Please help date these Sprague Bumblebees

[cooljuk]

Can any of you cap/vintage experts help me date these vintage bees?

I read somewhere that in late 1960 Sprague changed the construction of the bumblebees from PIO to mylar. Is this true? Can anyone confirm if these are PIO or mylar? They have a "2" stamped on one side and a "P" on the other.

I know the yellow cloth insulation is not original. I made it.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[cooljuk]

bumble-bump

[Indyclone]

I thought Sprague switched to what some call Black beauties once they were able to print text on them at the end of the 50's...

[jonesy]

Those Bees are probably mid to late 50's. No way to date the exact year. Mylar has been around since the early 50's, (http://www2.dupont.com/Automotive/en...ms/mylar.html)

If there is a solder blob or a filler tube on one end of the Capacitor case then they are paper in oil for sure, otherwise if not they could be Mylar or pio. Both types from that era sound pretty good.

In the early 1960's the Sprague 160P's or Black Beauties (black case red letters) replaced the Bees, many of those caps were PIO or Mylar.

[cooljuk]

I was hoping you might tune here, Mr. Ambassador. That's just the info I needed.

So with no filler tube showing, is there any way to tell the internal construction? I see some bees have rounded and more irregular ends, and others have very defined edges and clear molding lines. Is that possibly a clue? I'm mostly just curious at this point and hoping to learn. They sound great, so I'm happy with the caps regardless.



Here's a great thread full of (mostly) 59 LP control cavities: Need help..... need 59 control cavity shots - Les Paul Forum Almost all Bees and almost all ones with filler tubes, in the case of this thread at least.

[jonesy]

I guess the bottom line is how do they sound to you? Warm and woody or not so good? Also have you tested them on a meter to see what they actually read? Many drift way past the .022 specs, I have some pio Bees marked .022 but they actually read .038 so they are not much use in an LP.

Also check out the Dr. Vintage website, he has some info but it pretty much says the same things I said about the filler tube and solder blob.

[cooljuk]

Very warm, woody also. They sound very good to me, I have no complaints. Just hoping to educate myself. Much better than the stock replicas, for sure! I did test them with an LCR meter and they are both a hair over .022, but within tolerance. I feel like my other LP with Angela PIO caps is a bit more defined in the low end, but then again it also has different pickups and is a different instrument. Maybe I'll break out the alligator leads this weekend and do a little hot swapping. ...with clips maybe.

[jonesy]

Sounds like those Bees are keepers then!