Is everyone an electrical engineer!?

[RandMan]

My first ever post!

Alright so I have an Epi Les Paul Standard Plus--I think it's an 01' or an '02. I have diagnosed OCD, so when I recently heard about little mods you can do to a guitar to improve the tone, I did the only thing I know how to do in a situation such as: I dove neck-deep into research and curiosity and spent the last three weeks on the internet for more than 3 hours a day reading about anything and everything. I ended up ordering a wiring upgrade kit from guitarupgradesonline.com last week, and just received it the other day--came with wires, pots, orange drops and a toggle switch. And the reason for my post....

Is everyone a freakin' electrical engineer for pete's sake? All I can find all over the internet are wiring diagrams, usually in black and white, which I cannot make any sense of. I watched a few tuturiol videos on how to solder, so that's a head start at least. Is there anywhere on the net that gives someone like me a nice, slow, detailed step-by-step walkthrough of how to do this project? I really want to do it myself and learn, because down the road I may want to mod my amp a bit with the electronics. I would appreciate a push in the right direction if anyone has one. I was surprised at the lack of tutorial-type info on this subject.

Signed,
Desperate in Boston

[Rich]

Wish I could help but I'm no better at it - nor do I have the patience to - solder guitar wiring together anymore. I used to do some when I was younger, generally doing a messy job of it. These days, the way I figure it I wouldn't try to remove my own pancreas, I'll pay a pro to do it.

[Lungo]

I suppose some people are more technical minded than others but it doesn't take an electrical engineer to do this stuff. I'm living proof.

Try to be patient and research a little more. If you can ask specific questions you'll probably get more helpful responses.

[gtr-tek]

MojoTone has some vids you might find helpful: Video Tutorials

I'm no engineer, but I've been wiring my own guitar stuff for years.

Amp mods can be hazardous, if not fatal! Do MUCH research before poking around in an environment that can zap you, even when unplugged! Them big cylindrical capacitors can store a wallop and take you down.

[thinkgreen]

there is loads of info here to keep you occupied for months. and for what you can't find someone here will know

[flquacker]

Originally Posted by Lungo

I suppose some people are more technical minded than others but it doesn't take an electrical engineer to do this stuff. I'm living proof.

Try to be patient and research a little more. If you can ask specific questions you'll probably get more helpful responses.

+1....I've done 2 now. ALL the info is here that you'll need (MLP)

[RandMan]

Well, you guys seem pretty darn cool and I'm pretty darn overwhelmed, so I don't mind if I toss a few questions out there. I'll try to be as organized and specific as possible so I don't get a bunch of questions to my questions. Here goes...

Soldering:

1.) Do I need to sandpaper the backs of the pots?
2.) Are there a couple of stages when you actually melt solder to the iron, and then dab it onto parts? I saw this in a couple of videos--I think it may have been for passing wire through the holes of lugs, but I was under the impression you never melt the solder onto the iron (except for prepping the tip.)

Wiring:

My wire kit came with:
--a long piece of 18 gauge shielded black wire
--a shorter length of thin black wire
--a really short length of white wire

3.) I understand that I peel back the shielding of the 18 gauge and twist that into its own little wire. Now there is also an internal wire, so does this basically create 2 wires in the end?
4.) I think that you take 3 ends of twisted shielding and solder them all together to some area of the pickup selector--the ground lug I believe? Where do the other ends of these shielded wires go to?
5.) How many wires come out of each pickup (stock epi pups) 1or 2?
6.) Are these pickups compatible with the 50's wiring I keep reading about, and if so, should I find this enticing?
7.) What's the difference between the thin black and thin white wires?
8.) Should I use a heat diffuser for the caps? Any other times?

Miscellaneous:

9.) Can anyone tell I'm not an electrician?
10.) Did anyone make fun of me, in kind of an "Oh, what an adorable little noob" kind of way?

Lots of love in advance,
Randy

[crompo]

Hey.

