Bluesbreakers: Eric, Peter: Great-- but John Mayall's voice-- argh!

[jgonway]

As the title alludes to, the Beano album and Hard Road are just shockingly good and essential listening for any tone hound.

But everytime I go to put one of those albums on, I am just a bit hesitant because of John Mayall's voice.

Granted this is a bit of sacrilege, and I give all due respect for who Mayall is and what he was (and still is) to the blues movement. His contributions to British blues in the 1960s and 1970s is inestimable and sent ripple effects across the pond.

But I gotta call 'em like I see 'em: there are some tunes that his voice is about as irritating and shrill as it gets.

This post may be pointless-- but I was just wondering if others feel this way.

Rant over.

[Thumpalumpacus]

There are points on Beano where his singing sounds callow and thin, but he sure sings a hell of a lot better than I do, so I keep my mouth shut.

[SuiteAmpCo]

I'll agree with ya. After spinning that disc 1 too many times I can't listen to it without cringing just before the vocals come in on most of the tunes anymore. But, Hey Hey, My My, at least he's no Niel Young.lol

[yeti]

Originally Posted by jgonway

As the title alludes to, the Beano album and Hard Road are just shockingly good and essential listening for any tone hound.

But everytime I go to put one of those albums on, I am just a bit hesitant because of John Mayall's voice.

Granted this is a bit of sacrilege, and I give all due respect for who Mayall is and what he was (and still is) to the blues movement. His contributions to British blues in the 1960s and 1970s is inestimable and sent ripple effects across the pond.

But I gotta call 'em like I see 'em: there are some tunes that his voice is about as irritating and shrill as it gets.

This post may be pointless-- but I was just wondering if others feel this way.

Rant over.

Continuing with the pointless and sacrilegious I think that the guitar tones and playing on those albums are very overrated. There, I said it.

[SuiteAmpCo]

I'll disagree with ya. I find the playing ingenious, from my standpoint anyway. I hear an urgency and uniqueness that only comes from an improvasational genious. I really think he was winging it on the whole record. I'm sure there was some rehearsal, but to me I think he was making up most of it on the spot. For most of us it takes years and years to get that point. As far as the tones, coulda been engineering, but would love to have been in the room to hear it for myself. As it stands, that resonant tone has spawned generations of players who chase that dragon, and I for one hear why.
Try getting a Hi-Def sound card and some good 2.1 powered speakers on your computer and listen to a clean high bit rate WMA file with the volume cranked up. Of course its lost on you if you're not a blues guy. In which case disregard all of the above and live in bliss.lol
However the set-up on your computer will be worth it.

[River]

You get the Blues or you don't.

You don't.

[Ole'Lefty]

Jgonway--unless you are a child of the 60's you probably cannot understand how holy those sounds are. Luckily, my father played honky-tonk blues piano for relaxation. I could be in the kitchen doing dishes and he'd be hammering out those shuffles and I'd be singing along with him. Mayall is opera quality compared to me.

We moved to Chicago in 59 and when I became mobile, I would go to the real Old Town, or the South/ Southwest side and sneak in to the clubs-on the Southside I might be the only caucasian face in the crowd-I was often alone because buddies were not hooked like me. 99% of the time we were all there for the same reason. A 16 or 17 year old could even get a few beers if you behaved yourself-all that meant was respecting the performers and those around you. I admit I never got over being too shy to ask an African-American girl(actually they were much more "women" than I was a "man") to dance a bit-and, that was part of the respect. I did not get to have a "boy-girl" relationship with an African-American young woman until going to, oddly enough, a small, 98% caucasian college. We did feel some pressure.She did not return the next semester-she needed to work; I had a job in that little town, she could not get one--shameful. I brought my records with me and indoctrinated a few other guys into the blues.

But, I guess you could say that the indoctrination was easier with those Brits riding the wave of their "invasion." Then came the availability of "Live at the Apollo" a series of records comprising the best of "soul" at that time.

Finally, I don't think we try to fix TONE of singing voices down here-can't just change out a cap or pickup or pot.

