]

I went ahead and ordered the re-issue caps from RS Guitarworks. Hopefully they will tame a bit of the harshness of the bridge pickup and add a little bit of that mid range I'm looking for. Thanks guys I'll let you know how it ends up.

[jonesy]

I think the Gibson "Fake Bees" have an inexpensive poly film cap inside and the Luxe uses surplus Russian PIO caps. My caps with Red shields in picture posted on this thread are NOS Sprague Q's PIO

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

my choice ( in that order ) ...


Real bees / tan sprague / real VQ / real Black Beauties / Russian PIO / Luxe PIO / Jensen / new VQ / almost anything non ceramic / ceramic discs

The Gibson bee repros belong in the "almost anything non ceramic" category. So they are just a little bit better than cheap ceramic discs.

I'd go to Jonesy for caps. He knows his stuff and he's top guy.

Nice to see that Tan Sprague I sent you got such a high rating

[alligatorbling]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I think the Gibson "Fake Bees" have an inexpensive poly film cap inside and the Luxe uses surplus Russian PIO caps. My caps with Red shields in picture posted on this thread are NOS Sprague Q's PIO

your dead on jonesy, the repos = Russian PIOs

[LivewireBlanco]

Yeah, I knew the bees from RS were Russian PIO. I have some in an SG and the Lollar bridge has a good tone to it. Not harsh at all and has the mids I want. Could be the pickup though. Are your caps cheaper Jonesy?

[jonesy]

IDK I have been selling the NOS Sprague caps here at MLPF for $10 each and flat $4 S&H Worldwide. They are a little more in my ebay store due to seller fees etc, but lately I have been offering Free S&H on ebay if you mention your MLPF username

[LivewireBlanco]

Originally Posted by jonesy

IDK I have been selling the NOS Sprague caps here at MLPF for $10 each and flat $4 S&H Worldwide. They are a little more in my ebay store due to seller fees etc, but lately I have been offering Free S&H on ebay if you mention your MLPF username

Yeah, I definitely will give you a shout for the next guitar I upgrade. Those are great prices!

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Nice to see that Tan Sprague I sent you got such a high rating

it sounds very good. I thought VQ were very close to bees. Well, they are in sound but the tan sprague matches 95 % the bee sound AND the "behaviour"

I'm going to use it in a future semihollow guitar. 15 nF reliced VQ with a Guitarforce custom neck and the 22 nF Tan Sprague with a incredibly sweet yet bold Dave Stephens VL PAF repro. Cool combo, me thinks!

[LivewireBlanco]

New caps just arrived via UPS. Anything I need to be careful about before soldering them in? I have never soldered PIO caps, just regular ceramic.

[5F6-A]

you should be alright. PIOs are tough.

[LivewireBlanco]

Do they have to be wired in a certain direction or does it not matter? I am using the RS Luxe bees. Last question I promise!

[5F6-A]

try both ways using alligator clips and see if you can tell any difference. Most people can't anyway.

[LivewireBlanco]

Ok, so here's what I've found so far. The PIO caps add more bass and take just a touch of the high end off. It did just what I wanted it to do in the bridge position. I am not sure if I like the change yet in the neck position as I liked the cutting sound I had in the neck but this sound is much smoother. I think this is just the trick for the Burstbucker pickups for those people that think they are just a touch too harsh. I am a happy camper.

[5F6-A]

Please join us:

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/grou...bumblebee.html

[neils]

Not sure about the BB in the neck? I kinda have the same feeling in my guitar though it is P90's and Grey Tigers.

The 'luxx Tigers and Bees are the same inside. My R4 came with fake Bee's, I put in Grey Tigers. As you said smoother and as you said the some of the bite or cut is now gone with the 'luxx Bee/Tiger instead of the fake Bee.

I may go back to the fake Bee just to see. I've also tried the RS Jensens in .22 and .15 flavors in the neck. Even less cut/bite/sparkle with those than the 'luxx Bee/Tiger. BUT they could and do tame a bridge pup that was too hot.

I had some tones when I first got this R4 that I've lost or minimized. Some of them I want back! I've tried only different caps, strings and wraptail/studs. I can go back to square one if I need to but sometimes the "coolest gotta have" stuff isn't what you may want.

Wouldn't it be going against all fashion if I liked the sound of the stock wraptail slightly tilted in the stock brass studs? Could I be laughed of MLP?

Neil, going back to one fake Bee for a test.

[LivewireBlanco]

You have definitely nailed what I was trying to say Neils! I haven't gone back to the Gibson BB but be sure to post your findings on it. I love the tone of the bridge pickups but some bite in the neck would be nice again.

