boston tone

[googy36]

anyone know what i could use to get that boston tone thanks gordon

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by googy36

anyone know what i could use to get that boston tone thanks gordon

go get a rockman

[b-squared]

I pulled this from another forum:

I read in an old guitar magazine interview with Tom that before he developed the Rockman gear he used a Marshall fed into a power soak which was reamped into an Ampeg head feeding a 4x12 with the celestions of the day. Although he didn't say it, I'm sure he used heavy EQ-ing before and after the Marshall, along with delay and his custom made chorus. You could do the same thing with a Hotplate and a second amp.

So in general you could take a given amp and use predistortion and post distortion EQ along with a delay and chorus after that to emulate a good Boston sound. Use the pre-EQ for boosting the mids and the post-EQ for overall tone shaping.

On the delay, if you have the benefit of a stereo set up, you would use 100% dry on one side and 100% wet/echo on the other side at 100% level, no repeats. Adjust your settings/mix downward slightly to taste.

Enjoy...

BB

[googy36]

thanks guys do you mean something like a Rockman Distortion Generator

[b-squared]

Scholz didn't use that Rockman stuff until the 3rd album, I believe.

If you look on eBay you can find all kinds of Rockman modules; if you're very lucky you'll find the head with the modules incorporated.

It'll get you very close, but not quite the sound of the 1st album...that's all Marshall.

I think the Rockman comment above was done tongue-in-cheek.

BB

[marshallcrazy]

b-squared, rest assured, all is well. HILLBILLY IS HERE!!

[Harpozep]

Scholz says he bought a huge pile of Rockman gear to get the Boston sound live. I believe him there.
I'll try and dig the article up since it is online.

[61LPSG]

I have a Rockman from the '80's and it will give you that sound with just about any humbucker equipped guitar.
It was actually a pretty decent portable practice amp, and an easy way to record to a stereo system or tape deck.
I've seen them sell on e*B*a*y for around $75.
Hey buy mine.

[Blues Power]

i got pretty close with an MXR D+ and a music man HD 65 with brite switch on.

prob can do the same tone with the mxr and a twin or super also

[b-squared]

Originally Posted by marshallcrazy

b-squared, rest assured, all is well. HILLBILLY IS HERE!!

Hey man--good to see you here!

BB

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by b-squared

I think the Rockman comment above was done tongue-in-cheek.

BB

Nope Not at all. I was dead serious

I know nothing about Tom 's history of using his own technology.

I do know this:

the 1st Boston album came out, shortly afterwards I bought the rack modules and everything I recorded sounded like BOSTON

People gave me so much crap, saying every thing you do sounds like Boston
I loved all my Rockman stuff, I only sold it 'cause I got so much shit.

So I repeat; If you want that Boston sound, get a Rockman

[hedzeppelin]

Well, my RAT pedal gets pretty close to the Boston Sound....
I also EQ the pedal. That is, when I step on the RAT, I'll step on my
DOD Graphic Equalizer....

[eddie_bowers]

The rockman rackmount stuff is nice, just not very versitile sound wise.
I used a Furman PQ-4 with my Rockman Sustainor to give me more variations.
I'm actually selling all that rackmount stuff right now if anyone is interested. The PQ-4 is up on eBay now, and the Rockman Sustainor (with the double modual 19" rack mount) will probably go up next.

Just looking at one will give you an idea of how to get that sound. There is several notch filters in it to pull out particular frequency ranges.

-Eddie

[b-squared]

I think the stereo chorus module is most excellent...very good chorus for the $$.

No disrespect intended, RFR; your one-liner just came off the wrong way...unfortunately there's no inflexion on the internet...

BB

[Roman Rist]

Originally Posted by b-squared

I think the stereo chorus module is most excellent...very good chorus for the $$.

No disrespect intended, RFR; your one-liner just came off the wrong way...unfortunately there's no inflexion on the internet...

