WTF is up with my Epi LP wiring?

[Leo_Gibson]

Hi guys / gals(?),

This year I'm going to finally, FINALLY get myself a Les Paul ... and I've decided that I'm going to personally test out a few modifications e.g. 50's wiring, different caps, different pups, different tail / stopbar etc etc - BUT I'm going to do this in two steps...

1) I'm going to try some of it on my Epi LP first to practice e.g. wiring - as I'm not too fussed if that gets a soldering iron burn etc...

2) I'm going to play it stock for however many days / weeks, then mod one thing at a time slowly over a period of days / weeks so that I can determine for myself what sort of difference is being made... nothing beats personal experience!

Anyway, to the point of this particular post:

I just cracked open my Epi LP to have a look at the wiring (I'm gonna try 50's wiring within the next week or so - but I was a bit shocked to see a rather complicated affair going on inside - can anybody tell me what the heck is going on in there and what I need to do?!

Cheers,

Leo











Apologies for the dodgy paint-style drawing, not sure if that's helping or not!?

[Leo_Gibson]

...also, what's the difference between the "Tonefreaks" forum and "The Custom Shop"? or is it just that this is one of those topics that'd suit both?

[dennistruckdriver]

Your wiring looks normal. Is that a Japanese Epiphone?
Wiring is a 'Tonefreaks' subject.

[Leo_Gibson]

No idea if it's a MIJ Epi or not, I've had it since about 2001 (got it 2nd hand) - is there a good place to enter the serial number to find out?

The wiring looked a lot simpler on the "Wiring Library" sticky - I'm confused as to why the caps are only on the tone pots, and not bridging between tone and vol, for instance...

[jonesy]

Typical import wiring pretty much, chiclet caps, at least you don't have the white plug-in thingy from the switch like the Chinese epi wiring does.

[Leo_Gibson]

So if this is typical wiring, what is it doing differently to standard Gibson LP wiring? I mean, it's doing the same job, right?

And importantly, how do I turn this into 50's wiring?

[dennistruckdriver]

Originally Posted by Leo_Gibson

....how do I turn this into 50's wiring?....

I have 'heard' from various members here that the '50s wiring did not suit them or their particular guitar or style of playing. What is it about the '50s wiring that you wish to install it on your guitar?

[Leo_Gibson]

Same reason as most folk - too much treble loss when turning down the vol! Plus it's a free & easily reversibly mod - and as many have pointed out, modern wiring works on some guitars in some applications and 50's in others, but I'd like to find out from PERSONAL EXPERIENCE!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Leo_Gibson

So if this is typical wiring, what is it doing differently to standard Gibson LP wiring? I mean, it's doing the same job, right?

And importantly, how do I turn this into 50's wiring?

I said typical import wiring not typical Gibson wirng..here is what 50's should look like, compare you what you have with this and you will see it is different You also you have import metric pots and cheap caps vs CTS Pots and PIO caps.

[Leo_Gibson]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I said typical import wiring not typical Gibson wirng..here is what 50's should look like, compare you what you have with this and you will see it is different You also you have import metric pots and cheap caps vs CTS Pots and PIO caps.

Ah my mistake! - I can see that they're different, just not really sure exactly what it is that's going on, nor how I can convert?!

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Leo_Gibson

Ah my mistake! - I can see that they're different, just not really sure exactly what it is that's going on, nor how I can convert?!

You can convert what you have to either 50's or modern wiring, but it will take a little re-doing. Take a look at how your tone caps connect back to Tone pots vs going from Tone Pot to center lug on volume pots like the 50's wiring.

[Leo_Gibson]

Originally Posted by jonesy

You can convert what you have to either 50's or modern wiring, but it will take a little re-doing. Take a look at how your tone caps connect back to Tone pots vs going from Tone Pot to center lug on volume pots like the 50's wiring. [/COLOR][/B]

Yeah that confused me a bit. What confused me even more is when I studied one of the images in the "Wiring Library" thread where there were FOUR caps instead of two?!

Is there a really good website anywhere that lays out everything from scratch? I haven't even touched a soldering Iron in about 8 years but I'd like to re-learn some basic electronics and guitars seem pretty damn simple (saying that, it really would be re-learning - I've forgotten everything, I look and just see wires at the moment - they don't mean anything, the lugs of the pots mean nothing to me )

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Leo_Gibson

Yeah that confused me a bit. What confused me even more is when I studied one of the images in the "Wiring Library" thread where there were FOUR caps instead of two?!

Is there a really good website anywhere that lays out everything from scratch? I haven't even touched a soldering Iron in about 8 years but I'd like to re-learn some basic electronics and guitars seem pretty damn simple (saying that, it really would be re-learning - I've forgotten everything, I look and just see wires at the moment - they don't mean anything, the lugs of the pots mean nothing to me )

There are lot's of good posts here in Tone freaks, also check my pics folder in my profile it has several wiring diagrams for LP's. Seymour Duncan site has loads of info as well. Some LP's sound better with 50's and some sound better with the modern wiring. I have my 06' Gibson Studio LP wired modern because it sounds thicker and better to me than it did when I had it wired 50's style. Best to do a little tinkering so you know what is right for you.

[lifele55]

Can't offer any help here...but I'm curious to see what MIJ is that. Like dennis said, it definitely looks like MIJ wiring.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by lifele55

Can't offer any help here...but I'm curious to see what MIJ is that. Like dennis said, it definitely looks like MIJ wiring.

Yeah the made in japan on the pots is a good clue

[paulygates]

Personally, I wouldn't worry about how it is wired at the moment. I would rip out the pots, caps, switch and wires and put in some decent 500k pots and PIO caps and wire it 50's.

To be honest I don't know a lot about how it all works but 50's seems a lot more simple to do than the way these imports are done. They are a bit of a mess!! Plus, like you say, you won't lose the treble when you roll off the volume. You will find that you can actually use your knobs instead of just diming them.

It would be good to learn why a particular wire goes where it does and what happens if it goes somewhere else.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by paulygates

<snip>
It would be good to learn why a particular wire goes where it does and what happens if it goes somewhere else.

If you look at the modern wiring and the 50's wiring the main difference is how the cap lead is connected to the volume pot. With the cap connected to the outside lug (pu wire) you get the modern wiring, a bit warmer. If you connect the cap lead to center lug on volume (switch wire) you get the 50's wiring and it gives a slightly brighter Tone. results will vary depending on the pu's you are using, as well as your pots & caps.

[paulygates]

Thanks Jonesy.

Now I know what the difference is between the two lugs. Which begs the question - Whats the other one for?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by paulygates

Thanks Jonesy.

Now I know what the difference is between the two lugs. Which begs the question - Whats the other one for?

Your welcome...The 3rd lug is just grounded back to the case.