Capacitators, Jensen vs Grey Tigers

[MrRhoads]

I´ve got the RS Guitarworks Vintage Kit with Jensen PIO caps .022 bridge and .015 neck.
There are Luxe Grey Tigers pairs which are .02 for both bridge and neck.
Anyone know what difference it´s make?

[b-squared]

The caps themselves are different makes, so there may be a little difference.

The .02 on the neck vice the .015 will make it a little fatter.

If you call RS and ask for Billy he can give you more specifics. That is my best advice.

BB

[MrRhoads]

I´ll drop him a email instead, a little cheaper since i´m in sweden.
I guess one could talk forever with a PRO to

[neils]

I've had both in my R4. But I didn't try the .15 Jensen I had and I just mailed it to my brother for him to try.

I took fake Gibson Bees out of the R4 and installed the Grey tigers.........

......the edge of the Bees was gone. Less cutting tone, not as hard. OK we'll call it warmer, smoother. I like it.

Installed a .22 Jensen in the the neck and the bridge but not at the same time......

.....more mids with the Jensens. Even more round and less edge than the Tigers. There was a cut and edge to the Tigers that the Jensens took away.

I played clean and dirty. I play 5w class A amp so it has a nice edgy tone anyway. I played each cap for a few hours, walked away and played it again before the next change.

I described in another thread that the Jensen was too polite and took away some of the rudeness of the Tiger. I admit there were some things about the tones from the fake Bees I liked too.

I could see a Jensen in the bridge and a Tiger in the neck. That could work to tame a too bright bridge pickup.

The guitar now has Grey Tigers in both positions. Remember this was with P90s.

Everything matters. I've now tried enough stuff that in some ways when "warm" could mean dull, now cut, no edge. Warm may not be good. It worked hear. I prefer the sound of the Tigers in my P90 guitar.

RS Grey Tigers and Bees are the same inside, so same tone.

Hope that helps.

Neil

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by neils

I've had both in my R4. But I didn't try the .15 Jensen I had and I just mailed it to my brother for him to try.

I took fake Gibson Bees out of the R4 and installed the Grey tigers.........

......the edge of the Bees was gone. Less cutting tone, not as hard. OK we'll call it warmer, smoother. I like it.

Installed a .22 Jensen in the the neck and the bridge but not at the same time......

.....more mids with the Jensens. Even more round and less edge than the Tigers. There was a cut and edge to the Tigers that the Jensens took away.

I played clean and dirty. I play 5w class A amp so it has a nice edgy tone anyway. I played each cap for a few hours, walked away and played it again before the next change.

I described in another thread that the Jensen was too polite and took away some of the rudeness of the Tiger. I admit there were some things about the tones from the fake Bees I liked too.

I could see a Jensen in the bridge and a Tiger in the neck. That could work to tame a too bright bridge pickup.

The guitar now has Grey Tigers in both positions. Remember this was with P90s.

Everything matters. I've now tried enough stuff that in some ways when "warm" could mean dull, now cut, no edge. Warm may not be good. It worked hear. I prefer the sound of the Tigers in my P90 guitar.

RS Grey Tigers and Bees are the same inside, so same tone.

Hope that helps.

Neil

Yeah that helps
Time to prepare for some soldering
I like that about the edge description...

Gonna see if i can make some before and after demos

[b-squared]

Great post, Neils...

[overdriver]

I thought the fake bee's , where grey tigers ? NO?

[b-squared]

Originally Posted by overdriver

I thought the fake bee's , where grey tigers ? NO?

Absolutely not...the fake bees are crappy ceramic caps hidden inside a Bee cover.

I think WB cut one in half to see once. Posted a pic, but I have no idea where it is.

[5F6-A]

yeap .... old PIOs tend to leave some highs
Jensens are more efficient and warm IME

In general terms Jensens are not as sparkly as old bees, Vitamin Qs or even Russian PIOs

Originally Posted by b-squared

Absolutely not...the fake bees are crappy ceramic caps hidden inside a Bee cover.

I think WB cut one in half to see once. Posted a pic, but I have no idea where it is.

they are nor ceramic but Wesco plastic stuff.. not that bad... not that nice either.
It was a friend oof mine here in Spain who xrayed and cut the fake bee... naughty Gibson!

[b-squared]

Ah, thanks for the correction!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

yeap .... old PIOs tend to leave some highs
Jensens are more efficient and warm IME

In general terms Jensens are not as sparkly as old bees, Vitamin Qs or even Russian PIOs



they are nor ceramic but Wesco plastic stuff.. not that bad... not that nice either.
It was a friend oof mine here in Spain who xrayed and cut the fake bee... naughty Gibson!

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by b-squared

Ah, thanks for the correction!

not a problem. bro!!

[Chris]

This is a quote from Billy in my email in regards to his kits.

"One uses a Jensen cap, and this kit is warm & FAT.

* The other uses a Luxe paper-in-oil, with more of a midrange emphasis."

I should also note that he is making me a harness with push pulls for my es-135 with p90's. There will be two different caps for each pickup. When down it will be the "vintage" cap and when pulled it will engage the "modern" cap. Something I just learned about.

[cynic79]

Originally Posted by overdriver

I thought the fake bee's , where grey tigers ? NO?

To clarify, the Luxe Bees and Grey Tigers are the same PIO caps, but with different coverings.

The Gibson fake Bees are polypropylene caps with bee covering.

