Tube Brands, how would you rate them?

[MrRhoads]

Hi folks

There are alot of tube brands/manufacters out there.
I´m gonna list as many as possible so please grade/rate them in rang of best to worst in your own opinion.
If you feel like please point out there good and bad sides.

JJ Electronics
Svetlana
Electro Harmonix
Genalex
Groove tubes
TAD
Sovtek
Ruby
Mullard
Tung sol
Engl

If you know any brand i haven´t listened just let me know...

[5F6-A]

I bought a few NOS valves some time back for my amps. If I can help it no current production valve will dwell in my amps. I don't gig that often these days anyway... if I did I'd probably go for something quite generic.

[Paragon]

There are a few sites on the internet with comparison between different brands of the same type.

[MrRhoads]

I was hoping on hearing from folks here on the forum with experience

[Splattle101]

I don’t know if can ‘review’ them but I can help group them by who and what they are.

New Sensor
The following brands are all owned by New Sensor. They are an American company who has bought the names and trademarks of some classic manufacturers, and they have valves manufactured in Russia in the Sovtek works:

Sovtek
Electro Harmonix
Svetlana
Tung sol
Mullard
Genalex

I’m not sure about Genalex, but I think New Sensor bought that name too.

The valves they have made for them are not the same as the stock items from the Sovtek factory. They are in effect special tube requests, for these brands. You can see this very easily at a glance if you have a look at the Sovtek and Mullard EL34s, or the Sovtek and Tung Sol 5881s. They’re not the same to look at, or electronically.

The Sovteks are the generic brand that has mixed reviews. I didn’t much like their EL84 or EL34. I do rather like their 12AX7WC.

I didn’t much like the Electro Harmonix EL34.

I don’t know about New Sensor Svetlanas.

I don’t know about the Mullard reissues.

The Tung Sol reissues that I’ve tried have been good (5881s) and poor (12AX7). The 5881s sounded a lot like the original 5881s and they haven’t died yet. The 12AX7 crapped itself: gassy. Their 6V6GTs get good reviews and I’d like to try them.

Winged C
This is the original Svetlana from St. Petersburg. New Sensor bought the American distribution rights for the name Svetlana, so the St Petersburg changed the English name of their brand.

I’ve never used them, but they are widely regarded as the best new production valves available for EL34s and 6L6GCs.


JJ Electronics
This is a Slovak mob who bought some of the gear from Tesla and started their own thing. They do not make copies of old Tesla valves as such, and in the last few years they’ve moved well beyond that heritage and are making a wider variety of valves, some of which are difficult to get in NOS. They do some very good 12AX7s (ECC83), and their 6V6 and GZ34 are highly regarded. I am using one of their GZ34s at the moment, and it’s yet to go microphonic or turn into a firecracker. I quite liked their 6L6GC, but wanted a different sound.


Re-sellers
These guys are all re-sellers of valves. They buy in valves from various manufacturers, test them and then re-label them.

Groove tubes
TAD
Ruby

You are paying for a premium selection service. This can be important if you’re dealing with some of the eastern European production, which can be a bit iffy. You know if you buy a GT-labelled Sovtek 12AX7, for example, that it’s one that works and meets its spec, and if it doesn’t they’ll replace it. Ruby and TAD do similar business, as does Harma.

These guys also have some special tube requests (STRs) made for them by the various Russian, Chinese and Slovakian manufacturers. These STRs are not available as standard items from one of the other brands. Examples include the 6L6WGC and 6L6GC-STR from TAD, or the 12AX7M from Groove Tube. You can’t buy a Sovtek equivalent of the 12AX7M, or a Shuagang equivalent of the 6L6WGC.

I don’t know about Engl.

[tejastubes]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

I don’t know if can ‘review’ them but I can help group them by who and what they are.

New Sensor
The following brands are all owned by New Sensor. They are an American company who has bought the names and trademarks of some classic manufacturers, and they have valves manufactured in Russia in the Sovtek works:

Sovtek
Electro Harmonix
Svetlana
Tung sol
Mullard
Genalex

I’m not sure about Genalex, but I think New Sensor bought that name too.

