Amp, technique and tone

[5F6-A]

This thread can potentially lead to some really interesting discussion.

I´ve been playing my main amp which is a custom made, PTP wired JTM45 ish amp with real KT66s and a high preamp voltage (200 volts) for some time now and I´ve realised that to get the most from this amp I had to change my technique from when I played other amps. In order to sound great I had to:

1) Hit the strings firmly and with conviction. Also selecting the notes carefully: less is more with this amp
2) Control the pressure of the left / fretting hand in combination with the right hand to get cleanly executed notes
3) Know exactly what I want to play
4) If I play in a play in a lazy fashion the tone would be mushy, if I know what notes to play the amps starts producing some truly glorious tone
5) Control the pops and squeaks. The amp is merciless with sloppy playing.

By comparison, newer amps sound compressed, dark, smooth and with a very dissapointing lack of real dynamics.

Does your amp dictates how you play? Please share...

[bill m]

You mention about your JTM-45 getting muddy. Where do you run the bass control? Jtm-45's don't like bass, unless you have it turned down and playing clean. I typically run my bass off, or around 7 or 8 oclock, mids 2 o'clock, treble 2 o'clock, and volume anywhere from half up to full volume. I have no problems with mud.

Now, JTM-45's are a very dynamic amp, and can howl like a pack of wolves. They can be sweet, they can be nasty, and everything in between. I own a boatload of vintage amps, from fender tweeds, black and silverfaces, to vintage marshalls. The JTM-45 is my go to amp, next to my Deluxe reverbs.

[yeti]

Best I can explain it is that me and my main amp (vintage tweed Bassman with original speakers, trannys, etc.) are having a conversation and the amp tells me if what I do is tolerable or not. It's the same reason I can't let anyone else play through my rig, you need to be familiar with it otherwise you'll just break the precious old thing. But I do respect her wishes and get great results. Makes sense?

[Emmanuel Starchild]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

This thread can potentially lead to some really interesting discussion.

I´ve been playing my main amp which is a custom made, PTP wired JTM45 ish amp with real KT66s and a high preamp voltage (200 volts) for some time now and I´ve realised that to get the most from this amp I had to change my technique from when I played other amps. In order to sound great I had to:

1) Hit the strings firmly and with conviction. Also selecting the notes carefully: less is more with this amp
2) Control the pressure of the left / fretting hand in combination with the right hand to get cleanly executed notes
3) Know exactly what I want to play
4) If I play in a play in a lazy fashion the tone would be mushy, if I know what notes to play the amps starts producing some truly glorious tone
5) Control the pops and squeaks. The amp is merciless with sloppy playing.

By comparison, newer amps sound compressed, dark, smooth and with a very dissapointing lack of real dynamics.

Does your amp dictates how you play? Please share...

These are guitar playing fundamentals for ANY amp, IMHO.

[Scooter2112]

Originally Posted by Emmanuel Starchild

These are guitar playing fundamentals for ANY amp, IMHO.

Agreed. Especially a good tube amp.

It's amazing what you can get away with when playing through a modeler or SS amp.

[Mouse]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

This thread can potentially lead to some really interesting discussion.

I´ve been playing my main amp which is a custom made, PTP wired JTM45 ish amp with real KT66s and a high preamp voltage (200 volts) for some time now and I´ve realised that to get the most from this amp I had to change my technique from when I played other amps. In order to sound great I had to:

1) Hit the strings firmly and with conviction. Also selecting the notes carefully: less is more with this amp
2) Control the pressure of the left / fretting hand in combination with the right hand to get cleanly executed notes
3) Know exactly what I want to play
4) If I play in a play in a lazy fashion the tone would be mushy, if I know what notes to play the amps starts producing some truly glorious tone
5) Control the pops and squeaks. The amp is merciless with sloppy playing.

By comparison, newer amps sound compressed, dark, smooth and with a very dissapointing lack of real dynamics.

Does your amp dictates how you play? Please share...

Thanks, good description. Marshall have bump in midds which is good when we play in the rock context, which also means one have to control it more with his picking hand and attack. old 'junk' non master have no much room for legato technique if you want notes to be even in loudness and it's easy to slip without pedals. Very responsive amps in our guitaristic sense have their rules and players.