Until the Brits, we would have to seek out "race" labels.

[Wraptail]

His voice might be an acquired taste, but I "got it" straight away.

The fist time I heard him was on the"Beano" album. I heard people raving all about that album and that EC had tone to die for on it.... I was actually disappointed, I did not like his tone at all, loved the playing but not that tone.

If that was my only reference for what a les paul sounded like I'd never have gotten one. - seriously.

[Brutus]

Lefty, I've always referred it as Boogie Blues and it's stayed with me. My piano teacher when I was a child, Mrs. Wool, didn't really like teaching me the blues but boogie-woogie was ok as it was good finger exercises, as long as I promised I wouldn't play it at home. I was told it wasn't nice for a young blue eyed blonde hair boy from a "good" family to learn "that" music back then. I'm still playing it. I'm so glad a band called Foghat came along.

[mudfinger]

I don't like the sound of Mayall's voice anymore than I like the sound of Neil Young's voice. Don't really care for Plant's voice, either.

But they all make me feel what they're feeling, and THAT is what matters to me.

[SKATTERBRANE]

If John Mayal had really "got" the blues, he would have hired a singer and stuck to playing the harp.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by SuiteAmpCo

I'll disagree with ya. I find the playing ingenious, from my standpoint anyway. I hear an urgency and uniqueness that only comes from an improvasational genious.

There are certain licks he repeats in different songs on that album, but it's all good. It doesn't take away from it, for me, because I wallow in the urgency of his playing, as you put it. He's definitely on fire.

That album has some of the few Gibson/Marshall tones that I absolutely love, too. They're overdriven to hell, but they ring like a bell, too -- no goddamned fizz.

[Wraptail]

This is killer Blues Breaker era Clapton tone, Mayall singing and harp:

John Mayall & Eric Clapton - Lonely Years - YouTube

John Mayall & Eric Clapton - Lonely Years - YouTube

[Ole'Lefty]

Thanks, Rude Dog. I still have some Mayall et al on vinyl someplace in boxes. My little brother became a professional musician (Colin Dussault Band) because of stealing my records and I gave him his first guitar(1968), a Gretsch double cutaway with FT's and the ubiquitous Bigsby, bright red. In 2001 I gave him my Custom Shop Lucille-he can play up to it-same day I gave my nephew a Guild Maple Jumbo which served him well through graduation from Berklee with high honors in guitar.(They were here for my daughter's wedding day-(from Cleveland and DC) While he is primarily a jazz guitarist, little brother and I did fire up a blues streak in him that survives well these days. Of course, it was not just the Brits and I made the best of the many original artist reissues of the 60'2-70's. I cannot always accept that I have 60+ gigabytes of blues and "Holy Grail, LAst Waltz, Blues Brothers, Woodstock and CAddyshack on an 80 G Ipod; I will be filling it up with "Saving Private Ryan" which I consider one of the 5 most important movies ever made, anywhere, any time. I have another same model Ipod and enough more vintage blues to use up half of that one. Alll of those have been converted to CD's but I still have to convert to Ipod compatible.

My favorite contemporary guitarists are EC and SRV, BB JLH,Buddy Guy and about 6 more. So, I am a modern conventionalist.

I dream that I thumbed down 61 to that Mississippi crossroads but Mephistopheles couldn't be bothered.

[zontar]

I think John Mayall's voice suits the songs he sings on.

It's got that certain timbre to it, that just spells blues to me...

[wavemagnet]

Originally Posted by zontar

I think John Mayall's voice suits the songs he songs on.

It's got that certain timbre to it, that just spells blues to me...

Amen!

John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers - I Cant Complain - YouTube

John Mayall & The Bluesbreakers - I Cant Complain - YouTube

[Gar]

I saw John Mayall supporting BB king. First thing he did was play another man, singing and playing harmonica, 1 man, 1 harmonica in 1 large arena. Brilliant!

[johnbeloe]

I dont mind his voice...each to their own I guess

[NashvilleCat]

Originally Posted by River

You get the Blues or you don't.