The valves they have made for them are not the same as the stock items from the Sovtek factory. They are in effect special tube requests, for these brands. You can see this very easily at a glance if you have a look at the Sovtek and Mullard EL34s, or the Sovtek and Tung Sol 5881s. They’re not the same to look at, or electronically.

The Sovteks are the generic brand that has mixed reviews. I didn’t much like their EL84 or EL34. I do rather like their 12AX7WC.

I didn’t much like the Electro Harmonix EL34.

I don’t know about New Sensor Svetlanas.

I don’t know about the Mullard reissues.

The Tung Sol reissues that I’ve tried have been good (5881s) and poor (12AX7). The 5881s sounded a lot like the original 5881s and they haven’t died yet. The 12AX7 crapped itself: gassy. Their 6V6GTs get good reviews and I’d like to try them.

Winged C
This is the original Svetlana from St. Petersburg. New Sensor bought the American distribution rights for the name Svetlana, so the St Petersburg changed the English name of their brand.

I’ve never used them, but they are widely regarded as the best new production valves available for EL34s and 6L6GCs.


JJ Electronics
This is a Slovak mob who bought some of the gear from Tesla and started their own thing. They do not make copies of old Tesla valves as such, and in the last few years they’ve moved well beyond that heritage and are making a wider variety of valves, some of which are difficult to get in NOS. They do some very good 12AX7s (ECC83), and their 6V6 and GZ34 are highly regarded. I am using one of their GZ34s at the moment, and it’s yet to go microphonic or turn into a firecracker. I quite liked their 6L6GC, but wanted a different sound.


Re-sellers
These guys are all re-sellers of valves. They buy in valves from various manufacturers, test them and then re-label them.

Groove tubes
TAD
Ruby

You are paying for a premium selection service. This can be important if you’re dealing with some of the eastern European production, which can be a bit iffy. You know if you buy a GT-labelled Sovtek 12AX7, for example, that it’s one that works and meets its spec, and if it doesn’t they’ll replace it. Ruby and TAD do similar business, as does Harma.

These guys also have some special tube requests (STRs) made for them by the various Russian, Chinese and Slovakian manufacturers. These STRs are not available as standard items from one of the other brands. Examples include the 6L6WGC and 6L6GC-STR from TAD, or the 12AX7M from Groove Tube. You can’t buy a Sovtek equivalent of the 12AX7M, or a Shuagang equivalent of the 6L6WGC.

I don’t know about Engl.

Yeah most of what you see nowadays comes from these places: Czech, China, and a few factories in Russia. The plant which was set up by Philips in Yugoslovia has been sold to the owner of Western Electric Charlie Whitener who has attempted to bring it up in Tennessee, but we'll see.

Basically the new tubes being made today are junk, some are screened and tested so you get a better grade of junk. JJ=junk junk.

NOS tubes were made with alot more attention to quality or materials and workmanship, and sound so much better especially when the circuit you put them into is more sensitive. NOS tubes will not be able to correct flaws in circuit design, but when you have an amazingly good sounding guitar amp, then NOS tubes really shine.

This is the reason I don't sell or waste my time with new production tubes. I let the other tube dealers do that.

I will add one exception I have noticed lately:

Mesa Boogie has a new STR 6L6GC which Mike B tells me is so close to the old Sylvania STR that it about 98% there,,,they have a pretty good screening process as well as matching and their price for those are pretty reasonable, and I trust him quite a bit as he is pretty straight and has been doing this amp thing for quite a while, but that tube was designed and developed I beleive by the guy at Ruby with the chinese over a long process and took some work to get right,,,most of the other stuff that's being made now is not produced like that. Still, even the new Mesa STR is not made with the same materials that the old Sylvania were made with.

Joshua Syna

[freddarl82]

As much as MrRhoads would like a hard and fast answer, is not the correct answer really "it depends?" Just as a set of pickups can sound different in different guitars, some tubes sound better in some amps and worse in others (while a competing brand may sound like crap in the first amp and great in the second). It'd be nice if we could all have and afford NOS tubes, but it'd be nice if we could all have real PAF's, too... so most of us are left buying today's production.

