Guitarist that once had great tone-but now is different or just plain bad.

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

How do you go from this:

To this:

Age. I hear it's incurable, highly contagious and 100% fatal.

[Big John]

I may get beat-up a little bit on this. As SRV's recording carrer went on, his recorded tone got worse. To my ears, his best recorded tone was the first album, Texas Flood.

[dork5002002]

I kind of agree with some of the stuff said about clapton. I thought he sounded great with creme, and I think he is still a good guitarists. His sound did change, but I don't think it is really worse. Its just different. As for the overrated part, I agree. He was great and did cool stuff, but I get tired of hearing how he is a guitar god by some of the people around me.

[Horse]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

I've heard a lot of people make that comment. I've also met a lot of otherwise competent rock players (and a few blues players, too) who can't even begin to play his stuff right.

There is more to being a great player than calisthenics.

its like doing impressions of people, you can be a real good guitar player, and copy the tchnique of others great, but some you just cant do !

[mattymel]

at the top of the all time most overrated list HAS to be clapton. the whole "clapton is god" era has always been an enigma to me. true that he once had a decent sound. but who wouldnt with unlimited funds back in the day when all there was was gibson guitars and marshall amps. whoopdeedoo. "womantone"? clapton plays licks he lifted off of other people's records proficiently, and with little mojo. kind of an important thing when you are supposed to be playing the blues.
...i would have to disagree that santana is overrated. i think he has fallen on two rough periods during his career. the eighties were very unkind (as they were to everyone) and the recent records are of course laughable. but i got free tickets to go see him from a student of mine a few years back...and he killed it. IMO his phrasing is really on a different level from any other rock guitarist. he has more understanding of dynamics, tone, phrasing, and feel in one finger than most "guitar gods" even dream of. listen to him play "europa" from any concert in the 70s and you will hear a completely different rendition every night. he is real deal. as long as he isnt playing Messof Poopie amps, he sound is always nails. and he is actually very humble on top of it all and always has something good to say, even when he is rambling on about aliens.

[cynic79]

Originally Posted by Blues4U

...

That last Clapton clip was great. That's sort of classic strat blues tone. I just feel his current tone is just a little tweak away from being good. A little too much lows and a little light on the treble and it's really too compressed and mushy at the same time if that is possible. It's just sort of weird for me to describe what I don't like about it but I know what I don't like about it when I hear.

...

That pretty much sums up my feelings on Clapton's tone. I don't mind the Strat through Fender tone at all, but he usually sounds so vanilla through that rig.

I've never been much of a Rolling Stones fan (like the Beatles, their music may just be too ubiquitous for me to appreciate), but Keith Richards has almost always been a really solid player with a great tone. Not the flashiest player, but he gets the job done.

I agree with whoever mentioned Stone Gossard and Mike McCready from Pearl Jam, although their tone has always been hit or miss. I did like a lot of McCready's stuff on the Mad Season album. Strat + Phase 90 + Marshall =

[Deftone]

Originally Posted by Lance_S

I hate to say it but EV. I still play quite a bit of his old stuff and it was pure genius. Fair Warning is still a favorite for me. But his later stuff just didn't have the tone and creativity. O.K. Putting flame retardant suit on now, Let er rip.

EV is still one of, if not my all time favorite. But I'm quick to also say that only applies to VH1-1984 (and 1984 is so-so) Fair Warning is the guitarists' album. I'll always appreciate him for the early years.

I've just come to accept it. New artists are young and hungry and motivated. I think there needs to be a certain amount of pain involved to write really good, deep music with soul (hence the blues?)

Some musicians hit their peak early on and some later but with fame and fortune comes complacency and an easy life. The good, raw tone usually goes away with the soulful music.

That's my take on it anyway.

[redlir]

Originally Posted by SpinWheelz

Pearl Jam's Mike McCready and Stone Gossard. Have a listen to "Ten", then have a listen to the crap they've produced this millenium. It makes you want to go up to each of them and ask, "Why are you so full of self-loathing?"