The shielding (screen) is connected to

1. The back of the pots

2. The "sheath" part of the jack (plug)

3. The pickup covers & pickup body

4. The bridge (will be a little wire from the tailpiece stud through to control cavity and to back of pots)

5. Pickup switch common (as you have already said)

A drawing should show all of this. It really isn't that hard - i think you are worrying about it too much.

You are obviously replacing existing wiring - so as you dimantle this make a note of what goes where and simply duplicate this when installing the new.

You can sand the back of the pots for a good solder joint if you like.

Putting a bit solder onto the tip of the soldering iron is a good idea - just to help conduct heat into the part you are soldering to.

If you haven't soldered anything before practice on something first to get a feel for it.

Try not to put too much heat into the joint - just enough o get a nice shiny finish.

Wayne

[crompo]

Here's one of the better diagrams i found.

You will notice all the "ground" symbols showing that ALL these points are connected together either with the "shield" of the cables or by simply wiring them together.

For example - all backs of pots are wired together with bus wire (not shielded or even insulated)

Bus wire is used from the tailpiece stud to the back of the pots.

Pickup wiring into the control cavity - use the shielding as a wire and solder it to back of pots - Bridge shield to bridge volume pot, neck shield to neck volume pot.

Wiring to pickup selector switch - connect all shields to the body of switch - as shown in diagram - including the jack wire shield.

It's really hard to put this into words so have a look at this:

http://www.guitarheads.net/tech/wiri...s/wiringlp.jpg

[Quill]

There's a "sticky" in this section of the forum - I'll just link it for you - that has some good instructions on soldering:

"Video about how to solder"



Easy enough to miss. There are some good tips in the thread, too.

... I'd hesitate to sand the back of the pots, myself. Some of the better pots are tinned - that is, the surface is already prepared for optimal soldering - and sanding just makes a mess. But, there are those do sand their pots before soldering, and they still manage to get their guitars working and play a little music.

All the usual rules for soldering apply to guitar wiring, too: heat the parts so the solder flows properly, use as little solder as possible, use enough heat so you can make the connections quickly (high heat for a short time does less damage than low heat for a long time) ... the right tip for your iron is important; I use a broad, flat tip to solder pots, and a dab of flux on the pot where I want the solder to go, and it works well for me. Others will be along with more and better help, too. But the video is good, it's well worth a look.

Have fun!

[antz]

I did some basic soldering when I was in school (we made solder balls) but that was it.

Im no electrical engineer so I just bought s soldering iron, the correct solder, the parts I needed and downloaded a wiring diagram off Seymour Duncans website and had a go! The first one I did was a singlue humbucker, single volume and treble bleed. Took me forever to do it!....I then put a new switch in my mates Vintage VS100 for free just to get some practice.

After some practice youll be wiring in time. Swapping out caps, changing pots, full re-wires, changing pups, coil splits, treble bleeds, jack changes....you name it.

Stick at it and youll prevail!

I like to use the wiring diagrams on Seymour Dunans website cos they come in colour.

[Hector Arcadius]

Good thread and it gives courage to someone like me to start (someday) to get his hands dirty with simple electronics. Not at this period of me life though, I barely find the time to play guitar.

[Lungo]

Everything I can think of has been covered, but I'd like to reiterate the importance of using the correct soldering tip for the job. I've seen quite a few people get frustrated (myself included) trying to make connections to the back of pots with a small tip.

[blamo]

ha....

i felt the same way.... I don't have diagnosed OCD, as I've never tested for it, but everyone I know says I have it.

anyways... when i found out i could upgrade my electronics, I went buck wild.

weeks upon weeks of research and listening to clips.

opened up my control cavity a few times and was lost as hell. closed it back up.

did more research.

I am NOT an electrical engineer. i barely know how to solder.

I ordered all my parts from tonemojo. when they arrived i pulled open a couple diagrams and went to work.

it is MUCH easier once you get in there and start from scratch. don't be intimidated by all the wires.