I have a handbuilt Tweed Bassman clone that runs EL-34's. The guy who built it shipped it to me with EH EL34's - something that would not typically have been my first choice. I tried some Tung Sol (reissue) and JJ's, and they just didn't do it. In this amp, the EH's give me a magical tone.

So, like the pickup quest: research, read-up, then pull out your wallet and start trying some.

I WISH it were simpler...

[MrRhoads]

Thanks guys

freddarl82 I´ve only tried JJ, Ruby & Mesa boogie so i was hoping to hear how people rate them.
I like my JJ EL34 alot better than the Mesa Boogie EL34.
Since there some experts IMO on this forum with great knowledge i was hoping to get some pointer that this brand works great in alot of amps for example.

But like you said "So, like the pickup quest: research, read-up, then pull out your wallet and start trying some."

[Splattle101]

On the subject of NOS vs new production, you'll get a lot very heated opinions. It is true that new production is not to the same standards as the old, Western production. This is for a whole lot of reasons, most of which have to do with these things not being required for critical applications anymore.

However, it's not all bad news. Modern computer controlled equipment and and modern quality control processes are far better and more precise than in the good old days, so there's immense potential for improvement in the major manufacturers. The cost of this sort of computer controlled equipment has plummetted in the last few years, too, so the improvements are accessible to nearly all manufacturers.

The biggest improvement has come from China. They have a lot of experience with vacuum tube technology, but audio valves for commercial purposes are relatively new to them. The current Chinese 12AX7s are among the best made since the good old days, and there's no reason they can't get better. The reviewer's verdicts on the new STRs for TAD that are being done in China is that they sound superb. There's a 7025 and two 6L6GC equivalents in that lot. The question is how long they will last. It's certainly not realistic to expect them to last as long as an old RCA or GE or Mullard, simply because the cathode coatings are not the same and can't be. However, if you can get a couple years of good flogging out of a pair of 6L6s, and they're not too expensive to begin with, you're doing alright. You're certainly doing better than trying to find a matched pair of NOS RCA 6L6GCs for less than $400 US.

So I don't think there's cause for despair in relation to new production.

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by tejastubes

...
I will add one exception I have noticed lately:

Mesa Boogie has a new STR 6L6GC which Mike B tells me is so close to the old Sylvania STR that it about 98% there,,,they have a pretty good screening process as well as matching and their price for those are pretty reasonable, and I trust him quite a bit as he is pretty straight and has been doing this amp thing for quite a while, but that tube was designed and developed I beleive by the guy at Ruby with the chinese over a long process and took some work to get right,,,most of the other stuff that's being made now is not produced like that. Still, even the new Mesa STR is not made with the same materials that the old Sylvania were made with.

Joshua Syna

My quick and dirty research of this suggests that the Mesa 6L6 STR 440 is another Shuguang valve. The negative review I read sounded more like a description of a Russian 5881WXT, and Mesa does one of those, too (with a button base, no less!!! ). I suspect they had their numbers mixed up.

But it's clear the Chinese are making some good sounding valves now. Which is a good thing. It might give the Russians a good kick up the arse, for a start.

[Deftone]

Good thread.

I haven't tried many different brands, but I tried JJ 12AX7's and I liked them. However, I read another post that said they don't last long.

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by Deftone

Good thread.

I haven't tried many different brands, but I tried JJ 12AX7's and I liked them. However, I read another post that said they don't last long.

Thanks
I´ve heard JJ are great quality so i guess it depends on how hard you drive them.
I set my preamp to 6-7/12 to leave some headroom for my overdrive pedal so i guess i don´t drive them that hard.

[Quill]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

I don’t know if can ‘review’ them but I can help group them by who and what they are ...

Wow, what a great thread. Thank you to the OP for starting it, thanks to all who've posted - so much good information here. I especially appreciate the post I quoted here.

One day, I'm going to put in that order for some new-old tubes to Angela Electronics ... but jeez, between my Twin and my Workin' Dog, that's a lot of tubes!

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by Quill

Wow, what a great thread. Thank you to the OP for starting it, thanks to all who've posted - so much good information here. I especially appreciate the post I quoted here.

One day, I'm going to put in that order for some new-old tubes to Angela Electronics ... but jeez, between my Twin and my Workin' Dog, that's a lot of tubes!

