Wiring Library

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Drudeboy

This looks pretty much like stock wiring to me, using the central grounding point on the plate, The pot chassys on the tones controls are grounded by them being bolted to the ground plate, rather than any grounding shield soldered to it.

Your guitar is grounded, all this means is that there is a phyical connection between the strings and the ground of the wiring. Easy to double check this, get a mutilmeter on continuity beep setting, touch your strings with one probe and a pot chassy with the other, then listen.

If your strings aren't connected to the ground, they should be, normally by a piece of wire that connects to the bridge from ground anywhere in the wiring harness.

The strings are not grounded. There is no ground wire connecting to the bridge or tailpiece. That is how they came stock. There is no noise issue due to the large metal shield that screws down over the electronics cavity. No risk of getting shocked because the strings aren't grounded. You can see in the photo there is no ground wire going to the bridge.

I've been told grounding the strings isn't needed and doing so will increase the risk of shock.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

The strings are not grounded. There is no ground wire connecting to the bridge or tailpiece. That is how they came stock. There is no noise issue due to the large metal shield that screws down over the electronics cavity. No risk of getting shocked because the strings aren't grounded.

Normally there should be a ground wire from bridge posts grounding to back of pots.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Lot's of posts in Tone Freaks on wiring, pots, caps etc.

Right...but, what about the stock modern wiring vs. the RS Modern wiring. They are very different, no?

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Normally there should be a ground wire from bridge posts grounding to back of pots.

Not on guitar from this time period...

That's why they have the metal shield...and I'm not talking about the thing the pots are connected to. You can't see it in the photo, but it's a cage that screws over the top of the cavity. This is a '79 Silverburst and that's how they came from the factory: ungrounded.

But, that's besides the point. I don't care about the string grounding issue. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to wire the guitar with new pots and such, regardless of whether or not the strings/bridge is grounded.

If I wanted to ground the strings/bridge, I'd have to drill a new hole in the guitar to route a wire.

[Drudeboy]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

I'm just trying to figure out the best way to wire the guitar with new pots and such, regardless of whether or not the strings/bridge is grounded.
.

If you want it stock, just replaced like for like, if you want 50's, swap the cap connections as clearly shown in the very first post in this thread, it's that simple.

Reagarding the ground with stock pu's the shielding will be suffice though if you change pu's this may change afaik. There is a school of thought that prefers non-grounded strings.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Drudeboy

If you want it stock, just replaced like for like, if you want 50's, swap the cap connections as clearly shown in the very first post in this thread, it's that simple.

Reagarding the ground with stock pu's the shielding will be suffice though if you change pu's this may change afaik. There is a school of thought that prefers non-grounded strings.

My major question is the wiring is vastly different for the stock "modern" wiring vs. how the Modern Kit is wired from RS. I was just curious as to how I should go about wiring the guitar and if there were any major differences between the two.

I may or may not replace the bridge pickup with a Duncan JB in the future, but haven't decided yet. New pots and such are first. I don't really see a need to ground the strings since there is no noise issue.

[Drudeboy]

Originally Posted by Drudeboy

The way I understand it is.....

In reply to my own post on ground connection, after doing a bit of further reading, there is a possibility to inadvertantly create a ground loop. (two paths to ground from the same point) which may or may not cause problems.

In my opinion I don't think it will cause a problem in the context of a les paul cavity, but I thought I'd mention it.

In fact the best method is the 'star' method which the plate uses. ie, all grounds join at the same point, the pillar on the plate.

Back to the subject of grounding the strings, I read this on a website, which may be helpful:-

"On any good quality guitar, you will find a wire running from the bridge
to the earth side of the guitar's wiring. This is the string earth, and is
essential for cutting down string hum and noise, and you can add this item
to replace it altogether.

Wire together in parallel, a 220k ohm resistor (red, red, yellow and
silver or gold) and a .001 capacitor with a minimum voltage rating of 500
volts. Twist the wires and then solder them together on both ends.

Wire this unit inside the guitar between the bridge or tailpiece and the
earth side of the circuit, replacing the string earth wire.

In the event of the chassis going live, it will only send about 40 volts
through the strings, enough to give you a warning tingle without hurting
you. It will allow enough leakage for the string earth to operate
normally. "

[Drudeboy]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

My major question is the wiring is vastly different for the stock "modern" wiring vs. how the Modern Kit is wired from RS. I was just curious as to how I should go about wiring the guitar and if there were any major differences between the two.

I may or may not replace the bridge pickup with a Duncan JB in the future, but haven't decided yet. New pots and such are first. I don't really see a need to ground the strings since there is no noise issue.

I am pretty sure your wiring is stock. The caps look that way for sure. An RS Modern kit will be the same.

[Big John]

The only difference between the stock diagram and your wiring is that yours uses a 3-conductor shielded cable (gray) to send the pickups signals from the volume pots (white/neck pot & red/bridge pot) to the 3-way and then coming back to the output jack (black-to-black connection). In the stock diagram, the equivalent wires would be the two shielded yellow wires going to the 3-way and the shielded wire going to the jack.