BB

BB, No disrespect taken.
I just wanted to clarify my one-liner

[Harpozep]

Originally Posted by RFR

Nope Not at all. I was dead serious

I know nothing about Tom 's history of using his own technology.

I do know this:

the 1st Boston album came out, shortly afterwards I bought the rack modules and everything I recorded sounded like BOSTON

People gave me so much crap, saying every thing you do sounds like Boston
I loved all my Rockman stuff, I only sold it 'cause I got so much shit.

So I repeat; If you want that Boston sound, get a Rockman

I belive ya! That's what Tom said he does for playing Boston stuff on the road. I have to find that article it is on the internet somewhere. I read it last month.

Here it is, at the Gibson site:

Gibson.com Features
The money quote:

"One more key to the classic Boston sound is Rockman processing and amplification equipment. Developed by Scholz as a mini guitar amp to be played through headphones, the Rockman grew into an entire company. “I sold the business,” he said, “but I kept enough of the gear to equip the entire band, hopefully forever. We’re always looking to buy back various pieces. Almost every piece up there is a Rockman device. And a lot in the studio is also. The only way we’re able to perform those Boston songs onstage is with that Rockman stage equipment.



“I’ve got to say they sound awesome with Gibson guitars,” he added “All of that Rockman stuff was designed specifically for Gibson guitars. That was all we had to design the processing for. Then we went in as an afterthought and checked them out with some of the Fender lines.”

Here's my favorite pic of Tom, showing he's a mad showman:

[Harpozep]

This sums it up real well. Remember that Rockman gear has a lot of Blue on it:

[b-squared]

I dig the Mighty Mouse decal.

I used to have a pic of Tom's original pedal board used on the first album; it was crazy. He had a couple-three Marshalls in the background as well. He had a pedal rig to control the echoplex tape speed (rocket sounds and synth sounds). Pretty cool stuff.

Dang it, I can;t find the pics...

BB

[61LPSG]

Originally Posted by Harpozep

I belive ya! That's what Tom said he does for playing Boston stuff on the road. I have to find that article it is on the internet somewhere. I read it last month.

Here it is, at the Gibson site:

Gibson.com Features
The money quote:

"One more key to the classic Boston sound is Rockman processing and amplification equipment. Developed by Scholz as a mini guitar amp to be played through headphones, the Rockman grew into an entire company. “I sold the business,” he said, “but I kept enough of the gear to equip the entire band, hopefully forever. We’re always looking to buy back various pieces. Almost every piece up there is a Rockman device. And a lot in the studio is also. The only way we’re able to perform those Boston songs onstage is with that Rockman stage equipment.



“I’ve got to say they sound awesome with Gibson guitars,” he added “All of that Rockman stuff was designed specifically for Gibson guitars. That was all we had to design the processing for. Then we went in as an afterthought and checked them out with some of the Fender lines.”

Here's my favorite pic of Tom, showing he's a mad showman:

+1, It's hardnNOT to sound like Boston with a Rockman.
The mini-amp has 3 different settings: Clean, Edge, and Dist. But even the Clean has his signature chorus sound.

[hillbilly]

There's lots of info if you know where to look...






RockmanCentral.com

Check out 'Articles'...

MG: What kind of 12-string acoustic did you use on "More Than a Feeling"?

SCHOLZ: That was a $100 Yamaha. When the band was first signed, the so-called "band" went to L.A., booked studio time, and went into the studio every week. They stayed out there as a cover, pretending to record the album, while I recorded the album back home in Massachusetts in my basement studio. There is only one song on the album that was recorded in L.A., which is the last song on side two, "Let Me Take You Home Tonight." While Brad was in L.A., they bought him a custom-made 12-string that was $2000, and, meanwhile, I'm back in my basement with a $100 Yamaha, recording a track that's going to sell about 20 million records! I wish I still had that guitar! [laughs]

MG: What was the first quality electric you owned?