[steeler80]

You're definitely not alone. I have an Epi with a bad switch. So yesterday, I bought a better quality replacement. I've never really soldered before, but I have watched others and wiring in the switch is one of the easiest things to do, right? So I jumped in and started on my project.

A hundred or so third degree burns later, I had a switch that worked on either pickup but would not play both (switch in the middle). I had a hum that would stop when I touched the strings and I could touch a screw on the back plate and have a rumble that would shake the house. So, I figure, obviously it's a grounding problem. I have no idea how to fix it, but, hey, at least I'm reasonably sure what's wrong.

I've got a friend that's an electrical whiz. The guitar will be in his hands soon.

[blamo]

one of hte easiest grounding problems to create is the shielded paint in the cavities... make sure your pots and hot wires arent touching the walls of the cavities.

the ears on the pots, tabs on the switches cannot touch the walls!!

[gtr-tek]

"Well, you guys seem pretty darn cool and I'm pretty darn overwhelmed, so I don't mind if I toss a few questions out there. I'll try to be as organized and specific as possible so I don't get a bunch of questions to my questions. Here goes...

Soldering:

1.) Do I need to sandpaper the backs of the pots?

Not necessarily. If they are stubborn and don't take solder easily, it can help. A bit of paste flux can also help. Radio Shack has it.

2.) Are there a couple of stages when you actually melt solder to the iron, and then dab it onto parts? I saw this in a couple of videos--I think it may have been for passing wire through the holes of lugs, but I was under the impression you never melt the solder onto the iron (except for prepping the tip.)

Not generally. You want to apply solder to the heated connection so it flows into the connection.

Wiring:

My wire kit came with:
--a long piece of 18 gauge shielded black wire
--a shorter length of thin black wire
--a really short length of white wire

3.) I understand that I peel back the shielding of the 18 gauge and twist that into its own little wire. Now there is also an internal wire, so does this basically create 2 wires in the end?

Yes. The center wire is the hot lead and the outer shielding goes to ground.

4.) I think that you take 3 ends of twisted shielding and solder them all together to some area of the pickup selector--the ground lug I believe? Where do the other ends of these shielded wires go to?

The back of a pot usually.

5.) How many wires come out of each pickup (stock epi pups) 1or 2?

Usually they are single conductor shielded.

6.) Are these pickups compatible with the 50's wiring I keep reading about, and if so, should I find this enticing?

Yes and YES! I love the '50s style wiring. It helps the controls work better without turning the sound to mud.

7.) What's the difference between the thin black and thin white wires?

The color and where the diagram tells you to put them. I'm not sure without seeing the kit instructions. My best guess is the white wire is a jumper for the switch.

8.) Should I use a heat diffuser for the caps? Any other times?

You can. If you work quickly (once you practice a bit) you won't need to.

Miscellaneous:

9.) Can anyone tell I'm not an electrician?

Yes! ;-)

10.) Did anyone make fun of me, in kind of an "Oh, what an adorable little noob" kind of way?

Not me!

I hope this helps.

[Ermghoti]

Mostly good advice. If you just aren't getting it, my rehearsal space is in Brighton, with most of my guitar-working-on-crap in there. Show up with a few pots and switches, I'll walk you through a couple of wiring harnesses sometime.

[SonicBoom]

Ermghoti - thanks for steppin' up and offering to help the guy out. Very cool of you.

RandMan - Take Ermghoti up on his offer. Nothing helps like having an experienced set of eyes guiding you and getting a little encouragement along the way.

As for everyone being an electrical engineer, funny, I live in Silicon Valley and most of the engineers I've come across can't solder. They can design, but they barely know which end of the soldering iron is hot.

Lots of great amp techs and designers aren't EEs. You don't need to be. All you need is some interest and the desire to learn. Keep doing what you are doing - asking questions. Just stear clear of amp mods until you know a lot more. An unplugged amp can still kill you, if you don't know what you are doing.

[RandMan]

Originally Posted by SonicBoom

Ermghoti - thanks for steppin' up and offering to help the guy out. Very cool of you.