Interesting, I think the complete opposite is true.

[Real_Hip_Hop]

Craig Chaquico

From This (Couldn't find a pic with a LP, but he did play one)

http://www.carvinmuseum.com/images/craigchaquico.jpg

To this

http://www3.webng.com/alturkkaan/Cra.../39d5366f.jpeg

If You don't know, he was the lead guitarist for Jefferson Starship. Amazing guitarist. Then he decided to play smooth jazz!!!!

YouTube - Jefferson Starship - Awakening

YouTube - Jefferson Starship - Awakening

To

You Tube

You Tube

Still good musically, but just not my cup of tea.

[jimmypagekills]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

How do you go from this:

To this:

I'll tell you: Too much cocaine and too many endorsement deals. I wish he'd have stayed with the junkyard axe and the voltage starved marshall. Not to mention the bomb-housed Univox!

You know what's sad too? He's suing Nike right now for "stealing" his 5150 striped shoe design, 7 YEARS before he released the overpriced things!

[alpinestudio]

I happen to like the new Eddie. Before, I was against it. I was like..what the heck happened? That was decades ago as he had to leave that tone behind and reinvent himself. I actually love his new tone now than his old brown sound. Call me crazy, but the guy still has an ear for tone..whether its from his gear or his fingers.

Originally Posted by hillbilly

How do you go from this:

To this:

[Pink_Floyd]

I think there is two Claptons, the one that plays for money and the one who plays 'cause he wants to play. Guess which one is better......

[Horse]

Originally Posted by mattymel

...i would have to disagree that santana is overrated. i think he has fallen on two rough periods during his career. the eighties were very unkind (as they were to everyone) and the recent records are of course laughable. but i got free tickets to go see him from a student of mine a few years back...and he killed it. IMO his phrasing is really on a different level from any other rock guitarist. he has more understanding of dynamics, tone, phrasing, and feel in one finger than most "guitar gods" even dream of. listen to him play "europa" from any concert in the 70s and you will hear a completely different rendition every night. he is real deal. as long as he isnt playing Messof Poopie amps, he sound is always nails. and he is actually very humble on top of it all and always has something good to say, even when he is rambling on about aliens.

you guys floor me........

[badhabit]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

How do you go from this:

To this:

30 years and 60 MILLION SOLD

[asher67]

Originally Posted by mattymel

at the top of the all time most overrated list HAS to be clapton. the whole "clapton is god" era has always been an enigma to me. true that he once had a decent sound. but who wouldnt with unlimited funds back in the day when all there was was gibson guitars and marshall amps. whoopdeedoo. "womantone"? clapton plays licks he lifted off of other people's records proficiently, and with little mojo. kind of an important thing when you are supposed to be playing the blues.

You must not have grown up in the '60s. It is easy, sitting here today, to compare Clapton to so many other guitarists and question his relevance. Just imagine, though, that the only guitarists you've heard, other than the Beatles, are the Ventures and maybe Eddie Cochran. Blues artists weren't played on the radio in most Metropolitan areas, not until after the white players became popular. Clapton, Page, and Beck were incredible pioneers for rock guitar, due in no small part to their blues roots and their adaptation of the blues to rock. Hendrix was other-worldly, and took guitar to another dimension (kind of a Les Paul of the '60s), but Clapton was the bridge to much of what is played today. Most of us had never heard a guitar sound that way before. I don't think it merited the "god" title, but most people I knew thought of it as tongue-in-cheek anyway.

By the way, Les Pauls and Marshalls were not that expensive back then, and Clapton was not rich. As for the "womantone" and other creativity, check out this great post by Splattle101.

[zplapplap]

I didn't grow up in the 60's, but I know a good post.

[BstrdSonOJmsBrwn]

Originally Posted by sidepartings26

Clapton

Possibly one of the most over rated guitarists ever.