Real responsivenes happens because of lower filtration than in modern amps. power electrolitycs are energy containers if they are low amp is a bit starved. which is not good for hifi or low tuned heavy but is just great for rock. we call it -amp have soul.

[Kingdom of Nye]

It's true. Especially what was said about older non master volume amps.

It's all in the gain staging.

The Tonemaster in my avatar is an old Valco and can be a bitch to play leads on, especially with p90s. Very naked. But after playing on that rig for a while, and getting it to sound good, going to a hi-gain marshall and humbuckers feels loads easier.


This is the reason that Great Guitarist X sounds like himself on any piece of shit. "The magic is coming from their fingers," not the gain stage.

[axepilot]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

I´ve been playing my main amp which is a custom made, PTP wired JTM45 ish amp with real KT66s and a high preamp voltage (200 volts) for some time now and I´ve realised that to get the most from this amp I had to change my technique from when I played other amps. In order to sound great I had to:

1) Hit the strings firmly and with conviction. Also selecting the notes carefully: less is more with this amp
2) Control the pressure of the left / fretting hand in combination with the right hand to get cleanly executed notes
3) Know exactly what I want to play
4) If I play in a play in a lazy fashion the tone would be mushy, if I know what notes to play the amps starts producing some truly glorious tone
5) Control the pops and squeaks. The amp is merciless with sloppy playing.

By comparison, newer amps sound compressed, dark, smooth and with a very dissapointing lack of real dynamics.

Does your amp dictates how you play? Please share...

I have a Germino Club 40. It has quite a bit of JTM45 in it. It doesn't dictate the way I play, but it absolutely demands to be played just like you play the guitar. You have to learn the amp and be cognizant in how the amp will respond, or it's garbage in, garbage out. It doesn't take long to learn this. Once you get comfortable and come to terms, the amp will reward your playing with sonic glory.

I know exactly what you are saying.

[chrisuk]

When I got my boutique amp I was all over the place - I couldn't get two notes in a row to work together. It soon started to come together as I learned the rigg though.

[5F6-A]

yes!

I´m encouraged that so many people have experienced what I described.

One example, this is a video of the drummer in my band playing through my rig ( LP with WB H abs) and Pure Soul amp. He´s a great musician and multi instrumentalist and he plays many instuments proficiently, including guitar. Still, his picking hand has been educated to play through solidstate and digital amps so he does not attack the strings with IMHO enough conviction. He sounds ok but the amp reacts and sounds so much better with the right technique...

Pure Soul and Les Paul played clean part 2 - YouTube

Pure Soul and Les Paul played clean part 2 - YouTube

Originally Posted by bill m

You mention about your JTM-45 getting muddy. Where do you run the bass control? Jtm-45's don't like bass, unless you have it turned down and playing clean. I typically run my bass off, or around 7 or 8 oclock, mids 2 o'clock, treble 2 o'clock, and volume anywhere from half up to full volume. I have no problems with mud.

Now, JTM-45's are a very dynamic amp, and can howl like a pack of wolves. They can be sweet, they can be nasty, and everything in between. I own a boatload of vintage amps, from fender tweeds, black and silverfaces, to vintage marshalls. The JTM-45 is my go to amp, next to my Deluxe reverbs.

totally agreed!!

I set my amp (as a starting point) like this:

Vol / Gain 6/10
Treb 6/10
Middle 5/10
Bass 2/10
Master volume 6/10
Presence 5/10

Originally Posted by axepilot

I have a Germino Club 40. It has quite a bit of JTM45 in it. It doesn't dictate the way I play, but it absolutely demands to be played just like you play the guitar...

I know exactly what you are saying.

ahhh Germino amps.. raw, wild, rich and haunting. Love them!

Originally Posted by chrisuk

When I got my boutique amp I was all over the place - I couldn't get two notes in a row to work together. It soon started to come together as I learned the rigg though.