SCHOLZ: The '68 Les Paul Goldtop that I've used for just about every Boston track. At the time, that guitar was a reissue of a Fifties Les Paul. I had the misfortune of buying one and learning how to play on it, because it has a neck like a log! It had P90s non-humbuckers on it originally, and I replaced the P-90s with DiMarzio Super Humbuckers.

MG: What percentage of your sound comes from that guitar?

SCHOLZ: None. It's a really nice-sounding guitar, but if I had to get my sound with another guitar, I could definitely do it.

MG: What kind of amps did you use on the first album?

SCHOLZ: That was a combination of an old 100-watt Marshall head and a prototype Power Soak. I never recorded anything without that Power Soak. I built the Power Soak because of the need to bring down the gain, but without losing the saturation of the sound. I also used an Ampeg V4. For speakers, I used standard issue Marshall cabs.

MG: How would you describe your miking techniques?

SCHOLZ: I used whatever was handy. If you dare to mike a Marshall cab, you will never get the mic back in the same place and get the same exact sound twice. If you move the mic even just a few inches, the sound will be utterly different. It won't even sound like the same amplifier. Those 4x12 cabinets yield a lot of phase cancellation, plus the cabinet has unbelievable directionality. I used to have to keep those cabinets pointed anyplace except towards the audience, because one person would hear the sound 10db louder, with a totally different tone, than the person standing five feet away. The best solution was to come up with a sound and then feed it through the PA. Eventually, I stopped using Marshalls and 4x1 2 cabs altogether, because, even though I carried a dozen with me on tour, I couldn't keep two at a time in proper working order-they were too temperamental.

Eventually, I sprang for my own serious AC power supplies, so I could set the voltages exactly. Then I could get a good, repeatable sound, and much better lifespan out of the amps. When I got the Power Soak thing together, I took measurements of voltages and currents in various parts of the head, and then set the resistance of the Power Soak, which is strictly passive resistance. But it was still so cumbersome to use the Marshall stacks, and there was no way to switch sounds as effectively as I needed. Later, I designed more streamlined things that I could change tone easily with.

Back on those old recordings, there were a few times when I was able to get a rhythm sound that I liked, but, most of the time, I was going crazy with equalizers after the track had been recorded. I didn't get that under control until Walk On, when I used the Rockman system combined with Marshalls. I would switch between the two set-ups, and could not tell which one was which. There are little nuances at the beginnings and ends of notes that do sound different, but that's it. I'd have them both cooking, and I'd just pick one or the other, depending on what I was looking for. I'd switch back and forth even for a different chord within the same chorus section. That worked really well, because I finally got some direct sounds out of the Marshall that I was really happy with. I felt I finally got the process together; I didn't have to listen to the track over and over, and listen endlessly to previous tracks and all that. That used to drive me crazy.

[Harpozep]

Yeah! Great find!:thum b:

Funny, I love Boston and learned all the songs on the first album just as I was learning guitar.
Never owned a Rockman though. Lean gear buying times in the Eighties since I had college. Bought more gear before and after the eighties. sold most of it to get through school.

Still have a Scholz Power soak though.

[BOBBO]

If i remember correctly Tom used a vintage Goldtop that he ripped the PAF's out of and put DiMarzio Super distortions in for most of his stuff ! Tom was also notorius for layering the guitars heavily which give it that chorus sound !

[b-squared]

HillBilly to the rescue.

BB

[hillbilly]

Originally Posted by b-squared

HillBilly to the rescue.

BB

Dispelling myth, rumour & hear-say in a single bound.

Originally Posted by BOBBO

If i remember correctly Tom used a vintage Goldtop that he ripped the PAF's out of and put DiMarzio Super distortions in for most of his stuff !

MG: What was the first quality electric you owned?