Looking at the RS Modern kit on their website, you have to flip it over 180 degrees to get the proper orientation.



Looks like they're just using the Black Rose Custom wiring, but with a wire jumper instead of jumping across with the cap leg.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Drudeboy

I am pretty sure your wiring is stock. The caps look that way for sure. An RS Modern kit will be the same.

RS Modern kit certainly doesn't look the same to me. The end-result may be the same, but my guitar is wired differently from the picture they have on their site.

Originally Posted by Big John

The only difference between the stock diagram and your wiring is that yours uses a 3-conductor shielded cable (gray) to send the pickups signals from the volume pots (white/neck pot & red/bridge pot) to the 3-way and then coming back to the output jack (black-to-black connection). In the stock diagram, the equivalent wires would be the two shielded yellow wires going to the 3-way and the shielded wire going to the jack.

Looking at the RS Modern kit on their website, you have to flip it over 180 degrees to get the proper orientation.



Looks like they're just using the Black Rose Custom wiring, but with a wire jumper instead of jumping across with the cap leg.

So, is there an advantage/disadvantage to wiring it either way (RS/Rose Custom vs. Stock)?

[Drudeboy]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

So, is there an advantage/disadvantage to wiring it either way (RS/Rose Custom vs. Stock)?

I don't think it makes a difference to the way it all works, ie turning the tone down will bring in the connection to ground through a capacitor, therefore bleeding off the high frequencies.

I'm no expert though, so ask RS.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

Right...but, what about the stock modern wiring vs. the RS Modern wiring. They are very different, no?

If you have any questions about RS get a hold of Hillbilly he will be glad to answer them for you bro

[Big John]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

...So, is there an advantage/disadvantage to wiring it either way (RS/Rose Custom vs. Stock)?

The only advantage I can see is stability...having two wires going from pot to pot keeps the pots better spaced when you transfer them from the template to the guitar. Using a cap leg that easily bends isn't as stable. Sonic difference? Doubtful. Ground referrence is the same in both.

[Drudeboy]

Originally Posted by Big John

The only advantage I can see is stability...having two wires going from pot to pot keeps the pots better spaced when you transfer them from the template to the guitar. Using a cap leg that easily bends isn't as stable. Sonic difference? Doubtful. Ground referrence is the same in both.

Oh yeah, it's a pre wired thing, I think you have hit the nail on the head there. Stops it falling to bits in the post

[FourT6and2]

lol they offer the kit in an unwired version as well. So, I could just wire it up to match my stock wiring anyway.

Thanks for the help, everyone! Now I just have to decide if I want to go with 500k pots or stick with my stock value for a darker tone (which I like).

[kingedb]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

lol they offer the kit in an unwired version as well. So, I could just wire it up to match my stock wiring anyway.

Thanks for the help, everyone! Now I just have to decide if I want to go with 500k pots or stick with my stock value for a darker tone (which I like).

just a heads up. RS' superpots rate higher than 500k (you can see their numbers in the picture). gibson's 500k usually don't reach 500k.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by kingedb

just a heads up. RS' superpots rate higher than 500k (you can see their numbers in the picture). gibson's 500k usually don't reach 500k.

I think the stock ones in my guitar are around 250-300k or so. 550k and up is a bit bright for my tastes, I think. I might just have to get lower rated CTS pots instead of RS Superpots, then; especially if I plan on going with a brighter pickup in the future like the Duncan JB.

Is that what you have in the guitar in your Avatar? What do you have for electronics and such?

[Big John]

.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Big John

Just an FYI...

CTS 500k long shaft: $5 ea. @ Warmoth
Jensen PIO caps: $21.75 ea. @ Reference Audio Mods



Google is your friend.

Ok, I appreciate the help. But, I already know where to get parts....
Besides the wiring questions I had, I'm still debating if I want 500k or the stock 250k/300k pots. That's all.

[Big John]

I erased my post because I found even cheaper sources than that, 10 seconds after I posted.

Oh, and just get the 500k. You can turn it into a 330K pot later by putting a 1meg resistor between the input lug and the ground.

[kingedb]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

I think the stock ones in my guitar are around 250-300k or so. 550k and up is a bit bright for my tastes, I think. I might just have to get lower rated CTS pots instead of RS Superpots, then; especially if I plan on going with a brighter pickup in the future like the Duncan JB.

Is that what you have in the guitar in your Avatar? What do you have for electronics and such?

i figured if you were on the fence about 500k then superpots would be out of the question. i have no idea how your beauty sounds right now, but i'd be surpised if you couldn't dial down to a nice deep tone with the superpots. they are great.

i just installed an rs modern kit along with the jb. its not too bright for me at all.

search around and get info on checking the DC resistance on those pots. it may save you from trial and error. the only downside is you may need to disconnect a few things to get an accurate reading.

[sidepartings26]

Originally Posted by Drudeboy

The way I understand it is, as long as everything that needs to be connected to ground is, in any way, connected, it doesn't matter how you do it. Like on the metal plate, all the grounds from the pots, jack, switch, pu's just all come together and join there.