You don't.

Sometimes I'm just fooking amazed at how many don't.

just hadda say it

[dfwadjuster]

Originally Posted by mudfinger

I don't like the sound of Mayall's voice anymore than I like the sound of Neil Young's voice. Don't really care for Plant's voice, either.

But they all make me feel what they're feeling, and THAT is what matters to me.

Agreed.

Isn't that it in a nutshell? We're all different, singers, listeners, etc, some people will "speak" to you, while others will think they suck...

Furthermore, some of the most revered original black blues singers had "horrible" voices, but holy shit did they make you feel their pain and suffering...isn't that blues? Conveying your message, your pain, your joy?

Personally, I'm trying to turn over a new leaf, and try to avoid my natural instinct to voice a negative opinion about certain subjects. Singing, music, tone, etc. are just way too subjective to say "xxx sux". That's not necessarily true, just cause I don't like "xxx" doesn't mean it sux, and more often than not, a lot of people love it, so.....who's right. Some examples; Rap & Axl Rose. I don't have anything good to say about either of those two subjects, but a tremendous amount of people do, so who's right. Well...both. So what's the point of the argument?

[Angus]

Originally Posted by jgonway

Granted this is a bit of sacrilege, and I give all due respect for who Mayall is and what he was (and still is) to the blues movement. His contributions to British blues in the 1960s and 1970s is inestimable and sent ripple effects across the pond.

I actually think Mayall gets a bit more credit than he may deserve. Alexis Korner on the other hand doesn't, and he's the guy who persuaded Mayall to come down to London, mentored the Stones, helped put Free together, and generally (as far as I can tell) was a major part of getting the blues movement going in England. That isn't to say I'm a huge fan of his music, but he is a righteous dude of the blues.

I don't think much of John Mayall's voice a lot of the time, although I have heard sing and play piano really well on some albums. For what its worth my 2 favourite songs on Beano are Hideaway and Steppin' out - both instrumentals.

[deepblue]

As much as I am anti Clapton, I think the Bluesbreaker tone was the benchmark. I never really put much thought into Mayalls voice. I can take it or leave it I suppose.

[Ole'Lefty]

OK- I just cannot leave that lay, as we say here in the USA Midwest. How can you be anti-Clapton and care about playing the guitar? I don't expect everyone to think he is the best ever; on the other hand I did not know who Slash was at all until joining here, but I acknowledge his contribution to the instrument-some say the lick on "Sweet Child of Mine" is the best "rock" riff ever.

My generation's rock was heavily blues and "acid" based though most musicologists think all real "rock" is blues based. I don't consider rap to be music though it can be counted as late 20th-21st Century "talkin-blues.". To my traditional ears, metal is noise, but for the most part my music is 12 bar. I cannot categorize punk or grunge-sorry. I am so limited that 90% of the Leno and Letterman and Fallon closing act stuff is not worth listening to-I don't say I am right.

So, here is what I have to say about EC- one would be hard pressed to ignore his high level contribution to a fairly broad spectrum of the modern music landscape. I rank him number one, but that is not something I would bind every generation to. Mayall definitely helped shape him.

So, who is your favorite? JUST WITHIN this short thread and directed only to "anti clapton."

PS- I put SRV in a sub-category of Texas Blues and nobody has done that better. All one has to do is listen to brother Jimmy alongside Stevie Ray- barely journeyman versus Master. Then I listen to Ain't Gone an Give Up on Love played by Clapton on the tribute album and I sometimes think it is the epitome Blues-rock guitar-it isn't the SRV way, but....

Sorry for starting this especially in a sub-forum where I am a truly minor participant and quite unwelcome to some.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Lefty, I think DB's feelings about Clapton are more about personal life than guitaring.

[Ole'Lefty]

I admit that EC has had some personal flaws-sadly, I may have a few of those too. I meant to limit my comments to the music. The supposed #1, Jimi Hendrix, died of a heroin/opiate overdose; some see him as a martyr because of that--hey Jimi, you got so mellow you forgot to breathe but it ain't your guitar-god fault. Addictions are heavy chains and escaping those links is a hard road.