Yep, Splatts is the man

[GoofyDawg]

You might check out The Tube Store (thetubestore.com Audio and vacuum tubes for your amplifier.). They're a Canadian company, and I've been buying tubes from them for years. Their reviews are spot-on, and go into really good detail.

I've tried about all the tube brands on your list except for the Genalex and Engl tubes. IMO, you can't go wrong with JJ's. Really good quality, and they last a long time. I have one Mullard that I use as a phase inverter in one of my amps, and it really tamed the cleans. Can't say that I like Groove Tubes; especially the 6L6's.

As far as NOS is concerned, I pretty much swear by NOS JAN-Philips 12AX7's. They're not cheap, but they're very well made, and last a long time. Plus, you can still get them.

[Quill]

Originally Posted by GoofyDawg

You might check out The Tube Store ...

Thanks, I haven't ever looked there, and I will! I've bought capacitors, wire, other assorted bits from Angela and really like them, but there's that whole border thing. Appreciate your comments on tubes, too.

So far I've had good luck with JJ's, terrible luck with Electro-Harmonix and ok luck with Rubys ... haven't properly tried any other kinds yet. I did had the EL-mod done to my twin ('76 point-to-point SF) with some Groove Tubes years ago, and it was unbelievably good, like nothing I'd ever heard before ... for exactly one gig! After that, they rapidly degraded to seriously mediocre over about a week of steady use. But that has to count as some kind of amp-tube abuse, and doesn't count! Got the amp back to stock not long after that.

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by Quill

Wow, what a great thread. Thank you to the OP for starting it, thanks to all who've posted - so much good information here. I especially appreciate the post I quoted here.

One day, I'm going to put in that order for some new-old tubes to Angela Electronics ... but jeez, between my Twin and my Workin' Dog, that's a lot of tubes!

You´re welcome

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by Quill

... I did had the EL-mod done to my twin ('76 point-to-point SF) with some Groove Tubes years ago, and it was unbelievably good, like nothing I'd ever heard before ... for exactly one gig! After that, they rapidly degraded to seriously mediocre over about a week of steady use. But that has to count as some kind of amp-tube abuse, and doesn't count! Got the amp back to stock not long after that.

I don't know what the EL mod is, but it sounds like it's something nasty!

FWIW, Groove Tube do a few 6L6s that are worth looking at. There's their premium 6L6GE, which is a reissue of the GE 6L6GC using old stock. The examples of these I've tried have been terrific. However, production has now moved to China and opinions on the new product are mixed. Suck it and see, I suppose.

The others are their 5881 and 6L6CHP. These are both Chinese production, but they're different to each other, and they're not a re-label of an existing valve from another manufacturer.

But for new production 6L6GCs I'm tending toward Winged C, the GT-6L6GE and either of the TAD 6L6-STRs these days. I just thought I'd mention this stuff about GT because there's a lot of people out there who seem to dislike GT a lot, and they spread a lot of misinformation about them (e.g., 'All GT does is re-label other makers' tubes'). The hatin' seems to have got worse since Fender bought them. I carry no particular flame for them, but Groove Tube and New Sensor have done a lot of good work to get some of the Russian and Chinese manufacturers to produce some very good valves.

[MrRhoads]

Hey guys.
I were able to get ahold of a brand new JJ KT88 today for at least 50% of the normal price here in sweden.
A radio museum in Gothenburg had a old list from 2007 so i took a shot a called them
Here´s the list, http://www.radiomuseet.se/butik/index_ror.html (the row that sais "SEK" means swedish crowns) otherwise the language is in swedish and the list is from 2007 but they still had the JJ KT88 which was brand new, some tubes were 2nd hand donations they told me.
Hopefully i´ll have the KT88 this friday

[PINKBITS]

Any of you guys ever used any NOS RFT preamp valves? Considering trying a couple in my Lionheart.

[Quill]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

I don't know what the EL mod is, but it sounds like it's something nasty!

