Does having a "cheap" switch and output jack degrade your sound?

[gregggyf]

Good Evening,

I was wondering if using a cheap switch/output jack would/could somehow degrade the electrified sound of the guitar.

I can see that a cheap switch or jack causing some sort of mechanical problem in the future, but was wondering if the sound would/could be hindered.

Thank you again.

Greg

[Ed Zeppeli]

Probably not if the connection is sound....as in solid and makes good contact.

Your second sentence is probably the accurate failure point of said cheap switch/jack.

[jonesy]

Cheap switches and jacks use lesser grade metals, and are not constructed as good. Whether you can noticeably hear a difference is debatable. (until they fail) A cheap patch cord does not sound as good as a quality patch cord, that is a fairly common agreement among most players.

There is also an in between mode where cheap components will go from working, to partially working and then not working. It doesn't take long for a cheap switch or output jack to start causing problems and that will effect your Tone for sure, causing weak or partial output.

If you are a serious player then you want good reliable gear. Who wants to be at a lesson or at a gig and then have your switch start messing up. Just like anything else you get what you pay for when it comes to switches, pots, caps or output jacks.

[ES350]

Switchcraft, Switchcraft, Switchcraft...I have some that are over 50 years old that work just fine. Can't say the same for the cheapo import stuff; every one I've ever used has failed within a year or two...life's too short to use cheesy components.

[5F6-A]

why compromising?

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by ES350

Switchcraft, Switchcraft, Switchcraft...I have some that are over 50 years old that work just fine. Can't say the same for the cheapo import stuff; every one I've ever used has failed within a year or two...life's too short to use cheesy components.

Yep I use Switchcraft switches and output jacks on all my Gibson style wiring harness's now. And for Fender it's CRL, CRL, CRL 3 & 5 way blade switches.

[5F6-A]

for myStrat I like my schaller switch but switchcraft for gibbies.

[Raz59]

Originally Posted by gregggyf

I can see that a cheap switch or jack causing some sort of mechanical problem in the future, but was wondering if the sound would/could be hindered.

Greg

In case of the jack, you can use anything but the only thing that will change is the mechanical feel - looser VS tighter. Impact on sound? None whatsoever (personal experience).

In the case of the switch, it's also mechanical reliability. No, the sound won't be changed/hindered and there won't be any kind of magical tone loss.
And things like a switch and jack have a function that is different from a cable. Just saying.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Raz59

In case of the jack, you can use anything but the only thing that will change is the mechanical feel - looser VS tighter. Impact on sound? None whatsoever (personal experience).

In the case of the switch, it's also mechanical reliability. No, the sound won't be changed/hindered and there won't be any kind of magical tone loss.
And things like a switch and jack have a function that is different from a cable. Just saying.

Totally agree. There may be a functional, mechanical difference. But I highly doubt you'll hear any sort of difference in sound or tone.

[gtr-tek]

+1 Durability is the key. The output jack is the first thing I replace. Like said before, Switchcraft baby!

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by gtr-tek

+1 Durability is the key. The output jack is the first thing I replace. Like said before, Switchcraft baby!

OP isn't asking about durability. He's asking about a sonic difference.

[gregggyf]

Thank you all very much for your helpful responese.
I just emailed Gibson a question. As a matter of interest I will paste it here:

Good Afternoon,

I have a few questions concerning my 1998 Gibson Les Paul Classic.

Could you please tell me if this guitar came stock with:

1. Switchcraft pickup selector switch
2. Switchcraft output jack
3. CTS potentiometers

Thank you very much.

Greg[B]

And to everyone on MLP, thanks again.

[zontar]

Don't forget other parts that connect with theses as well.

My LP copy was making all sorts of noise at the jack, and I was thinking I'd need to replace the jack when I redo the pickups (I still might)

But I took a look a jack to see if it was loose or tight (Another important factor)
It was tight, but the jack plate was cracked--it's an old guitar.

I replaced it with a metal jack plate, and haven't had any crackles since.
I had previously done this to my Les Paul Custom.
If you have a Les Paul (or a copy), I would highly recommend getting a metal jack plate to replace the plastic one it probably came with.
It will hold the jack more firmly and won't crack if you over tighten it--so less noise/crackling there.

Of course I would keep the plastic one, so you can return it to stock if you sell it.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by zontar

Don't forget other parts that connect with theses as well.

My LP copy was making all sorts of noise at the jack, and I was thinking I'd need to replace the jack when I redo the pickups (I still might)

But I took a look a jack to see if it was loose or tight (Another important factor)
It was tight, but the jack plate was cracked--it's an old guitar.