Thank you to EVERYONE for stepping up--a few years ago I swore myself off of forums of all kinds because it seems like all of them are pissing contests and ego-inflating competitions. A few months ago I posted a message to some guitar forum asking a couple of questions about my multi-effect pedal, and the only replies I got where about how lousy my pedal is and how I should save up for some boutique ones.

I did join this forum and post my questions expecting to get a bunch of irritated "use the search feature" answers from guys who only want to talk about 26-way push/pull rotary flux capacitors for '59 sunbursts. Oh how delightful it was to see everyone jump in and give me very patient advice on the basics. Thank you so much

I think tomorrow is the day I'm finally gonna go for this--I have all my electronics, wire strippers, 40 watt Weller soldering gun, a heat diffuser, and some 60/40 soldering wire. I would love it if I could type out a walkthrough of what I think I should be doing (while looking at the wiring diagram right now) and get some feedback from you gurus if I'm on the right track. Here goes:

1.) There is the thick shielded cable that is about 2 1/2 feet long. I believe I am going to be cutting this into 3 pieces and twisting the shielding from each end of the 3 cables, thus creating a total of 6 hot and 6 ground connections from that one length of shielded cable.

2.) With the pickup selector I'll take the 2 inner, thin lugs and solder them together, which would make 3 connections on that side and then the chunky ground lug by itself on the other side. All 3 shielding from one end of the cables get twisted together and then soldered to the ground lug? Seems like an awful lot of wire to fit through that tiny hole.
Oh man, this is SO overwhelming. Just looked at things for a moment and thinking--does only 1 wire go from the ground lug on the selector and then that goes right down to the back of a volume pot? If so, and it's the twisted shielding that plays this role, what happens to the inner hot wire from that shielded cable; does it just dangle there and not connect to anything?

3.) The guy on the phone who sold me the wiring kit told me that I take the shielded cable and cut it into 3 pieces. There's 4 connection points on the pickup selector and this is why I am getting so damn confused.Now I just went to guitarelectronics.com and their diagram for a 2 humbucker/2 vol./2 tone/3 way is showing the middle lug on the pickup is going down and connecting to a lug on a volume pot, yet in other diagrams the middle lug goes out from the selector and connects to the hot output of the output jack. I know everyone has been telling that I'm overthinking this stuff and that is really simple, but this is @*%$!@ confusing as hell!

4.) I have to go outside and have a cigarette and maybe sleep on this--possibly wait until next weekend to dive into this project. Can anyone give some guidance on this emotionally driven mish-mash that I have so far? Typically when I research/obsess about something this much, the more I get into the more incredibly straightforward it becomes. Ah but this....

Signed,
Mentally Swamped in Boston

[Thumpalumpacus]

It'll please you to know that I'm not an electrical engineer.

[LeftyF2003]

I didn't notice if it was already said but it's a good idea to get a test pot or something to solder to and some scrap wire and practice practice practice. You need to make your connections so the solder flows evenly and make sure not to apply too much heat for too long or you'll cook the pots (ask me how I know!). Also be careful to use the 30 watt setting if you have it on your Weller, as 40 watts can be a bit hot on the pots.

To your wiring questions, you are likely looking at 2 different styles of wiring a Les Paul style harness. Version 1) is the 50s style. Version 2) is modern style. You are likely building it as modern style. I've attached both diagrams just so you can compare. I've also included a shot of my wiring cavity to show how the wiring and grounding are done. I'll let someone that's done this harness more recently than me give you the specific answers to your questions.

Hope that's helpful and good luck! You'll be very proud of yourself when you're done and it all works

[onioner]

+1 for 'you'll figure it out.' I went from totally clueless to damn near passable in a couple months. Actually, I think my last job was pretty darned slick. Just took doing it a few times, and learning to match up diagrams with what you'll actually see.

Originally Posted by Rich

These days, the way I figure it I wouldn't try to remove my own pancreas, I'll pay a pro to do it.

Chicken.

