MyLesPaul.com
Homepage - Sponsors - Subscription - Auctions - Advertise - Spy  
Go Back   MyLesPaul.com > Music Gear > Tonefreaks
LIKE MyLesPaul on Facebook FOLLOW MyLesPaul on Twitter
  
Like Tree2Likes
  • 2 Post By FFXIhealer

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 12-14-2012, 02:50 AM   #1 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

i recently purchased SH-2 and SH-4 mistakenly with 4 conductors. i've upgraded to 50's wiring. i just want to know does wiring of pickup matter 50's wiring, or do i just install them according to Seymour Duncan's Standard Wiring For 4 Conductor Humbucker or 2 Humbucker 2 Volume 2 tone and 3 way guideline ?



could not find the picture for Standard Wiring For 4 Conductor Humbucker, but here's the pdf link http://www.seymourduncan.com/images/...501005-110.pdf
fb009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Les Paul

Beitrag Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on MyLesPaul.com
   
Unread 12-14-2012, 08:01 AM   #2 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
foxtrot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 691
Thanks: 14
Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

As far as I can see (not an expert) you should be able to wire 50s without a problem with your 4 conductor pickups.

Just wire it up like that SD picture you posted, except get rid of the wire connecting the bottom (left side in that picture) lugs of the vol and tone pots and switch the caps to the middle to bottom lug on the tone pots and connect them to the middle lug on the volume pots.

In other words, just treat the black wire as the hot wire from the pickups just like you would for 2 conductor 50s wiring. Then, ground the bare & green wires and solder together and tape the red and white wires like that picture shows.

That PDF link from SD is the same as the picture you posted, isn't it?

That's actually the wiring scheme I use, on my Studio Deluxe with 4 conductor pickups and 2 push pulls (came with that wiring scheme actually) and on my Traditional plus with 2 conductor pickups. Only difference is I ground the caps to the back of the volume pots instead of the tone pots (which makes no difference).
__________________

foxtrot is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2012, 11:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
hbucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,870
Thanks: 0
Thanked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

Tie off the two extra leads (as instructed) on the p.u. and it becomes a 2-wire pickup.

You don't have the authentic grounding screen around the wire, but that's not going to change your sound, IMO.
__________________
hbucker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2012, 12:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GitFiddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 7,994
Thanks: 982
Thanked 207 Times in 61 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

I rewired my 89 MIK Epi LP with a Jonesy's 50s harness and the exact same pickups you are using. Mine also came with 4-wire leads. I wired mine up just like the diagram you posted and everything works like a boss. Never dreamed my old Epi could sound so good.

Just like Hbucker said, you just wrap off the red and white wires and tuck them away out of sight. You can still use them in the future if you are so inclined to do coil-tapping etc.

Before:


After (looks a little messy but works great):



Good luck and welcome to MLP.
GitFiddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-14-2012, 09:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
World Class Service
 
martin6string's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,829
Thanks: 264
Thanked 271 Times in 66 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

The SD diagrams don't depict 50's wiring. Here's what you want:

__________________
-Matt



Premium Guitar Electronics, Aged Parts and Vintage Inspired Pickups

Authorized Dealer for Electric City Pickups / Montreux Time Machine Collection Aged Parts


Worldwide Shipping

Webstore - www.MartinSixStringCustoms.com /
www.MSSCGuitar.com

eBay Store / Tech Tips


Unsolicited Customer Testimonials
martin6string is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-15-2012, 04:38 AM   #6 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by martin6string View Post
The SD diagrams don't depict 50's wiring. Here's what you want:

your one is right but it depicts Single Humbucker. what i meant was about 4 conductor Humbucker wiring, isn't it? correct me if im wrong.
fb009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-15-2012, 06:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GitFiddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 7,994
Thanks: 982
Thanked 207 Times in 61 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

fb009,

I think what he means is that your diagram for a 4-conductor pickup, is depicted as standard or "modern" wiring and not the 50s wiring. The only difference between standard and 50s wiring is the way the tone caps are hooked up.

