P90 Help? New guy here...

[drugprowlingwolf]

Hey guys,

Long time lurker and a big fan of the site. I read a lot of the threads here and really love the community and thought I should join up and see if I could get some help and maybe even share some of my meager electrical knowledge for some karmic payback!

Anyways, I picked up a really really nice Epiphone 57 RI Junior. The neck is nice and fat and the body just rings. I'm not so keen on the poly finish but a great playing and feeling guitar isn't decided by paint. I love the guitar, but here's the thing: I'd like to get it a bit more up to snuff.

I'm looking for a new harness and pickup that will give me the snarling/crunchy Keef 68-72/Thunders/Townshend/Mississippi Queen vibe. Am I correct in that I'm looking for a late 50s vintage hot style wind? 500k Volume, 250k tone, .22 PIO cap? I've searched around and found a lot of conflicting info on the web. I run this into an old Plexi which is a FAT amp so I absolutely don't want anything with a flabby low end. Other than that I just want the cigarette smoke and grease P-90 sound if that makes sense. Ideally it would also offer some good clean tones too; I'm not looking for something to kill the input of my amp (not into metal or high gain/ceramic pickup tones), but I do want some classic heat.

I'm sure this has been asked a bunch but I didn't find a suitable answer and looked around quite a bit. On a side note, can anyone recommend an aluminum wraparound tailpiece that would fit this guitar? I'm okay with having it doweled if it would make a big difference.

Thanks!

[strat]

ResoMax Wrap NW1 Bridge for the tail and I have a .022 cap in my PRS SE Soapbar II and I don't think its a good fit. The volume drops off pretty noticably when I twist the tone a bit so I think go with the .047, thats what I see a lot with the single coils.

[drugprowlingwolf]

Originally Posted by strat

ResoMax Wrap NW1 Bridge for the tail and I have a .022 cap in my PRS SE Soapbar II and I don't think its a good fit. The volume drops off pretty noticably when I twist the tone a bit so I think go with the .047, thats what I see a lot with the single coils.

Thanks for the reply! I was wondering a bit about the tone cap value... I wasn't sure whether it was largely dependent on the pickup (single vs HB) or the guitar (warm/gibby vs bright/fender).

I'll do a bit more digging but anyone who lists themselves as trying to do something (somewhat) similar lists a .22

[970harris]

Originally Posted by strat

ResoMax Wrap NW1 Bridge for the tail and I have a .022 cap in my PRS SE Soapbar II and I don't think its a good fit. The volume drops off pretty noticably when I twist the tone a bit so I think go with the .047, thats what I see a lot with the single coils.

I also think the .047 (or maybe a .033) could be a good bet.

I replaced the stock (soapbar) bridge P-90 on my LP Special with a Lollar and also put in a .047 PIO cap (think it was a Vitamin Q) from Jonesy (and at his recommendation). I really like what I get out of that --- tight low end, fat mids, and lots of harmonic overtones --- and your axe would have the advantage of the more flush-mounted dogear P-90, which I would expect would fatten things up even more.

[bill m]

Historically speaking, a les paul junior has 500k vol. and tone pots, and a.022 uf cap. A good pickup for a junior(IMHO) is around 8.5k ohms.
@STRAT- If your volume is dropping off from rolling the tone back with a .022, then a .047 would make it worse. Sounds like you have something else going on there. What value pots are in your PRS?

[drugprowlingwolf]

So it IS 500k all around...

Thanks Bill.

So, is the 250 tone pot more of a preference? I always hear a good P90 as bright and rude but not harsh. Mabe a 250k pot helps smooth it off?

[SuiteAmpCo]

My standard reply to pickup questions....zhangbuckers. tho he is kinda known as a p-90 guru. I may be setting the bar hi for him tho.lol but he's supposed to know his p-90's. Check the web.

[River]

You got an Epi '57 Reissue Junior with a thick neck?

Owning one myself, I'm quite surprised. Mine is extremely thin and low-shouldered, for a Gibson/Epi, anyway. Extremely. I put a Graphtec TOM and Bigsby B5 on mine, so I can't help with the bridge.

For a pickup, I chose a Seymour Duncan Antiquity and couldn't be more pleased with it. While a tad low in overall output, it does cleans like a Tele neck, and growls like you want with the amp gain goosed. Roll the tone down to about 7, and it does an admirable job emulating a pushing Humbucker.

Cap and pots are as recommended by bill m, above.

[drugprowlingwolf]

Originally Posted by River

You got an Epi '57 Reissue Junior with a thick neck?

Owning one myself, I'm quite surprised. Mine is extremely thin and low-shouldered, for a Gibson/Epi, anyway. Extremely. I put a Graphtec TOM and Bigsby B5 on mine, so I can't help with the bridge.