[dennistruckdriver]

I'm not an expert, but I play one on MLP.

[RandMan]

News flash:

I am currently inside the belly of the beast and I believe things are slowly starting to come together for me (mentally for now--haven't started any wiring yet.) I have a question and if the answer is what I think it is, I am going to be one very happy camper and it will clear up my confusion. And that question is... After I connect a ground wire to one of the components (such as the output jack or pickup selector,) the other end of that ground wire doesn't necessarily have an exact spot it needs to be soldered to, yes? Like it could go onto the back of a volume or tone pot, or to the ground lug of the pickup selector? In other words as long as the other end is soldered to some ground metal somewhere in the guitar I am alright. Am I in the ballpark here? Or does each ground wire have an exact spot it needs to land on?

So for example, if I am looking at this diagram: http://www.guitarheads.net/tech/wiri...s/wiringlp.jpg and it is showing the back lug of the pup selector is going to ground and the sleeve of the output is also going to ground, I could use one cable to connect those two ground connections together, or I could use 2 cables and have each lead to the back of a pot or something? Now I'm getting excited...

[rocknhorse1]

Originally Posted by onioner

+1 for 'you'll figure it out.' I went from totally clueless to damn near passable in a couple months. Actually, I think my last job was pretty darned slick. Just took doing it a few times, and learning to match up diagrams with what you'll actually see.



Chicken.

Nope, smart...and problem free.

[rocknhorse1]

Originally Posted by RandMan

News flash:

I am currently inside the belly of the beast and I believe things are slowly starting to come together for me (mentally for now--haven't started any wiring yet.) I have a question and if the answer is what I think it is, I am going to be one very happy camper and it will clear up my confusion. And that question is... After I connect a ground wire to one of the components (such as the output jack or pickup selector,) the other end of that ground wire doesn't necessarily have an exact spot it needs to be soldered to, yes? Like it could go onto the back of a volume or tone pot, or to the ground lug of the pickup selector? In other words as long as the other end is soldered to some ground metal somewhere in the guitar I am alright. Am I in the ballpark here? Or does each ground wire have an exact spot it needs to land on?

So for example, if I am looking at this diagram: http://www.guitarheads.net/tech/wiri...s/wiringlp.jpg and it is showing the back lug of the pup selector is going to ground and the sleeve of the output is also going to ground, I could use one cable to connect those two ground connections together, or I could use 2 cables and have each lead to the back of a pot or something? Now I'm getting excited...

I believe there should only be ONE spot where things go to ground. Multiple paths to ground creates ground loop problems,and ground loops crate hum/noise. I am not an expert, so maybe someone who knows whats up can confirm that, but I am almost certain that is the case.

[Ermghoti]

Multiple paths to ground is bad, but once you ground a pot case, the whole case is grounded, and anything you solder to it is grounded. If I'm reading RandMan correctly, the answer is, yes, there is no specific location to solder a given ground wire, do what is convenient/tidy.

[Goldtop75]

Trained electronics engineer right here! Though I never practised what I learnt. heh... Either you pay a pro to do it (much recommended, or the troubleshooting would kill you and your guitar parts), or you check out some soldering tips on youtube. In terms of reading the diagram, it's pretty simple, but you need to understannd what some symbols mean.

And unless you have the right tools for the job (solding iron, multi-meter, etc etc), I'd suggest you just get a pro to do it.

[RandMan]

I do love everyone's contributions and guidance--it's not the soldering that I am worried or confused about, it's the "what goes where" part of the wiring and to make sure that I do it correctly (see OCD confession at top.) So in terms of having a common grounding spot, would that mean that this diagram from Seymour Duncan is, technically speaking, not ideal? The reason I ask is that it looks like wires are being grounded to all 4 pots.

Rocknhorse, are you saying that all of the different ground wires should land on one big solder blob on the back of one single pot? Or were just saying that it is important that all connect together in some way, forming a full "perfect circle?"

Thank you again everyone--I'm more and more ready to dive in as the days pass by!!!