I replaced it with a metal jack plate, and haven't had any crackles since.
I had previously done this to my Les Paul Custom.
If you have a Les Paul (or a copy), I would highly recommend getting a metal jack plate to replace the plastic one it probably came with.
It will hold the jack more firmly and won't crack if you over tighten it--so less noise/crackling there.

Of course I would keep the plastic one, so you can return it to stock if you sell it.

Tell me, one more time, how a plastic jack plate or a cracked jack plate causes noise? It's not part of the circuit... Plastic isn't a conductor.

[zontar]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

Tell me, one more time, how a plastic jack plate or a cracked jack plate causes noise? It's not part of the circuit... Plastic isn't a conductor.

I know that--I never said the jack plate was part of the circuit, but if the plastic is cracked the jack can move. That can cause the noise.
Please re-read my post--I refer to that.
If the jack is loose for any reason and you move the guitar it can cause crackling.

So a cracked plastic jack plate can affect the sound, without being part of the circuit, because it isn't, but it is part of the construction.

If a part of the circuit moves, and it isn't supposed to, it can cause noise.
If the but holding the jack in place is loose, the jack can move causing noise.
To be clear, the plastic itself isn't actually causing the noise, nor are the cracks, but the movement of the jack, caused by a cracked plastic jack plate.


I am being repetitive on purpose to make my point clear.

This is based on experience. Both my LP copy & y Custom had crackling with a plastic jack plate that was cracked.

All I changed was putting on a metal jack plate. Everything else stayed the same, and no crackling since the metal jack plate was installed.

It has nothing to do with being part of the circuit.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by zontar

I know that--I never said the jack plate was part of the circuit, but if the plastic is cracked the jack can move. That can cause the noise.
Please re-read my post--I refer to that.
If the jack is loose for any reason and you move the guitar it can cause crackling.

So a cracked plastic jack plate can affect the sound, without being part of the circuit, because it isn't, but it is part of the construction.

If a part of the circuit moves, and it isn't supposed to, it can cause noise.
If the but holding the jack in place is loose, the jack can move causing noise.
To be clear, the plastic itself isn't actually causing the noise, nor are the cracks, but the movement of the jack, caused by a cracked plastic jack plate.


I am being repetitive on purpose to make my point clear.

This is based on experience. Both my LP copy & y Custom had crackling with a plastic jack plate that was cracked.

All I changed was putting on a metal jack plate. Everything else stayed the same, and no crackling since the metal jack plate was installed.

It has nothing to do with being part of the circuit.

But it's not part of the circuit...

































jk, bro.

[Raz59]

The normal way of assembling a jack to the jack plate is in itself flawed...The outside screw, even it has a washer behind it, will eventually loosen and the jack will spin around, pulling the wires and twisting them.

My Epi LP had this ingenious way of assembling things: instead of the having a round hole, it would be two straight lines united by two curves...and the jack was flat sided as well, so it fitted like a glove and there was no spinning.
Now I have a Switchcraft jack and while it the plugging in feels sturdier, sometimes it gets loosened. And the plate is getting cracked from all the tightening too.

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Raz59

The normal way of assembling a jack to the jack plate is in itself flawed...The outside screw, even it has a washer behind it, will eventually loosen and the jack will spin around, pulling the wires and twisting them.

My Epi LP had this ingenious way of assembling things: instead of the having a round hole, it would be two straight lines united by two curves...and the jack was flat sided as well, so it fitted like a glove and there was no spinning.
Now I have a Switchcraft jack and while it the plugging in feels sturdier, sometimes it gets loosened. And the plate is getting cracked from all the tightening too.

I believe that's called a D Knockout. It's commonly used on the AC cord mounting hole on amps. Keeps whatever you mount to it from rotating.

[Raz59]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

I believe that's called a D Knockout. It's commonly used on the AC cord mounting hole on amps. Keeps whatever you mount to it from rotating.

Yeah, mine was a double D, bingo.
If you wanna be anal about details, this would be the way to go. Less wood removed, less metal used, giving out a warm, woody natural sound. (lol)

[FourT6and2]

Originally Posted by Raz59

Yeah, mine was a double D, bingo.
If you wanna be anal about details, this would be the way to go. Less wood removed, less metal used, giving out a warm, woody natural sound. (lol)

I dunno. I think the sharp edges on a D Knockout will add more odd-order harmonics to the tone, causing the audience to instantly lose interest in my blooze shredding. Not good!