SCHOLZ: The '68 Les Paul Goldtop that I've used for just about every Boston track. At the time, that guitar was a reissue of a Fifties Les Paul. I had the misfortune of buying one and learning how to play on it, because it has a neck like a log! It had P90s non-humbuckers on it originally, and I replaced the P-90s with DiMarzio Super Humbuckers.



More Info...

Source

Originally Posted by BOBBO

Tom was also notorius for layering the guitars heavily which give it that chorus sound !

True, but check this out:

The "Doubler"
Probably the most obvious departure in the Boston sound from your run-of-the-mill heavy metal sludge is Scholz' thick, yet clear lead guitar lines, partially accomplished with the aid of a device called a doubler, designed by Scholz and a friend. "That's what we call it," explains Tom, "though doubler is kind of a misnomer. It does more than, say, an Echoplex or tape delay that just gives you a repeat. We designed it to approximate the same sound as when you dub over a guitar part twice: it adds a pitch change to the time delay. You can build the same type of unit with commercially available devices, but I think that unless you were filthy rich, it wouldn't justify the cost. You would need a regular delay unit, a harmonizer, and an oscillator-- nothing very complicated. Since we were broke at the time, and since the technology wasn't very complicated, we built our own." Because the doubler gives Scholz such a rich, heavy sound, Tom is the only one of Boston's three guitarists [the other two are Barry Goudreau on lead and rhythm and singer Bradley Delp on rhythm] to use the device onstage. "Anything more than that would get too messy," Tom explains.

To simulate the sound onstage that he gets on record, Scholz runs the guitar signal and the signal from the doubler in stereo, which duplicates, he says, "the old recording trick of using two rhythm guitars panned to the outside." The device, however, can be used in mono, and Tom describes that result as "sounding sort of flanged."

Source: bottom of page.

No biggie, just clarifying...

[b-squared]

I think I've learned more here about Scholtz than in all the years I've been listening to the albums.

Thanks Billy.

BB

[BOBBO]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

Dispelling myth, rumour & hear-say in a single bound.












True, but check this out:




No biggie, just clarifying...

I stand corrected !! Very cool info HillBilly !!

[LoKi]

To me it always sounded like Scholz had a wah pedal just open, or an envelope filter set in just that 'open' spot all the time *Solo tone anyway*.

I can get a good Boston sound with my JCM 800 and my wah pedal. Its not perfect, but passable.

[SoloDallas]

Wow. What a wealth of information. Thumbs up!

[mannydingo]

Time to bring this thread back from its coma. I read Tom stating that his Les Paul only came with single coils. We all know that. After they made it big, he found that the huge number of lights were making those singles make noise/hum like crazy. That's when he decided to change the pickups to humbuckers. Remember, they didn't have the noise covering technology we have today. That would mean the first album was recorded with the single coils. I'm sure I've opened a few eyes there, huh?

That picture that looks like a before-and-after picture is not actually that. It can't be. The very last sentence of the first paragraph here proves that even though the picture doesn't:

http://www.rockmancentral.com/RockmanCentral/Start.html

At that page, go to the left of the page and click on "The Boston Sound". On that next page, click on "Les Paul GoldTop"

[rickym]

Originally Posted by mannydingo

Time to bring this thread back from its coma. I read Tom stating that his Les Paul only came with single coils. We all know that. After they made it big, he found that the huge number of lights were making those singles make noise/hum like crazy. That's when he decided to change the pickups to humbuckers. Remember, they didn't have the noise covering technology we have today. That would mean the first album was recorded with the single coils. I'm sure I've opened a few eyes there, huh?

That picture that looks like a before-and-after picture is not actually that. It can't be. The very last sentence of the first paragraph here proves that even though the picture doesn't:

RockmanCentral.com

At that page, go to the left of the page and click on "The Boston Sound". On that next page, click on "Les Paul GoldTop"

Agreed. Two totally different guitars. There's little fine print to the left of each guitar. The info below the pic doesn't talk about the Goldtop on the left. The info above it is inaccurate regarding the "MightyMouse" LP.