IMO....no possibly about it........

[BstrdSonOJmsBrwn]

and "my guy" for this thread.....is Ritchie Blackmore.....i'm an uber-geek for Ritchie and all the Deep Purple and Rainbow stuff........and its NOT that his playing skills and chops and tone are bad now......but its the fact he has abandoned rock altogether and the electric guitar for the most part....... how can ya go from THIS!!!




to this??(not that its ALL bad....but....WTF???)


granted.....Ritchie has always liked some fucked up hats(if you're into Ritchie.....you know what i'm talking about....lol)

[highenuff]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

how do you go from this:

to this:

i agree +++++1

[weirdotis]

Originally Posted by SpinWheelz

Pearl Jam's Mike McCready and Stone Gossard. Have a listen to "Ten", then have a listen to the crap they've produced this millenium. It makes you want to go up to each of them and ask, "Why are you so full of self-loathing?"

Yeah, he did have AMAZING tone in the early days (think Yellow Ledbetter) but now... well... you know

[johnny q]

Originally Posted by sidepartings26

Clapton

Possibly one of the most over rated guitarists ever.

Whoa! - them fightin' words pal!

However....

I agree.

JQ

[mattymel]

sorry, i just have read all of the "mystique" about clapton over the years. stuff said that is just plain silly..."he locked himself in a room with ONLY a guitar for a MONTH". who HASN'T done that? especially if you didnt have a day job. yes, also he pretty much did have unlimited funds...my point was there was really no other way to go but marshall back then. they were the only good amps you could get in england. and they were relatively inexpensive by todays standards.

[TM1]

Having witnessed it first hand.. Neil Schon.. Went from great to tinny/shitty.

[mojo69]

WOW! Clapton has dominated this thread. Clapton, along with the majority of the guitarist mentioned here, were and are still relevant today. They were the real deal and played from the heart. Only a true artist can survive decades of changing trends and musical ideas. If their hearts were'nt in it, they would have dissapeared and been forgotten a long, long, time ago. And these guitar players have not sold out; Jeff Beck, Jimmy Page, Eric Clapton, Santana, EVH, etc. They played in their own original styles and have changed some if very little in tone and equipment choices. They have for the most part been uncompromising in their attitude and musical direction. And have been about the music and what they have thought and felt in a particular time. Not about money! Clapton, being one of the first guitar heroes, is very relevant. He took the blues roots and took it to another level. He took the styles of BB, Fredie, and Albert King, mixed them all together and played faster and more intensely. With a Les Paul and a Marshall with a killer tone. And let's not forget about others that have left us too soon, but notice how they are still admired and talked about today! Guitarist like, Hendrix, Duane, Paul Kossoff, etc.

Getting back to what this thread is all about. I would have to agree with many here that Clapton's tone blows. It's not the strat, just listen to the layla album with Duane. That is a killer strat tone through tiny Fender champs, and his playing is fantastic throughout the album. I would have to fault the electronics in his new strats. Those Fender Lace pickups sound like a POS to me. They sound to compressed, and muddy. They don't do justice to the great guitarist that is Eric Clapton. I'd say the same about Buddy Guy, a great bluesman and guitarist. But, he uses those same horrible pickups in his signature strats. His sound is thin, tinny, and just God awful. We need to get back to passive Alnico pickups. They sound chimey, and bell like when playing clean. And, when playing distorted, they growl, purr, and sound smooth. Get away from hot pickups, keep it clean at the source, and use pedals or a hot rodded amp. That's the trick to great tone.

Peace!

[Damien 6ix]

Slash is obviously over-rated within the music industry. I mean the guy is still been sold as GnR axeman, after over 10 years since he left the band. Slash has Guns n' Roses written all over him, that's what sells signature LesPauls and over-priced Wah pedals. He endorses more brands than a nascar pilot, and he doesn't even use half the shit he has his name on. This been said, he once was the guy who made guys like me want to do this for a living.