I'm sure you would have recognized what I was talking about, had I remembered and mentioned the type of "EL" involved when I posted. It's the mod that adapts a Twin to work with EL34s instead of 6L6s. It was ages ago and I had chosen to believe that EL34s had a certain sound and 6L6s another sound - Here's an Easy Trick to Turn your Old-Fashioned Fender into the Hot Marshall of your Dreams! - and I wanted the one I didn't have, of course. The EL34s were biased ridiculously hot, which I'm sure is why they died so fast. It's a stupid-kid kind of thing to do, Twins are wonderful. I'll never forget that first gig with that mod, though ... probably the kindness of memory.

Mine's sputtering a bit, though; probably a tube is going, but which? or could it be a capacitor ... this poor old soldier could be suffering in all kinds of ways! Last time I had it worked on, when the tech and I opened it up and looked inside, some of the resistors crumbled into dust, like they were tiny mummified corpses that disintegrate when their air-tight tomb is opened ... ok, ok he did have to touch them with his pencil but they did crumble right in front of us!

[Splattle101]

Time for a cap job! At the very least. Filter caps have a finite life to them, so if they've been in there since the 1970s, they're well and truly due.

[Quill]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

Time for a cap job! At the very least. Filter caps have a finite life to them, so if they've been in there since the 1970s, they're well and truly due.

But I just had them done! ('bout 5 years ago ...!) You are right, of course. Still recovering from the last visit to the tech, which involved new tubes, the replacement of a bunch of caps and - ahem - resistors, removal of the master volume, reverb onto both channels and a "blackfacing" ... that cost me a bit. But, wow ... worth every penny. Just once I hope to play through an original blackface, or a tweed.

I'm curious, Splattle101, and others who've posted about their experience with all these different kinds of tubes ... what are you putting them in? And are you all savvy enough to set up the bias yourselves? ... but maybe this isn't the place for a question that broad!

[Splattle101]

My valves are going in a 73 Super Reverb (silverface) and a Bassman. The Bassman is a '59 Bassman LTD, and is pretty much stock apart from the valves. V1 and V2 are a GE 12AX7A and a GE 7025 respectively. The phase inverter is the stock Fender / Groove Tube 12AX7 (Sovtek 12AX7WC). The power valves are old US Tung Sol 5881s and the rectifier is a JJ.

The Super Reverb is a long story. I bought it in the early mid 90s, and it was in parlous shape. I used a bit for studio and home jamming but that's it. Too fragile otherwise. I put it away with most of my music gear in 2000 and when I got it out again in 2007 it was basically dead.

When I got back to civilization I found a good amp tech and said, 'Pray get it back to original working condition, but blackface it.'
He said,'It shall be done.' A little later he called back and said,'The good news is that it's already blackfaced, but lo! the power tranny is fucked, and doeth leak parafin all over the guts of your amp! Pray what shall I do?'
'Ah what the hell, fix it all,' says I.
'OK,' quoth he.

So it's bascially got a completley new power supply (tranny, choke and of course the rectifier). All the caps were done because the filter caps were original (!!) and the others had been destroyed by the parafin. It got Jensen P10Rs, which sound nice but some can be a little fragile. In essence, it's been refurbished to 1965 standard, so when I replaced the cracked speaker baffle, I decided to repace the torn speaker coth with 60s style and put a black control panel on it.

I run Groove Tubes thoughout - because that's what my tech used to get, nice and cheap - except for the following:
* rectifier is an RCA 5U4GB;
* V2 (preamp for the reverb channel) is an RCA 7025.
The rest are GT ECC83s or 12AT7s, and the power valves are GT 6L6GEs, which sound great in that amp.

Looks like this:


And this is the amp that worries me as far as power valves are concerned, because the NOS 6L6GCs are basically gone. So if the new GT 6L6GEs aren't as good as the ones I've got, that means I'm on the hunt for new-prod 6L6GCs. I've got one pair of NOS Sylvanias stashed for a rainy day, but for 6L6GCs that's it. Luckily I've got a few pairs of NOS Tung Sol 5881s, so my Bassman is OK for the next few years.

[Quill]

one of my favorites ...

and: My amp has the self-same "split" in the tolex, right above the light ... could you have had a bit of a cabinet problem, in that corner? Whatever could be the problem? Couldn't possibly have anything to do with the freakin' boat-anchor transformer directly underneath ... !