[neils]

5F6-A,

"Sparkly" That is the word I was looking for. Yes an RS Tiger or BB has more sparkle than a Jensen. Really depends on......, well everything. What guitar do you play and what do you want to sound like.

I play a 5 watt Class Blackheart with good tubes. An EL84 amp with sparkle.

My brother has 2 Dr Z amps, Maz with EL84s and a Z28 w/6L6's. I'm not going to compare a BH with a Maz but it has alot more in common than the BH and Z28.

I LOVE my bridge P90 with the Z28. Never sounded as good. If I owned that or any other 6L6 amp I'd be going in a different direction in what I change or think I should change or try.

Sometimes we change stuff to what we think we'll like based on what we've read or heard or want to be true. Sometimes it is just that, a change but it is a step away from what we wanted.

I'd love to start a thread on what myself and others have changed only to find that we went the wrong way even if it was "supposed" to do this or that. And then did we go back or stay with the new stuff.

For example I love the Pyramid Pure Nickel strings. Well I love 3 of them, the plain ones. I really like wound strings that aren't nickel and round core etc etc. I gained some stuff I like with the Pyramids, I lost some stuff I like about the R4 with the Pyramids.

I really like regular old Roto-sound strings, the pink or yellow pack. I really like the GHS David Gilmour set. I really like the plain strings of the Pyramid set. Where am I going with this. Circles. I'm going in circles.

I have a .15 RS Modern cap I'm gonna try in the neck of my R4. Going from PIO .22 to a Modern .15 ought to be a big change. Big enough to know if it is a way to consider. Caps don't have to be the same and so what if it isn't correct for an R4.

And besides I changed the speaker in the BH from the stock Emminence (doesn't suck) to a Celestion Alnico Blue. Different and also I gained some stuff I like and lost some Emminence stuff I like.

Try stuff.

Neil

[5F6-A]

I installed a reliced Vitamin Q 15 nF cap yesterday in my reliced stratclone and it sounds great. Before I had a 10 nF Jensen cap with copper foil. Fat and warm but I like the Q much better. Much much better.

[hillbilly]

Gibson can be a bit naughty sometimes...tut-tut

[bryvincent]

why do you keep calling the Gibson Bees fake?

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by bryvincent

why do you keep calling the Gibson Bees fake?

Because the "bees" in modern production Les Pauls are NOT the vintage 'BumbleBees'...not anything like them; probably the polar opposite.

Click on the link above to see what the real deal is...

[bryvincent]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

Because the "bees" in modern production Les Pauls are NOT the vintage 'BumbleBees'...not anything like them; probably the polar opposite.

Click on the link above to see what the real deal is...

but the luxe bees are not vintage bees too but they're not refered to as 'fake'.

i wouldn't call Gibson's Bees fake but more like a modern version of the later style(mylar) of the vintage bees. not all vintage bees on Gibsons in the 50s are PIOs. the later version are Mylar film types which some Gibsons have starting in '59. that later version though not the same, is close(not polar opposite) to Gibson's bees today.

http://www.doctorvintage.com/electri...ectricals.html


.

[Splattle101]

That's hilarious!

So, according to the pics in that link, some of the vintage Sprague Black Beauty caps used in late 'bursts are not PIOs at all, but actually mylar.

That's restored my faith in the futility of cork-sniffing. Repent, I say! For all is vanity!

[Starrman]

Interesting post, thanks....Neils, The Z28 has 2 6V6's....not 6L6's. Unless someone converted it. I have one , they are cool amps aren't they? I love my MAZ 38, and the EZG50....That is Godzilla !

[neils]

I always get those tubes crossed up.

I guess you could remember them as 6-loud-6's and 6-veryloud-6's

My R4 loves that amp.

Neil

[MrRhoads]

Originally Posted by bryvincent

but the luxe bees are not vintage bees too but they're not refered to as 'fake'.

i wouldn't call Gibson's Bees fake but more like a modern version of the later style(mylar) of the vintage bees. not all vintage bees on Gibsons in the 50s are PIOs. the later version are Mylar film types which some Gibsons have starting in '59. that later version though not the same, is close(not polar opposite) to Gibson's bees today.

1950's Gibson Electricals


.

Gibson builds great guitars IMO but the electronics just doesn´t do the guitar justice.
Thank god for all of you who told me to get a RS Guitarworks kit rather than changing pickups

[jonesy]

From my experience the Bees with the solder blob on one end (oil fill tube) are PIO and the ones without it are Mylar. Also most all the Sprague PIO Caps I have had are marked with a P and 2 on them not the D and B. IMHO If you have a good ear you can hear the difference between a PIO cap and one made with Mylar

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by neils

I always get those tubes crossed up.

I guess you could remember them as 6-loud-6's and 6-veryloud-6's

Other way around.

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

Other way around.

true! although volume and loudness are highly affected by the size and design of the OT and speaker sensitivity

[MrRhoads]

Arrrgh.
I´ve just installed some Grey Tigers
Bridge pickup works fine, the neck died... Ooops
Guess i must have touched something i shouldn´t.
I checked all the wiring and it´s correctly wired, think i´m gonna re-solder the neck volume pot to see if it helps.
Any other ideas are welcome...

[MrRhoads]

By the way, the grey tiger in the bridge is definetly awesome
Just like Neils said more EDGE i i´ll add bite to that.
I really love it for the stuff i play...
I did shot a before video and there will be a after video when the neck thing is sorted out..
Let´s hope we can hear some difference at youtube

[5F6-A]

congrats on the cap!

dead pickup??? upppps.... unsolder it and check it with a multimetre.