A single wire humbucker is actually two conductors. The inside black wire is the hot lead and the outside shielding is the ground lead.

With a four-wire humbucker, you simply modify the wires, so it is the same as a two conductor pickup. The red and white wires are connected together to cancel each other. The green and bare wire are combined as your ground and your black wire is still the hot wire.

The difference that makes it 50s wiring is that your tone caps are connected to the middle lug of the volume pots and the left lug of the tone pots. In these diagrams, the red hot lead would be the black hot lead on the SDs, and the shielding (soldered to the pot casing) would be your green and bare wires combined.



GitFiddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-15-2012, 08:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GitFiddle View Post
fb009,

The difference that makes it 50s wiring is that your tone caps are connected to the middle lug of the volume pots and the left lug of the tone pots. In these diagrams, the red hot lead would be the black hot lead on the SDs, and the shielding (soldered to the pot casing) would be your green and bare wires combined.

by "shielding" you mean soldering green and bare wire together on the back of the pots, does it also called grounding ?
fb009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-15-2012, 09:39 AM   #9 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
FFXIhealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Lake Charles, LA
Posts: 1,219
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

Ok, everybody, take a moment to read this post carefully.

'50s wiring DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO CHANGE THE TONE POT'S WIRING.

I'll say it again, this time for those of you who don't believe me. YOU DON'T NEED TO CHANGE THE LUGS ON THE TONE POT TO DO '50s WIRING.

LEAVE the cap on the center lug and bend the right lug back to ground. Just don't mess with it.

The difference between Modern and '50s Wiring is that you connect the capacitor NOT to the pickup lug (bottom) on the volume pot, but to the switch lug (middle). That's the ONLY CHANGE YOU NEED TO MAKE.

'50s Wiring and Modern Wiring differ not in how the Tone pot is wired up, BUT IN HOW THE VOLUME POT IS WIRED UP.

When someone's asking you for help on an EXISTING WIRING SETUP, talking about changing it from modern to '50s, quit telling them to do soldering steps that make absolutely no difference. You're making them do extra work they don't need to do...steps with a hot soldering iron...steps that could lead to damaging wires or components if they're not super-duper careful.

Again, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO DO STUFF THEY DON'T NEED TO DO.

You guys put so much faith in wiring diagrams on the internet, but have you even ONCE looked at it from an electrical/mechanical standpoint to see if doing it will make ANY lick of difference?


Now, with that being said, there IS a tonal difference between having the tone pot BEFORE the capacitor (the cap goes to ground and you have a separate wire going to the volume pot) VS having the tone pot AFTER the capacitor (as in most Gibson Les Pauls, SGs, etc.). If THAT is the case, then you have to decide whether that change is something you want to do and whether you like the way your tone pots operate like that.

Here's why: We all know that pots don't cut/block all frequencies equally. If they did, we wouldn't have things like "Treble bleeds" on volume pots and such. So the resistance of the pot acts like its own frequency filter. This is the same thing as the Capacitor acting like a frequency filter.

When the Tone pot is at 10, it has the full 500K or whatever resistance in series with the capacitor. As you turn it down, that resistance drops eventually to 0, allowing the signal to ground. The Capacitor allows the treble frequencies to pass through to ground (silencing them), but prevents the bass frequencies. That's why the tone pot works the way it does.

So if those two components are in series, do you want the capacitor filtering your frequencies before the Tone pot's resistance does, or do you want the capacitor to filter your frequencies AFTER the tone pot's resistance does?

Some people will again claim that this is 6-and-1/2-dozen of the other, but then some people claim they can hear the difference in pot values, the difference between this pickup and that pickup, etc. Whatever works for you...

The whole thing about Series wiring VS Parallel wiring, electrically, is the difference between Modern wiring and '50s Wiring.