[neils]

Well I'd do it tonight but I won't be able to get some good playing time with the Tiger before I do the swap (takes 2 minutes) to the fake Bee.

I like to do the A/B test like that as I may actually remember what the Tiger sounded like only minutes before.

I'll report. FWIW I play an R4 with stock pickups, RS pots into a Blackheart Little giant 5W class A into a 1x12 with an Alnico Blue.

If I'm volume challenged I grit it up with a touch of an OCD and then sometimes also through a bit of an MI Audio Crunchbox. A little bit of each pedal do great things with a Class A amp. The amp itself sounds great IF I can run it at an 8 out of 10 on the dial.

Neil

[neils]

OK did it, went back to a fake BB from an RS Grey Tiger.

Just a recap, R4, stock pickups. RS kit for pots, 500K all around. I used the Grey Tigers that came with the kit. Also tried some Jensens. I got a .22 and .15 versions. Guitar had what I believe to be fake Gibson Bees when I got it.

The Jensens are good, warm and take the edge off, smoother top. Great for taming something harsh or dulling something too bright. I'd only consider one in the bridge position. Compared to a Grey tiger in the neck it lost "sparkle".

The Grey Tigers have more of that "sparkle" than the Jensens. The fake BB's are the brightest of all I have tried. They might be considered harsh in some applications.

So I've been running the Tigers for months. But I changed something...... and wouldn't you know something changed!

I took out the Emminence speaker from my closed 1x12 and put in a Celestion Blue. I made new back panels as the Blue sounds better to me in a open cab. Warmer/darker/more mids than the Emminence. Good changes but changes in what I had so that means everything changes. What I liked or found out I liked about the Emminence was gone or less.

The bridge pickup I like with the Blue and the Tiger. The neck pickup lost some of that rawness and edge. Going back to the "Bee" opened the neck pickup sound again. Kind like I was playing through a partially open door and then opened the door more. So with the fake Bee the sound is more open, more sparkle. I like that. The RAW is back.

So for awhile I'll play fake Bee in the neck and RS Tiger in the bridge.

I tried something else I'm pretty much liking. I wired the bridge cap "wrong" or as they do in the RS "Hillbilly" kit. Cap connection goes from the outside tone lug (like '50s wiring) of the tone pot to the outside ('50s wiring goes to the middle lug) of the volume pot. So outside to outside.

This is supposed to fatten the tone. Well it does. The neck pickup is fatter with I suppose less top end. It is less bright. Now the bridge pickup thru a pedal into the amp is all Leslie West P90 tone. It really just made the bridge pickup more useful for me. I like that very much. I'm using an MI Audio Crunch Box in this case. The Crunch adds tones of harmonics too. Very much a dimed Plexi sound. Boosts mids too for a killer woman tone.

Stuff to try. Have fun.

Neil

[jonesy]

Neils, you are out of Control!

[neils]

Yes, yes I am.

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by neils

I tried something else I'm pretty much liking. I wired the bridge cap "wrong" or as they do in the RS "Hillbilly" kit. Cap connection goes from the outside tone lug (like '50s wiring) of the tone pot to the outside ('50s wiring goes to the middle lug) of the volume pot. So outside to outside.

This is supposed to fatten the tone. Well it does. The neck pickup is fatter with I suppose less top end. It is less bright. Now the bridge pickup thru a pedal into the amp is all Leslie West P90 tone. It really just made the bridge pickup more useful for me. I like that very much. I'm using an MI Audio Crunch Box in this case. The Crunch adds tones of harmonics too. Very much a dimed Plexi sound. Boosts mids too for a killer woman tone.

hahaha another convert!!!!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by neils

Yes, yes I am.

You know I meant that in a good way right?

IMO Tinkering with things is the only way to get to the Truth about Tone

[neils]

Jonesy, All good. But I'm REALLY in trouble if I ever build an amp and THEN learn to tweek parts in that.

But everything matters. I know for sure if I was playing my amp louder than I can now everything would change again. About 3 times a year I get to my brothers and really hammer it. At home? Meh? I could use a 1/4 watt just as well as my towering 5 watt.

I'm still gonna build an amp though. Or I'd really like one of those Emery Sound Superbabys. I could see really geeking out on all those tube swaps. I might have to tape my glasses up.

Neil

[jonesy]

Yeah add in a bass player and drummer and you may have to change Tone settings to come thru the mix, in small rooms Tone sounds full, big rooms Tone can sound empty, playing outdoors is a whole other thing, it just goes on and on my friend. Have Fun