Pots and caps - Upgrade compared with stock

[Standard Andrew]

There are many people changing their pots and caps to enhance their guitars sound beyond that of the stock standard components. The typical comment is "The tone is like night and day with the upgrade" etc

Does anyone have before and after sound clips or youtube clips of their upgrades?

I've got an Epi LP standard with stock everything running through a pretty ordinary amp (Samick Be Bop Deluxe LA10V) and i find the the sound to be quite muddy. I'm sure that a new amp is on order but i'm wondering in an upgrade in the pots and caps would give me some improvement in the meantime. (I'm purely a sit and strum along guitarist - no gigging yet)

(I like playing blues, rock, etc)

(speaking of new amps, the Vox AC4TV looks nice. Any comments on it's performance?)

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

[chromewhore2010]

In my experience (not alot but enough) replacing pots is usually if you're either getting dim sound (you'd switch to a higher "k") or if you are getting too harsh a sound (you'd switch to a lower "k"). The muddiness just might be because of stock wiring/stock pups/amp. But usually you don't need to change pots if you're still using the stock pups. Usually.

[b-squared]

I'll share my experience....

I bought a 2004 '59 Historic Reissue for $3500 back in '04. It's a beautiful guitar, and is my favorite LP to date.

I wasn't happy at ALL with the electronics. The volume pots had little or no taper; at '2' they would turn OFF, and above "4-5' they would be full-ON. The tone pots were pretty much the same...all tone, or NO tone.

At the time I was frequenting a vintage amp forum (this is pre-MLP), and one of the members suggested I try RS Guitarworks. I gave them a call, and spoke to Billy, the guy that puts all the kits together when you order. He told me that it's a common story; great guitar, cheap electronics.

I purchased a Vintage Kit and installed it. (BTW...it still had the stock burstbucker pickups) The difference was incredible. It was as if a blanket had been removed from the front of my amp. Yes, it was THAT dramatic.

The volume works like it should; by the time I have it cranked down to '5' it's cleaning up nicely...nice taper. The tone pots actually work now. I used to be a 'knobs on 10' guy, but now I tweak them all the time. (Note: their 'Superpots'...volume controls...have a customized taper that lies somewhere between a linear and audio taper)

I'm a believer in the RS product. I have their electronics in 3 Les Pauls, and 5 of my guitars have their products in them. Standard procedure for me now is to order a set every time I buy a guitar. I am not a paid spokesman, either--I purchase everything I use.

I don't have before/after recordings, but believe me--you too will be a believer.

BB

PS--I recommend changing electronics BEFORE changing pickups. You may just like the sound you get when you have quality parts under the hood. I eventually changed out my pickups as well, but I waited awhile before doing that. If you have any other questions, MLP member Hillbilly actually works there, and can tell you exactly what you need based on your guitar and the tone you are seeking. Give them a call, he's always willing to put his work down for a few minutes.

[767400]

I agree completely with B-Squared. The RS Vintage Upgrade kit is in all my LP's (except the 69) and I feel it was a very worth while change. The original pots were no where near as useful. They sounded like off, mid, or full. The RS pots allow you to fine tune your tone from 1 all the way to 10.

[kernelofwisdom]

I just posted some epiphone clips going from standard to decent pickups with stock epi electronics. I'd say you get the most bang for the buck there, although B-squared goes the other way and he knows more than I do for sure. If you watch this station, if I figure out how to put one of my historic oriented RS kits in the epi, I'll do that this weekend and post clips.

So, after the pickups, yeah I think pot/cap upgrades are good stuff. Not very expensive, really, and depending on what kind of stuff you have now, you'll get objectively better control of your tone frequency and at least subjectively better tone. I'll try to do a before/after soon - I've got a couple of RS kits sitting around.

The pickup change clip:

Epiphone PIckup Upgrade

[TheSandman1914]

Originally Posted by Standard Andrew

There are many people changing their pots and caps to enhance their guitars sound beyond that of the stock standard components. The typical comment is "The tone is like night and day with the upgrade" etc

Does anyone have before and after sound clips or youtube clips of their upgrades?

I've got an Epi LP standard with stock everything running through a pretty ordinary amp (Samick Be Bop Deluxe LA10V) and i find the the sound to be quite muddy. I'm sure that a new amp is on order but i'm wondering in an upgrade in the pots and caps would give me some improvement in the meantime. (I'm purely a sit and strum along guitarist - no gigging yet)

(I like playing blues, rock, etc)

(speaking of new amps, the Vox AC4TV looks nice. Any comments on it's performance?)

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

First-Ive only been a member a few days and it's been the best upgrade for my life! Ive had more than a dozen procedures this year and this is the closest I may come to playing...just got a new lefty Gibson Les Paul custom monday and not being able to play it is worse than the pain!!

Anyways, Ive found that replacing the caps to be more important than changing the pickups...i put .o22 caps from radio shack into my epiphones and they came right to life! I got that juicy clean tone that ive previously only been able to get on stage! I am able to achieve my ideal sounds with the amp cranked at home on a Park practice amp!!! even the distortion changed for the better. I get that Slash tone that Ive always wanted. I still cant fathom a .75 part coulda had that big of a difference...

oh.BB thanks for your posts!

[TheSandman1914]

please excuse my over zealous tendency to be a blow hard--remember ive got years of pent up guitar chatter stored in me!---

changing your caps affects your tone even when your tone knob is cranked maximum, at ten. its fun to have that much tonal control

[White]

Well, upgrading the pots, caps and pickups certainly don't guarantee a better tone in the end. What is 'better'? Think about that. Some like it smooth and dark, other people like the tone to be very bright and clear (almost Strat like). To me it doesn't make any sense if you want your Les Paul to sound more Stratty...a Strat will do that much better anyway.