I suppose in theory you could connect a wire, insulated or not, to each ground on each part, ie. a wire from each pu ground, a wire from each pot case and lug that requires a connection to ground and one from the switch, then connect all these wires together and have one single wire from this bunch to the jack ground, it would work the same. If you metered this with a multimeter set on beep for continuity, and placed probes to measure between any two pot casing, it would beep.

It doesn't really matter what route the ground takes, it doesn't matter if you dont have a loop of ground outer braid going in a circle from pot to pot, as long as it all meets up at the jack ground, as each pot will have a physical connection to the ground, and to each others ground.

The different layouts on drawings or photos are just different ways of achieving the same thing (as opposed to a circuit diagram)

I found this post really helpful thanks

[sidepartings26]

THIS IS GOING TO BE MY FIRST USEFUL POST:

Unbelievably I didn't have any of the issues I thought I had.

First of all I rewired my guitar using new everything (switch, wire, pots). I used 4 way pickup wire. The first time I rewired my guitar both pickups could be heard when I was selecting only one. I couldn't figure it out, so I resoldered everything. The same thing happened. Hillbilly said something must be touching something it's not meant to be. I ditched the ground plate.

The second time I ordered a new kit with a new switch because I was really stressed out. I redid the whole thing. I'm pretty good at soldering so I didn't think it was that. The same thing again. When isolating a pickup using the switch I was hearing both pickups.

I thought it must be some sort of loop issue so I started arguiing a bit with Jonesy (above) about grounding the wire from the jack. Anyway I redid the whole circuit this time using braided wire and 50's wiring. Same thing pickups both on at same time when shouldn't be.

Despairing I phoned my father. He said what about the switch. I said this is the 2nd new switch I'm on. He said 'doesn't mean cause it's new it works'.

I checked the switch. BOTH new switches I had in this process were faulty. I switched back to my original and the whole thing worked. What was happening was when selecting treble or rythm the opposite bar was not getting taken out by the bottom of the toggle (not 'pushed away' from the circuit). Like in this picture the 2 little balls in the middle are still connected so both pickups are on:



It's fixed now. Here is how I wired the cavity:



I did this last week but I thought I should give as well as receive. When I took these shots I took a quick one of my guitar. It's 8pm here so the light doesn't reflect well on it but anyway, my only Gibson les paul (standard):



When I get time (rushing to watch Chelsea vs Barcelona) I will post pics in the welcome thread of it and me. I also need to update my profile now I have a few posts.

Thanks everyone especially Jonesy, if I knew how to do the thank you thing I would.

[jonesy]

Nice post and great pics bro, looks like you did a good job with the soldering etc. glad I could be of some help How does it sound now??

[Drudeboy]

Originally Posted by sidepartings26

THIS IS GOING TO BE MY FIRST USEFUL POST:

Unbelievably I didn't have any of the issues I thought I had.

snipped

Very tidy job sido, it really isn't that complicated once you get the drift, I sympathise with the switch fault throwing you. If you're going to do more of this type of thing, get a digital multimeter, it can really help with diagnosing and tracking down problems like this.

I'm currently half way through a project to 're-populate' the PCB from my 2008 std with improved caps and pots. I'm going explain and post pics of this process soon. The post will probably appear in the main les paul room, it's going to be called "The Taming of The Beast, Removing the Mystery of The 2008 PCB"

stay tuned

[Rick-BJ]

Hi folk,
today i got my GFS Dream 90's installed it with this wiring schedule :


and it worked, well kinda, i think it isnt grounded well since when i dont touch the guitar it makes alot of noise, i think i know why because the gfs have 2 wires and some sort of stick/wire, wich is the ground i think, its some sort of 3rd wire, does anybody know what i can do with this one to get rid of the noise?

Thanks

[Rick-BJ]

Nevermind guys, i just soldered them on the ground and it works great

[xsouldriverx]

would anyone be kind enough to post a diagram of a p90neck, HBbridge, 2vol, 2tone diagram. would it be the same as the 50wiring and i just treat the p90 as a 2 conductor hb?

also in will instructions it mentions standard HB and parallel. whats the difference? do i just use the standard colors because im not doing anything fancy?

[Alpedra]

Ok.. let me see if I understood correctly after browsing through many topics about the modern vs 50s wiring.

This is my les paul control cavity:



It has the modern wiring. If I want to change to 50s, all I have to do is change the tone cap end to the vol pot center plug?

Thanks in advace..

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by xsouldriverx

would anyone be kind enough to post a diagram of a p90neck, HBbridge, 2vol, 2tone diagram. would it be the same as the 50wiring and i just treat the p90 as a 2 conductor hb?

also in will instructions it mentions standard HB and parallel. whats the difference? do i just use the standard colors because im not doing anything fancy?

A P-90 has 2 wires and so does a PAF so no difference on wiring them up.
Most Humbuckers are normally wired in series, the parallel wiring is an option and is slightly more subdued and not as strong as the series wiring.