I feel very lucky to have my Twin. I am told mine is from the very last year they were point-to-point, and thus easy to fix and upgrade. My father bought it for me for practically nuthin' when I was in my early teens - he's a drummer, and we were playing gigs with an electronics whiz/bass player who was completely mad and had an assortment of Fender amps he'd done absolutely terrible things to. I shouldn't say he bought it. I should say, he rescued it. After struggling with it for probably two decades I finally took it to a great amp tech, a bit of a magician, really, who's had a 30-year career fixing and restoring Fenders ... and he told me there were things going on in my Twin that he had never seen before, and admitted that some he could not understand. It got a lot better when he took that junk out! This Twin (wish I was set up to post a photo - it's a lot more banged-up than your lovely amp, but interesting in its assortment of scars) has been all over the place with me, never will I let it leave - but I have to say, even blackfaced, it's still a little hard-sounding sometimes (but - Celestion G12-80s, if you can believe it - they may need to go, one of these days), and I always love and envy a bit the sweetness of the Supers ...

[Torren61]

NEC, Brimar, Bendix, Raytheon, Ward Airline, Telefunken, GE, Philco, JAN and RCA.

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by Torren61

NEC, Brimar, Bendix, Raytheon, Ward Airline, Telefunken, GE, Philco, JAN and RCA.

Any experience with thoose?

[Torren61]

Those were all good tubes. All vintage. I left out Wurlitzer.

Most vintage tubes were pretty dependable. I even have a couple of 50s Soviet made tubes that I'm running in my amp right now (6V6 GT).

The Mullards, Telefunkens, Bendix, old RCAs and Brimars were ones most sought after.

As for my opinion...I don't think my ear is so good as to pick up subtle differences in tube tones.

I ran USA 6L6 GA Brimar tubes in place of my 6V6GT tubes (don't try that the other way around) and it gave me more headroom (louder clean sound before breaking up) but I'm back to the Soviet tubes.

The only advice I would give for starting out with tubes is stay away from Chinese and newer Soviet tubes. I have a reference article somewhere but I'm typing from my phone now instead of my desktop (phfew!).

[Deftone]

Originally Posted by PINKBITS

Any of you guys ever used any NOS RFT preamp valves? Considering trying a couple in my Lionheart.

I just ordered a couple NOS RFT's off ebay. The last two he had and they're coming from Siberia so It's gonna be a while. I heard they were great for Hard Rock. I'm no gear afficionado, and I play with heavy distortion all the time, but I can give you a thumbs up or down after I try 'em.

[Splattle101]

With the old valves there's a lot of cross pollination. General Electric made valves for nearly everybody, and so did RCA, and most of the big companies made stuff that was labeled for somebody else. I've got a pair of GE 6L6GCs from 1959 that are labeled 'Wurlitzer'. I've got another pair of identical, matched 6L6GCs with one labeled Dumont and the other labeled Sylvania who actually made the pair. To confuse matters further Sylvania was bought up by Phillips in the late 1970s, so some Phillips production is actually Sylvania. Mullard made valves for just about everybody.

Regarding brands like 'Wurlitzer' and the other organ manufacturers, these are usually valves made by one of the big companies (RCA, GE, Sylvania, Mullard, etc), and selected and labeled for their client (Wurlitzer in this case). This is important because these valves are actually premium valves selected for low mircrophonics and noise. So a Wurlitzer-labeled GE is a premium-selected GE, for example. They're worth keeping an eye out for.

The term 'JAN' means 'Joint Army / Navy'. It means the valve is for military use and was probably delivered to the military warehouse in a generic white box with the technical details stamped on the outside. But 'JAN' is not a brand as such. Most of these JAN valves are actually branded when you get them in your hot little hand. For example, I've got some JAN CTL 6L6WGBs that are branded Tung Sol. They're just garden variety Tung Sol 5881s with a JAN designation (although I've not found out what CTL stands for...). Similarly, I've got some other JAN valves, like the Phillips JAN 5751. Big 'Phillips' label on it.

If you can find a reputable vendor, they can usually sort out the manufacturers for you. Reputable vendors will usually have decent test data for you, too. This is important when buying power valves, because in most amps the power valves have to operate in matched pairs. This is where it gets tricky, and I'll put that in a separate post.