+1

[MrRhoads]

I set my preamp to 7 out of 12 after that it compresses to much on my Peavey Windsor Studio so at 7 all the dynamics are left and i can even slam it with a overdrive pedal.
I always use the low-gain input in the amp.
Playing technique is something everyone should learn IMO there´s so much you can do
I´m really happy with my amp and guitar so i just usually plug in and play and the adjust with playing technique and the knobs on my guitar.
It´s as easy as it gets

[Mouse]

Here is one of the first 1963 jtm45. Vic is speedster but in this case he just hits the right spot of this amp. it's called synergy
Vintage Amps Bulletin Board • View topic - Vintage 63 JTM45 Offset Sound Clip and pictures


Wave flie
http://vintageamps.com/temp/offset.wav

Mp3
http://vintageamps.com/temp/offset.mp3

[Mouse]

Talking about jtm 45 is not complete without it's predecessor which is quite amazing amp, low filtration

1960 Tweed Bassman-Hendrix Tone Sound Check #1 - YouTube

1960 Tweed Bassman-Hendrix Tone Sound Check #1 - YouTube

[5F6-A]

some well played music through a JTM45 in these clips

You can hear that kind of "resistance" that I can hear with my amp too. Not smooth, compressed and "easy" to play as in newer amps...


http://www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/...le_320x240.mp4

http://www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/...nd_320x240.mp4

http://www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/...lo_320x240.mp4

http://www1.gitarrebass.de/magazine/...ng_320x240.mp4

you have to put up a fight to get the best tones but man, what a righteous fight!!

[Mouse]

Very nice videoclips with that 1957 refinish

[Thumpalumpacus]

I view any electric rig as a system -- a modular instrument consisting of guitar, effects, and amplifier.

All of the components need to be factored into my head when I'm playing in order to achieve the tone I'm seeking.

This principle is unchanging no matter the manufacturer of the gear.

[babatube]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Here is one of the first 1963 jtm45. Vic is speedster but in this case he just hits the right spot of this amp. it's called synergy
Vintage Amps Bulletin Board • View topic - Vintage 63 JTM45 Offset Sound Clip and pictures


Wave flie
http://vintageamps.com/temp/offset.wav

Mp3
http://vintageamps.com/temp/offset.mp3

i just melted on the chair right now

[Backstage]

That are also my experience with my old 50W Marshell JMP head and I disagree that it's "fundamental for any amp".

[5F6-A]

Originally Posted by Mouse

Very nice videoclips with that 1957 refinish

Thanks! BTW, you've got a PM

[st.bede]

I adjust my playing to fit with the gear I am using. In a sense plugging into an amp is like walking up to a tuned percussion instrument that you have never played before. (This happened to me at an earth day festival this weekend). At first I have to figure out what notes are where and how they set next to each other. So I find the low note and see where the others fall. Once I realize how they are functioning, then I start to try and think musically.

When I sit down at a new amp, at first I just play a few thing and try and see what if the amp and I can sync. If I feel like it i fighting me, I slow down and try to listen closer, try to see how I need to be hitting the notes and, try and what the amp is doing. After that I try and adjust the amp to get something to work for me and sometimes to account for the room. There has to be some type of ying yang wisdom to be found in this experince, something about listening and respecting what is, while offering an expression of yourself.

[yeti]

Originally Posted by st.bede

I adjust my playing to fit with the gear I am using. In a sense plugging into an amp is like walking up to a tuned percussion instrument that you have never played before. (This happened to me at an earth day festival this weekend). At first I have to figure out what notes are where and how they set next to each other. So I find the low note and see where the others fall. Once I realize how they are functioning, then I start to try and think musically.

When I sit down at a new amp, at first I just play a few thing and try and see what if the amp and I can sync. If I feel like it i fighting me, I slow down and try to listen closer, try to see how I need to be hitting the notes and, try and what the amp is doing. After that I try and adjust the amp to get something to work for me and sometimes to account for the room. There has to be some type of ying yang wisdom to be found in this experince, something about listening and respecting what is, while offering an expression of yourself.

WOW, you're a better man than me! I try to make it work much the same way but loose patience too quickly at times. Over the years I'm getting better at it and it is one of the most rewarding experiences to arrive at a mutually agreeable relationship with the equipment, your partner in crime.

[rybass]

Originally Posted by 5F6-A

He sounds ok but the amp reacts and sounds so much better with the right technique...

Pure Soul and Les Paul played clean part 2 - YouTube

Put up your technique that you think it sounds better with. For comparison.