Zakk Wylde's style has change quiet a bit. Not only his sound but looks as well. I have to say I do like his sound now (woooooooo) yes I do. He was known as a hired gun for ozzy (thats an over rated singer by the way...) and now he's known for his own act BLS. That's really simple, 20 years have passed, thank god his sound has changed.

Eddie Van Halen is the coolest guy I've had the chance to meet. That man is super cool, great attitude toward people who are kin to meet him. Not my favourite player and not someone I would mention as an influence but deffntly someone that deserves the spot he has in the guitar world.

Keith Richards over rated? ... To me Keith Richards IS the ultimate bad ass guitar legend(.)

Eric Clapton...

[dalandan]

Originally Posted by hillbilly

How do you go from this:

To this:

this is how:

[alexx]

Originally Posted by gmacdonnell

Because of this:

[alexx]

Originally Posted by BstrdSonOJmsBrwn

and "my guy" for this thread.....is Ritchie Blackmore.....i'm an uber-geek for Ritchie and all the Deep Purple and Rainbow stuff........and its NOT that his playing skills and chops and tone are bad now......but its the fact he has abandoned rock altogether and the electric guitar for the most part....... how can ya go from THIS!!!




to this??(not that its ALL bad....but....WTF???)


granted.....Ritchie has always liked some fucked up hats(if you're into Ritchie.....you know what i'm talking about....lol)

Oh my God, dude....Richie went nuts.....

[alexx]

Originally Posted by So Relax

Slash - As inspiring as Appetite was, he has never captured that tone since. Not saying its bad, in fact I think its better than most out there, but he's never reached those heights. The Snakepit tone doen't do a lot for me.

+; But I would say that there is a lot of great tones in "It´s five o´clock somewhere".(Cannot say the same about Velvet Revolver)

[hbucker]

I hear where you guys are coming from on EVH. There's no accounting for who does or doesn't influence you, but I'll defend him from my perspective:

- Listen to his tone from record to record and you'll hear that it changes pretty much every time - even during the Roth era. Certainly there are similar characteristics but it's always changing, plus (as has been acknowledged) it changed significantly between his "modern" PV tone and his old Marshall tone. But that has always been a hallmark of their albums for me: "What's EVH's tone going to be like on this one?"

- They haven't put out a studio album in over 10 years. "3" was not only a bad album but I think that was his worst recorded tone I've heard.

- Tone aside, I think his playing has really slid over the past 15 years or so. Seems like he's stopped challenging himself and has lost much of the technical proficiency he once had.

- To argue with the people who dislike all of his modern tones, I think his tone on "Balance" was really smokin'. Probably the best of his modern era stuff. Different than Roth era but worthy of being put in that category.

- I love his old tone, I love much of his new tone. As a player, he's lost his edge over the years (IMO) but I think that happens to everyone on some level.

- Yes, he seems to be a little bit of an endorsement whore, yet who can blame him. He's got a right to make some money off of the image he's built. I would! And of the EVH products I've tried/own, they're all very good quality. I don't believe he's ever put his name on crap products whether they were products I wanted or not. (I've not seen anything but photos of the shoes though...)

- On a semi-unrelated topic: I just read that Van Halen is being investigated in a ticket scalping scheme. Supposedly they colluded with Ticketmaster to hold back some concert tickets and gave them to scalpers - then they split the inflated purchase price between all parties. If this is true, it's pretty sad and only feeds the fire of people who say he's nothing but a money whore now.

EVH is no doubt my biggest influence, but I still have the ability to objective about the guy. He's only human, which isn't an excuse for any misdeeds. It's only a reminder for anyone who expects him to live up to the status of the deity that he was once (fairly universally) considered. For those of you who don't remember and didn't live through this period of the 80's, you'll probably never understand how big he actually was. But that conversation is for another thread. I really just wish VH would go back into the studio and record some new stuff so we could have a current benchmark for conversations like this.