For a pickup, I chose a Seymour Duncan Antiquity and couldn't be more pleased with it. While a tad low in overall output, it does cleans like a Tele neck, and growls like you want with the amp gain goosed. Roll the tone down to about 7, and it does an admirable job emulating a pushing Humbucker.

Cap and pots are as recommended by bill m, above.

Haha, I read your posts on this model and kind of hoped you'd chime in. Thanks!

I guess maybe I mean chunky? The neck feels substantially. I'm going to be honest I've never understood how people classify necks as fat/thin whatever. I can feel a neck radius though. Hrm.

I've been considering the antiquity. It seems like people like it for a 50s grease-and-cigarette smoke 50s kind of P90. I've also been in touch with Wolfe Macleod (sp?) about a pickup. I've read that he seems to make the most authentic P90s in the sense that Fralins and Lollars have a reputation as being sparkly and hifi. Bollocks. I had a harmonic design P90 described as Hifi and it sounded sterile. It was almost too good. It was totally transparent, which some may like, but I like my pickups to contribute some personality!

Thanks for all the replies, guys. Still kind of weirded about the 500k tone pots, but hey.

Any more suggestions are welcome!

[drugprowlingwolf]

By the way River, do you happen to use any effects? I was wondering how the Antiquity plays with others. I use transistor boxes like the tonebender and rangemaster and don't want too much noise. Then again, I don't dime all the knobs on 'em either, hahaha.

[River]

Originally Posted by drugprowlingwolf

By the way River, do you happen to use any effects? I was wondering how the Antiquity plays with others. I use transistor boxes like the tonebender and rangemaster and don't want too much noise. Then again, I don't dime all the knobs on 'em either, hahaha.

The subjective nature of describing neck feel is why I came up with the idea of measuring them around the back. Here are the measurements I've collected. Yours would be a welcome addition.



I stick with amp distortion, but practice with and am prepared to use my Boss BD-2 if I have to use someone else's amp or a P/A. Works great with the "gain" around 2:00 and the "tone" dialed back.

[bill m]

Originally Posted by drugprowlingwolf

So it IS 500k all around...

Thanks Bill.

So, is the 250 tone pot more of a preference? I always hear a good P90 as bright and rude but not harsh. Mabe a 250k pot helps smooth it off?

A 250k tone pot is definately not my preference. To me P90 guitars need to be controlled a little. It is common for me to run the bridge pickup tone down around 6 or 7, but when I want to be agressive and in your face I turn it up. Sometimes I play through darker sounding amps and the tone is set on 10. If you use a 250k tone pot you won't be able to do that and that is one of the reasons I love vintage p90's and a good p90 in general. The tone and volume controls do a lot with these pickups.

[bill m]

One other thing. I have heard many vintage p90's that were harsh , through a particular amp and it is amazing what a tiny little twist of the tone knob can do.

[strat]

Originally Posted by bill m

Historically speaking, a les paul junior has 500k vol. and tone pots, and a.022 uf cap. A good pickup for a junior(IMHO) is around 8.5k ohms.
@STRAT- If your volume is dropping off from rolling the tone back with a .022, then a .047 would make it worse. Sounds like you have something else going on there. What value pots are in your PRS?

I used 500k's. I know I should have used 250's but I love the way it sounds haha I just wish the tone wouldn't kill my volume hahah

[bill m]

Originally Posted by strat

I used 500k's. I know I should have used 250's but I love the way it sounds haha I just wish the tone wouldn't kill my volume hahah

No, The 500k's are correct. I don't like 250k's. If it is killing your volume that much you might have other wiring issues or a bad tone cap. I've had bad tone caps that made the tone control act as a volume.

[Stratottack]

We've got some great vendors here for the harness, pots and caps but if you wanna kick a little bit of azz, jump over and take a listen to some of Wolfes, Wolfetone P90's. You might be surprised.

For the bridge? A buddy of mine and active member here at MLP hooked me up with this from Stew Mac.
STEWMAC.COM : Adjustable Wraparound Bridge

I'm tickled as a hog in slop. My harness is a Jonesy Blues special:

[straightblues]

I would say start with the cap and pots. I would go with 2 500K CTS pots. I would then buy a good PIO (Paper in Oil cap). I would get a vintage Vitamin Q like this on on Ebay. Sprague Hyrel-Vitamin Q .022uf 100v PIO Tone Cap | eBay

Or you can get one of the Russian ones. I would go with a .022.

Do the pots and caps first. You may find that the stock pickups sounds fine. If you don't like it, then look at the Wolfetone , Throbak or a Lollar.

[drugprowlingwolf]

Thanks for all the replies, gentleman!

It's looking like an Antiquity or a Wolfetone meaner and 500k pots with a .22 cap.

River, I measured the Junior and for shits my SG as well, in case you're interested.

