Are bumblebee caps worth it?

[imc_1121]

I'm thinking about putting some bumblebee caps in my les paul trad pro, do you think it's worth it?

[martin6string]

They are great caps for sure, but not cheap. Some good NOS Paper in Oil's are a great alternative if you don't want to lay out the cash the Bee's command.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by imc_1121

I'm thinking about putting some bumblebee caps in my les paul trad pro, do you think it's worth it?

Yeah they can have a warm and woody Tone and sound great IMO, but some of the old caps have drifted dark so just be sure you know what they actually read on a meter before buying them. Many sellers will not post actual meter readings, many do. For example an .022 Bee may actually read .035 and that is way to dark for humbuckers and not what you want.

[52trapeze]

The ones i got from Jonesy this summer were great, as were the PIO Russian ones i got from him.

[deepblue]

Yes...can I tell the difference from other caps?...nope. But they look so cool. lol

[beginnerguitargod]

You won't notice a huge difference most likely, but there is definitelly a difference.
Whether or not they're worth it to you, is totally different, you'll have to decide that on you're own, because obviously, if you're insanely rich, $200 is nothing. So you'll have to decide for that on you're own. But theres definitelly other things you could do with that money, and it could have a larger impact on you're sound.

My recommendation is, if you have a simple setup, with just a combo amp, and stock guitar, I'd invest in other stuff first, before the capacitor model.
But if you have a lot of other stuff to help improve you're tone, I'd definitely do it.

[5F6-A]

I am biased....

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/grou...bumblebee.html

[5F6-A]

the cavity of my LP:

[Sterling # Sound]

I had really good repros in my LP and now have Bumblebees. I thought the difference would be just at the lower (or lowest) end of the tone range. But I think it adds some smoothness across the range. So yes, I think it works, and of course the woman tone cannot be beat.

Main questions are:
a) are the values still OK? (see Jonesy post)
b) what is the price you can buy them for?

[Liam]

Originally Posted by Sterling # Sound

I had really good repros in my LP and now have Bumblebees. I thought the difference would be just at the lower (or lowest) end of the tone range. But I think it adds some smoothness across the range. So yes, I think it works, and of course the woman tone cannot be beat.

Main questions are:
a) are the values still OK? (see Jonesy post)
b) what is the price you can buy them for?

A good point. 0.020 and 0.018 uF are generally getting towards the "desired" cap value as they degrade, but to my ears sound better. And not having two red stripes at one end seems to bring the price down an awful lot. Probably go to 0.015 or less for the neck pickup.

As for whether they are worth it: yes, they sound better than pretty much anything else to my ears, but I'm not dropping silly money on a pair of caps. The difference isn't big enough to warrant the expense. I've got them in two of my guitars.

Liam

[benjammin420]

The 'Bees I have are the best caps I've used, I think they cost me $30 for the pair, wel worth it IMO

[jonesy]

These are Genuine 1950's Sprague .010 20% 400V Bees, after adding the leads on them I meter and mark them all with their actual values. Lower values for neck, larger values for bridge. A lot more affordable than the .022's and they still sound great.

[jonesy]

Top: Genuine 1950's .022 400v Bees that still read within specs. Below: Left Handed Gibson Les Paul vintage 50's style harness that I built last week with the best 10% long shaft CTS 500XL pots. I used the second pair of the .022's to build a 50's style harness for an R9 as well.

[gtrplayr1976]

Originally Posted by jonesy

These are Genuine 1950's Sprague .010 20% 400V Bees, after adding the leads on them I meter and mark them all with their actual values. Lower values for neck, larger values for bridge. A lot more affordable than the .022's and they still sound great.

What kind of meter do you use to check caps ?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by gtrplayr1976

What kind of meter do you use to check caps ?

I have a VIOT Multi-Meter and also the Cap. meter that is shown in the pics. Not all millimeters have a setting for capacitance, and I don't need to check them for voltage leakage since they are being used as Tone caps in guitars so I am more concerned with what the actually read in MFD.

[dwagar]

you have to get a meter with a capacitance setting. If you buy from Jonesy, they come with the actual value marked on tags.

[gtrplayr1976]

Originally Posted by jonesy

I have a VIOT Multi-Meter and also the Cap. meter that is shown in the pics. Not all millimeters have a setting for capacitance, and I don't need to check them for voltage leakage since they are being used as Tone caps in guitars so I am more concerned with what the actually read in MFD.

Ahh...okay..I'm not sure mine has a capacitance setting.....what are your thoughts on xicon poly for tone caps ?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by gtrplayr1976

Ahh...okay..I'm not sure mine has a capacitance setting.....what are your thoughts on xicon poly for tone caps ?