I've changed enough pickups, pots and caps to know what kind of differences these components can make in a Les Paul. They can't make a Les Paul sound great if the tone isn't already there, period.

However, they can take away the mud for the most part (and therefore add more clarity), which seems to be the most common pro-
blem for many Les Pauls. Many also want their pickups to clean up better and therefore to respond better to volume/tone knob adjust-
ments...this is where changes in electronics have the most influence. It can turn out great for your own purposes, but it can also screw
up the true soul of the instrument. Many factors play a part in whether the changes are going to be succesful or not. 300K pots can
work great for some Les Pauls, but suck in most Les Pauls (too dark/undefined/muddy). 500K pots are just right for most Les Pauls.

This is just a small view on it. I can go on forever, but I think I've made my point. Don't mess with it if it sounds great the way it is with the stock pickups, caps, pots. If you want a different tone, buy a different guitar.

[chromewhore2010]

That's what i was getting at with my comment... but i didn't state it very clearly at all. It was too late for smart responses.

[whytheflyband]

Well I think the real point is to put quality components into the circuit. The Factory pieces are junk period. manipulate the values if you wish to get the tone you want but put quality pieces in to at least get the cleanest possible signal. If you can't afford a $5 pot or you are stressing about it you probably shouldn't be worrying about it anyway.

[Liam]

The pots might not change your tone all that much, it's really for functionality that people change them. (Noise, smoothness of taper and so on.) 300K to 500K on volume has an effect on brightness of a guitar, but tone pots? You can get most of the sounds with a crappy pot, but it might take a bit of fine tuning to get to it.

Caps are another thing really. The difference is night and day when I'm standing in front of an amp. Not sure a youtube clip would capture it very well though. We seem to have stepped backwards in quality of recorded sound during the internet revolution.

Liam

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by Liam

The pots might not change your tone all that much, it's really for functionality that people change them. (Noise, smoothness of taper and so on.) 300K to 500K on volume has an effect on brightness of a guitar, but tone pots? You can get most of the sounds with a crappy pot, but it might take a bit of fine tuning to get to it.

I respectfully beg to differ...

[Standard Andrew]

Thanks for all the comments so far.

B-Squared - With the kits from RS is there benefit in changing the selector and jack along side the pots and caps?

Liam - So, would it be worth while trying different caps if better pots only allow for better adjustment of the tone and not necessarily an improvement of the tone? Is it just a matter of soldering out the stock ones and soldering in the new?

On the amp quality, I've got a Vox Amplug (AC30) running through Sennheiser ear buds. Playing my guitar through the Amplug sound much more richer than through my Samick amp so i suppose a new amp would only be an improvement.

I'm starting to get the feeling that I've got a guitar with cheap PUPs, cheap electronics running through a cheap amp and that upgrading only one aspect of the rig isn't going to do much.

[vortexx]

hillbilly, are you saying that getting better pots will make your tone better as opposed to just giving you a better taper?

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by Standard Andrew

Thanks for all the comments so far.

B-Squared - With the kits from RS is there benefit in changing the selector and jack along side the pots and caps?

Liam - So, would it be worth while trying different caps if better pots only allow for better adjustment of the tone and not necessarily an improvement of the tone? Is it just a matter of soldering out the stock ones and soldering in the new?

On the amp quality, I've got a Vox Amplug (AC30) running through Sennheiser ear buds. Playing my guitar through the Amplug sound much more richer than through my Samick amp so i suppose a new amp would only be an improvement.

I'm starting to get the feeling that I've got a guitar with cheap PUPs, cheap electronics running through a cheap amp and that upgrading only one aspect of the rig isn't going to do much.

I'd say you were spot on with your assumption I think an electronics upgrade can yield fantastic results. Both RS Guitar Works and Jones Tone Mojo have great stuff. However, as I have learnt your amp is so, so important. My advice is to save up and get a really nice amp, then start mucking around with your guitars.

A great amp can make an ordinary guitar sound very good

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by vortexx

hillbilly, are you saying that getting better pots will make your tone better as opposed to just giving you a better taper?

Yes, and Tone pots affect the Tone of the guitar, too...

[b-squared]

Originally Posted by Standard Andrew

Thanks for all the comments so far.

B-Squared - With the kits from RS is there benefit in changing the selector and jack along side the pots and caps?

<snip>

I'm starting to get the feeling that I've got a guitar with cheap PUPs, cheap electronics running through a cheap amp and that upgrading only one aspect of the rig isn't going to do much.

When rewiring a guitar I would recommend changing everything out. If you just want to do a quick upgrade I'd just do the pots and caps. There would be very small differences in the actual sound that you probably would not hear (with just a switch/jack change)...from a reliability standpoint it would be a big step up. Upgrading the wire helps as well...Epi uses hair-thin wire for their connections, which I replace with the good 'ol braided wire.

Even a cheap (inexpensive) guitar with quality components can sound great. I myself have a Squire Affinity Tele...I put in good pickups and electronics, upgraded the tuners, had the frets leveled, and now it's a great little player.

Those amplugs sound pretty amazing--it's still on my wish list.

BB

[vortexx]

Hillbilly, any chance you may start offering metric pots in the near future? I would assume there are a lot of Epi etc owners that would like to upgrade. In my case, the guitar I'm pimping out at the moment is an orville by Gibson R59 and don't want to make any permanent mods like making the holes bigger.

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by vortexx

Hillbilly, any chance you may start offering metric pots in the near future? I would assume there are a lot of Epi etc owners that would like to upgrade. In my case, the guitar I'm pimping out at the moment is an orville by Gibson R59 and don't want to make any permanent mods like making the holes bigger.

Not at the moment...the tooling for the RS SuperPot cost a small fortune, and right now that's not an option we can afford to offer. Sorry...