JR 1st Fret - 2 11/16
5th Fret - 2 13/16
11th Fret - 3 1/16

SG 1st Fret - 2 11/16
5th Fret - 2 7/8
11th Fret - 3 1/16

[River]

Thanks, wolf. What year/make/model is the SG?

[drugprowlingwolf]

Originally Posted by River

Thanks, wolf. What year/make/model is the SG?

No problem sir!

The SG is a Gibson SG Special - 1998.

[River]

Your SG matches my Tele. Interesting.

[drugprowlingwolf]

Hmm. What style tele? I just traded away an MIM Standard for the Junior because I couldn't get around the weird thin neck. It almost reminded me of an old Epiphone Olympic or something...!

[River]

Custom built to '52 specs, but with a 10-12 compound radius board.

[Wraptail]

P90s are all about predominant bass and lower mids, but still with clarity in the top end with no mud or boomyness - not an easy feat. Not sure how else to describe it.

-Giant thick balls with volume pot all the way up, gets a bit twangy as you roll the volume down.

I tried an Antiquity P90 in a LP Junior style guitar and I did not like it - too soft, with no balls. Doesn't sound like what you're looking for to me- at least from my experience. But River digs his, and so do lots of other people.

I'd converse with a winder or two or three on this forum about what your guitar sounds like now and where you would like to take it, and they can let you know what they have to offer that might get you there.

Another thing you can do is buy a few different pairs of ALNICO magnets and swap them in and out of that Epiphone pickup. You might end up loving that pickup with some different magnets... and magnets are very cheap. And you'll learn which types of magnets you prefer.

[drugprowlingwolf]

Originally Posted by River

Custom built to '52 specs, but with a 10-12 compound radius board.

That thing is beautiful! Looks like a nice big club of maple! The detail is stunning btw.

[drugprowlingwolf]

Originally Posted by Rude Dog

P90s are all about predominant bass and lower mids, but still with clarity in the top end with no mud or boomyness - not an easy feat. Not sure how else to describe it.

-Giant thick balls with volume pot all the way up, gets a bit twangy as you roll the volume down.

I tried an Antiquity P90 in a LP Junior style guitar and I did not like it - too soft, with no balls. Doesn't sound like what you're looking for to me- at least from my experience. But River digs his, and so do lots of other people.

I'd converse with a winder or two or three on this forum about what your guitar sounds like now and where you would like to take it, and they can let you know what they have to offer that might get you there.

Another thing you can do is buy a few different pairs of ALNICO magnets and swap them in and out of that Epiphone pickup. You might end up loving that pickup with some different magnets... and magnets are very cheap. And you'll learn which types of magnets you prefer.

Hmm. I was considering modding the pickup but honestly, I feel the double-coil just kills off all the P90 vibe. I used to have an amazing older Edwards DC Junior with a big neck (stupid, stupid, stupid - should not have sold it!) that had the right vibe. This one doesn't compare plugged in. The only other real differences are the thick poly on it.

I am exchanging emails with Wolfe Macleod about a pickup as he seems like the guy for rocking bridge pickups. Any other vendors you recommend? I had a great experience with a custom PAF from Brandonwound pickups that I found through Jonesy's site.

[strat]

Originally Posted by bill m

No, The 500k's are correct. I don't like 250k's. If it is killing your volume that much you might have other wiring issues or a bad tone cap. I've had bad tone caps that made the tone control act as a volume.

It reduces the volume but also makes the sound darker. more bassy. I don't know I'll try a few different caps. I know its definetly not a wiring issue, you don't need to be an electrical engineer to wire 2 P-90's a tone, vol and toggle lol

[tolm]

To the OP: I have an Epi '57 Reissue Junior Korina. I've had loaded up with a Bare Knuckle Pickups Nantucket P90 and BKP pots (both 550k, I believe) which sounds fabulous - to me at least.

[drugprowlingwolf]

Originally Posted by tolm

To the OP: I have an Epi '57 Reissue Junior Korina. I've had loaded up with a Bare Knuckle Pickups Nantucket P90 and BKP pots (both 550k, I believe) which sounds fabulous - to me at least.

Thank you. After reading most of the replies it seems like a vintage P90 ought to be approached in the same way as a PAF (for those who like it bright and toothy - like me) so I'm gonna go all 500k with .22

What kind of amp do you run? I was looking at the BKP Nantucket as an option as well... I basically want something I can slam into full gear (all knobs on ten) without ice pick. A little bit of bite is okay but not piercing or unmusical.

[axepilot]

Originally Posted by drugprowlingwolf

I basically want something I can slam into full gear (all knobs on ten) without ice pick. A little bit of bite is okay but not piercing or unmusical.

You might want to reconsider that with P90s. My experience has been to dial the highs down a bit with the amp at full smash with P90's.

YMMV.....................