Not familiar with xicon poly, some of the poly caps like the Russian PETP or Sprague 715P Orange drops are not bad. More sterile and clean than pio, not as warm. Some Poly caps can be a bit harsh on top and muddy on the bottom. I actually prefer a good dime sized .02 or .05 Ceramic disc cap for some honk and grit over any of the Poly caps I have tried.

[gtrplayr1976]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Not familiar with xicon poly, some of the poly caps like the Russian PETP or Sprague 715P Orange drops are not bad. More sterile and clean than pio, not as warm. Some Poly caps can be a bit harsh on top and muddy on the bottom. I actually prefer a good dime sized .02 or .05 Ceramic disc cap for some honk and grit over any of the Poly caps I have tried.

Interesting...I figured the ceramics would be the worst of the bunch.

[JMV]

From my personal experience, nothing sounds quite like an old bee though many come close. I'd say if you just want to get in the ballpark of tone but don't want to break the bank, Russian K40s are an affordable option and there are MANY old USA caps that will get you even closer to the old bee sound.

I have a set of NOS .022 bees in my R8 and they were worth the cost to me. I have another going in my Kauer Daylighter Jr.




And another thought...for this thread in particular, it'd be nice to throw in your personal experiences with old bees. There are a couple who have commented I'd bet have never even seen an old bee, let alone used one in any setting.

[dwagar]

Good point.

Awhile ago I did a bench test with Jonesy, tested quite a few different caps. While some came close to a Bee, some very close, none made it all the way IMO.

I tend to use .010, .015, .018 because
- I feel .022s are a bit too dark on full roll off
- I'm too cheap to pay the big upcharge on .022 400v Bees

[b_sirman]

Well I don't know if this answers the original question but, I have a 2007 R8. The guitar sounded great stock, better than anything I owned before. I got an RS-reissue kit with the bumblebee caps for it and now it sounds twice as good. I am not well read on caps so I do not know if the caps I got with the RS kit are the real deal but the $100 (plus shipping and customs) I paid for them was well worth the money. How else could I get such an improvement on tone for the price of a stomp box? If there was a $3000 upgrade that made a Corvette reach 60mph 1,5 sec quicker and improved the top speed with no ill effects it would be well worth the money, right? I think the same logic goes for guitars. Well of course there are ways to get the same cap cheaper and not pay premium for the set. That would then be even better value for money. But I guess I took the easy way.

[5F6-A]

I use NOS ceramic discs in my Strat with great results....

[Shai`tan]

I have never added the Bees.... swapped out anything else for them I mean. But I got some from phlz 8, and put them in my EMCT Kit. They really are sweet. I`d say they are worth it yeah.

[IndySouthPaw]

I have 3 guitars that I have PIO caps in now. I have reissues in an epi LP and Sheraton and I just got original bees in my Gibson LP. There is a noticeable difference! If you use your controls on board and have 50's wiring these bees will sing sing sing. Like Jonesy said, they have an woody almost horn quality which I have been searching for for a long time. Pics can be found on my profile page. I have even found that they are a little more responsive than NOS PIO caps. Just another thought...

[Nicky]

[jonesy]

Wow $112.00 for a pair of the fake Gibson repro Bees at MFI


Bumblebee caps at MF ... not for me!!! - Telecaster Guitar Forum


Buy Gibson Historic Bumblebee Capacitors 2-pack | Potentiometers & Knobs | Musician's Friend

[moff40]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Wow $112.00 for a pair of the fake Gibson repro Bees at MFI


Bumblebee caps at MF ... not for me!!! - Telecaster Guitar Forum


Buy Gibson Historic Bumblebee Capacitors 2-pack | Potentiometers & Knobs | Musician's Friend

What a ripoff. Wesco makes the actual caps that are inside those replica bees, and they cost a tiny fraction of that.

Gibson wants you to believe that everything they "make" is premium quality, but this kind of thing makes you wonder what other items Gibson is marketing as "high-quality", but are actually nothing more than overpriced...

[Dan]

Originally Posted by jonesy

Wow $112.00 for a pair of the fake Gibson repro Bees at MFI


Bumblebee caps at MF ... not for me!!! - Telecaster Guitar Forum


Buy Gibson Historic Bumblebee Capacitors 2-pack | Potentiometers & Knobs | Musician's Friend

I saw those on MF a while back. The whole thing seems downright illegal, given how much they are charging for a product that is clearly being falsely advertised. But don't let some folks know that everything Gibson makes isn't perfect

[MrRhoads]

Real Bumblebees are awesome and truly unique
IMO there's a reason as to why we are so many that love them
I've got 4 of them, all from Jonesy and in the neck of a Les Paul i can't think of anything else for my taste.