[FUS44]

It wouldn't surprise me. But I disagree with the notion that "quality" components are always better. Sometimes the performance of a guitar is greater than the sum of its parts. Now there are combos that have been proven, and using quality components usually will get you a good sound. I'm not as detailed as someone like Eric Johnson, but he takes the idea of 'greater than the sum of its parts' to its extreme by mixing new and old, cheap and expensive.
I haven't messed with output jacks, but have I found some really cheap cables and some relatively no name PU wire that I feel really affect the sound in a positive way. Maybe a little noisier, but much more nasty and smooth when needed. Your results may vary.

[gtr-tek]

Originally Posted by FourT6and2

OP isn't asking about durability. He's asking about a sonic difference.

The plus one in my post referred to the post above mine where I agreed that there is no sonic difference.

[Bristol Posse]

There will be no sonic difference until the cheap stuff fails after a few months.

Then the sonic difference will be no sound from cheap gear vs good signal from more relaible gear

If you are playing at home for kicks and giggles then who cares, you have time to fix the guitar if there is a problem with the switch.
If you are gigging or paying for studio time and need to be able to rely on the output of your guitar for a paycheck, then why would you not want proven durability and reliability in the components

It's an investment of a few bucks and a few minutes with a soldering iron to take one aspect of your guitar's reliability to the back burner so why not?

[dave-m]

Technically speaking, anything in the circuit path can and does alter/degrade your sound, the only way it wouldn't is if the circuit path was a completly perfect conductor. Cheaper componets can have higher resistance or capacitance causing the signal to be altered.

But, in general the signal is altered on such a miniscule level that human hearing can not tell the difference. Like others have stated, quality parts are more durable and dependable, that should be reason enough to use them.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by dave-m

Technically speaking, anything in the circuit path can and does alter/degrade your sound, the only way it wouldn't is if the circuit path was a completly perfect conductor. Cheaper componets can have higher resistance or capacitance causing the signal to be altered.

But, in general the signal is altered on such a miniscule level that human hearing can not tell the difference. Like others have stated, quality parts are more durable and dependable, that should be reason enough to use them.

Well said Sir

[Diocletian]

Originally Posted by Bristol Posse

There will be no sonic difference until the cheap stuff fails after a few months.

I scratch my head when I read posts like this on the internet - I've got about ten guitars, had lots more over the years, and most of them have been cheaper ones, with cheap parts (Squiers, Epiphones, import Jacksons etc). These guitars are years old, yet the switches, pots etc still work like they're meant to if you just take care of them and clean them inside occasionally.

Sure, some break, but so does anything.

[jonesy]

Originally Posted by Diocletian

I scratch my head when I read posts like this on the internet - I've got about ten guitars, had lots more over the years, and most of them have been cheaper ones, with cheap parts (Squiers, Epiphones, import Jacksons etc). These guitars are years old, yet the switches, pots etc still work like they're meant to if you just take care of them and clean them inside occasionally.

Sure, some break, but so does anything.

I have done a lot of repairs for customers over the years. And I have a whole box full of dozens of failed switches, jacks and pots that had to be replaced in epi's, squires and other import guitars. It happens because those parts are cheaply made to begin with

I have rarely ever had to replace any Switchcraft switches or jacks, or CTS pots because they are much better quality

[Bristol Posse]

Originally Posted by Diocletian

I scratch my head when I read posts like this on the internet - I've got about ten guitars, had lots more over the years, and most of them have been cheaper ones, with cheap parts (Squiers, Epiphones, import Jacksons etc). These guitars are years old, yet the switches, pots etc still work like they're meant to if you just take care of them and clean them inside occasionally.

Sure, some break, but so does anything.

Good for you !

As I said, if your messing around at home, who cares. Play it till it breaks then fix it, if it doesn't break then woo hoo!

If you're getting paid for gigs or sessions in a studio and your switch breaks you don't get paid. Why trust your ability to feed your family to luck for the sake of a few bucks for a more reliable switch

[Diocletian]

If someone NEEDS a new switch, then yes, I would buy a good quality one. I just find it odd when lots of people on the internet post things like "cheap switches will break in a matter of weeks" when there's millions of mid range guitars out there from the 80's or whatever, beat to hell, yet still with working switches.

[Diocletian]

Originally Posted by Bristol Posse

If you're getting paid for gigs or sessions in a studio and your switch breaks you don't get paid. Why trust your ability to feed your family to luck for the sake of a few bucks for a more reliable switch

Surely you have a back up guitar?