Look at the diagram. I've "redrawn" the whole guitar wiring diagram in a standard electrician's wiring diagram.

If you look at the right pictures, you can see the BIG difference between Modern and '50s Wiring. But the tone pot wiring, strangely enough, looks virtually identical, even though the in/out wires have been reversed (like in most '50s diagrams). Why is that? Because electrically, they're both operating EXACTLY THE SAME. You have the exact same resistance either way when the dial is turned to the same point. It makes NO DIFFERENCE if you put the cap in the middle and the ground on the end than if you put the CAP in the middle and the Ground on the end.

Have I beaten this horse to death yet?
jonesy and GitFiddle like this.
__________________
2007 Marshall JVM410H + 1960A Lead
2011 Fender Mustang V + V412
2010 Fender Mustang II
1985 Marshall Lead 12 3005 Microstack
2012 Marshall JTM1H
2012 Marshall JMP1H
2011 Gibson Les Paul Custom Silverburst
2012 Gibson SG Special Faded
2009 Fender American Special Stratocaster
2007 Hagstrom Ultra-Swede
Custom Warmoth Strat with S/D pickups

Last edited by FFXIhealer; 12-15-2012 at 02:03 PM.
FFXIhealer is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-15-2012, 01:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
Premium Member
 
GitFiddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 7,994
Thanks: 982
Thanked 207 Times in 61 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

I have four LPs wired just like the 50s style diagram I posted. I assume they are wired correctly since I bought them as pre-wired 50s harnesses and simply added the pickup and switch connections. All four work and sound fantastic.

You better wire it the way FFX said, or we both may get a whoopin'.



Thanks for the clarification FFX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fb009 View Post
by "shielding" you mean soldering green and bare wire together on the back of the pots, does it also called grounding ?
Yes, I meant the green and bare wire (on the SDs) soldered to the same location, should be the equivalent of the outer metal woven shielding wire on a two-conductor pickup.
GitFiddle is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-15-2012, 02:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
World Class Service
 
martin6string's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,829
Thanks: 264
Thanked 271 Times in 66 Posts
Thumbs down Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

Everyone is an expert I suppose...
__________________
-Matt



Premium Guitar Electronics, Aged Parts and Vintage Inspired Pickups

Authorized Dealer for Electric City Pickups / Montreux Time Machine Collection Aged Parts


Worldwide Shipping

Webstore - www.MartinSixStringCustoms.com /
www.MSSCGuitar.com

eBay Store / Tech Tips


Unsolicited Customer Testimonials
martin6string is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-15-2012, 03:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
World Class Service
 
martin6string's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 7,829
Thanks: 264
Thanked 271 Times in 66 Posts
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fb009 View Post
your one is right but it depicts Single Humbucker. what i meant was about 4 conductor Humbucker wiring, isn't it? correct me if im wrong.
It doesn't matter if you use single or 4 conductor wiring. The way the pots and caps are wired is what determines 50's versus Modern style. I posted 50's style.
__________________
-Matt



Premium Guitar Electronics, Aged Parts and Vintage Inspired Pickups

Authorized Dealer for Electric City Pickups / Montreux Time Machine Collection Aged Parts


Worldwide Shipping

Webstore - www.MartinSixStringCustoms.com /
www.MSSCGuitar.com

eBay Store / Tech Tips


Unsolicited Customer Testimonials
martin6string is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2012, 12:45 AM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
darth Nihilus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Silver Lake, Ca.
Posts: 94
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Re: 50's wiring for 4 conductor humbucker?

***Moved post***
__________________
The hunger cometh
darth Nihilus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Our Network: PRS Guitar Forum | Luthier Forum | SG Guitar Forum | Marshall Amp Forum | Music Gear Forum | 7 String Guitar Forum | Acoustic Guitar Forum

MyLesPaul proudly supports St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

Copyright © 2006-2014, MyLesPaul.com. All Rights Reserved.