Coveting a neighbor's wife appears on the tablets given to Moses-apparently a problem we have had for a long time. i For some, it is certainly less offensive than having the same lust for a sheep, but the sheep's last impregnator probably does not become aggrieved in the eyes of the Lord-or, whoever you believe might have set life up.

Sadly, the loss of children among the poor in major urban settings in the manner Clapton lost his son is not that unusual.

[LawDaddy]

Like Geddy Lee's voice, it's an acquired taste. One of the textures of a greater sonic presentation.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Ole'Lefty

The supposed #1, Jimi Hendrix, died of a heroin/opiate overdose; some see him as a martyr because of that--hey Jimi, you got so mellow you forgot to breathe but it ain't your guitar-god fault. Addictions are heavy chains and escaping those links is a hard road.

.

I agree with much of what you say, but for the record Hendrix died because he'd taken too strong a dose of sleeping tablets, and drowned in the vomit that he was unable to clear from his air ways.

[deepblue]

Originally Posted by Ole'Lefty

OK- I just cannot leave that lay, as we say here in the USA Midwest. How can you be anti-Clapton and care about playing the guitar? I don't expect everyone to think he is the best ever; on the other hand I did not know who Slash was at all until joining here, but I acknowledge his contribution to the instrument-some say the lick on "Sweet Child of Mine" is the best "rock" riff ever.

My generation's rock was heavily blues and "acid" based though most musicologists think all real "rock" is blues based. I don't consider rap to be music though it can be counted as late 20th-21st Century "talkin-blues.". To my traditional ears, metal is noise, but for the most part my music is 12 bar. I cannot categorize punk or grunge-sorry. I am so limited that 90% of the Leno and Letterman and Fallon closing act stuff is not worth listening to-I don't say I am right.

So, here is what I have to say about EC- one would be hard pressed to ignore his high level contribution to a fairly broad spectrum of the modern music landscape. I rank him number one, but that is not something I would bind every generation to. Mayall definitely helped shape him.

So, who is your favorite? JUST WITHIN this short thread and directed only to "anti clapton."

PS- I put SRV in a sub-category of Texas Blues and nobody has done that better. All one has to do is listen to brother Jimmy alongside Stevie Ray- barely journeyman versus Master. Then I listen to Ain't Gone an Give Up on Love played by Clapton on the tribute album and I sometimes think it is the epitome Blues-rock guitar-it isn't the SRV way, but....

Sorry for starting this especially in a sub-forum where I am a truly minor participant and quite unwelcome to some.

I don't want to beat a dead horse. The Clapton topic is old and tired. As I have stated, I think his tone on the Bluesbreaker album was his best. I prefer Peter Green, but unfortunately Green had a relatively short career. As Thump has said, It's more Clapton as a person back in the day that I despised. An egotistical twat who thought he was better than everyone else. It's no secret he treated people like dirt. As for you, don't take it personally. I am entitled to my opinion.

Anyway....I am tired of the subject.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by Ole'Lefty

I admit that EC has had some personal flaws-sadly, I may have a few of those too. I meant to limit my comments to the music. The supposed #1, Jimi Hendrix, died of a heroin/opiate overdose; some see him as a martyr because of that--hey Jimi, you got so mellow you forgot to breathe but it ain't your guitar-god fault. Addictions are heavy chains and escaping those links is a hard road.

Coveting a neighbor's wife appears on the tablets given to Moses-apparently a problem we have had for a long time. i For some, it is certainly less offensive than having the same lust for a sheep, but the sheep's last impregnator probably does not become aggrieved in the eyes of the Lord-or, whoever you believe might have set life up.

Sadly, the loss of children among the poor in major urban settings in the manner Clapton lost his son is not that unusual.

Yeah, I'm not saying that I share that outlook. Generally speaking, I don't look at it as if I'm buying their personal lives. I buy their music, or don't, based on whether or not I like it, and leave their foibles out of the equation, in most cases.

[5F6-A]

agreed