What would you choose ? Tone or versatility ?

[LPV]

Here's the situation. I have a 100w Jubilee half stack and an 18w Phaez half stack. All of my higher gain gigging/jamming needs are covered. I am debating about another amp to fill a void. Ever since getting my R8 my lust for woody, natural, organic tone has gone up exponentially. I want something a bit cleaner, smoother, creamier for home use and occasional jamming.

I am torn between a used versatile 20w or more combo or an absolutely fantastic 5w classic rock/blues tone monster (swart STR tweed). Both would cost relatively the same. The 5w would need to be mic'd to play out of course. Keep in mind that 99% percent of the time it would not be used in a jam setting.

I guess my real dilemma is I am having a hard time justifying what they want for the 5 watter being an amp that is not loud enough to hold its own in a band without being mic'd. But the tone is just one of those tones you hear and go "that's it, right there". What do I do ?

[scozz]

Versatility is over rated imo, especially for a play at home amp. (That's why they make pedals).

It's all about TONE!!

Get a 5 watt, class A, all tube amp and enjoy!

[hipofutura]

LPV, I can't tell you how much I love my little 5 watt Ceriatone BF/Tweed Vibro Champ clone. I've got about $750 in it, which is quite a bit for a little amp. Not sure how that price compares to the Swart. What you get with this type of amp is warm creamy, yet crystal clear tones with extreme articulation. But, when you crank it up the OD tones are what made the old Fender amps so unique. Take some time to carefully listen to Clapton's Layla album and see if you like the guitar tone. Keep in mind that was done with a junk speaker. The Weber alnico I have in mine takes the little amp to a much better place.

I've never heard of anyone who regretted buying a Swart! A small clean-tone amp would nicely round out your collection.

[Greg's Guitars]

5 watts and pedals ,Mic her at the gigs.

[acstorfer]

You must know where I stand on this. Swart Space Tone baby! Quite honestly, I wouldn't gig without it being mic'd, but jamming (even with a drummer) is fine.

I would really like you to get this by the way, I never got to play a Phaez and I want to know how they stand up to one another.

I have seen many amps come and go, but they will have to pull my SST from my cold dead fingers. There is a reason why these things are rarely on the used market.

Enjoy whatever you end up with!

[hipofutura]

I just looked at the price of the Swart. Expensive little bastard! Considering the amps you currently have, I'd go with a Champ.

[acstorfer]

Oh, if you do go for a SST, don't be concerned about sound versatility. Pedals work excellent with it.

[LPV]

Thanks guys. Keep the opinions coming. astorfer, I hoped you would see this as you are the only guy here I think with the baby swart. Hipo, I am also considering the ceriatione. At 850 the space tone is in the same area and I really think the 8" is a neat idea because it keeps the volume down for home use. But the reverb of the STR tweed is calling to me.

Guys, there is an unexpected NAD in my future...

[hipofutura]

LPV, you can always put an 8" speaker in the Champ. I understand your feelings about reverb. Neither of my amps have it, and I do like reverb. I bought an EH Holy Grail pedal which sounds terrific. It's been so long since I've owned an amp with reverb, I can't tell the difference between the pedal and an actual tank.

[Goldtop75]

for an amp? gigging amp? RELIABILITY!!!!! Something repairable, cheaply!

Oh, it should also sound decent enough...

But for home use? to build my ego? TONE!

[Deftone]

I was just talking to my work buddy who gigs every weekend. He says he uses an 8w Carr Mercury + an extension cab for all his gigs (mostly small bars)

[Iceman0124]

I played through a Swart Space tone tweed reverb the other day... I wants one

http://swartamps.com/swart_space_tone_reverb-tweed.htm

[weirdotis]

Go for tone. You can always do a multi-amp setup if you want versatility.

[Deftone]

Originally Posted by weirdotis

Go for tone. You can always do a multi-amp setup if you want versatility.

That's what you are most likely to end up doing anyway.

[Dolebludger]

Take your fav. guitar to GC and play through a Bugera V22. 22W, 12"speaker 13W triode mode two channels with footswitch. Beyond that, I'll let the amp speak for itself.

[LPV]

decisions, decisions...

[PaisleyPlayer]

Originally Posted by Dolebludger

Take your fav. guitar to GC and play through a Bugera V22. 22W, 12"speaker 13W triode mode two channels with footswitch. Beyond that, I'll let the amp speak for itself.

+100
I Picked up one last weekend for $297 with the 15% coupon they had for Easter Weekend.

[LPV]

I appreciate the suggestions but definitely I'm not a boogera kind of guy. Glad your happy with your amps all, but that's not what I'm into.

[hipofutura]

Originally Posted by LPV

I appreciate the suggestions but definitely I'm not a boogera kind of guy. Glad your happy with your amps all, but that's not what I'm into.

Snob!

[Iceman0124]

Behringer products actually sound pretty good for the most part, the problem is they are so cheaply made they fall apart or wear out very quickly. In a home environmet where it wont be pushed very hard during often infreaquent use nor subjected to the rough handling of the road, it'll probably serve you pretty well till you get bored with it. If you do however subject it to the wear and tear of the road and push it hard ....good luck to ya!

[geochem1st]

Originally Posted by scozz

Versatility is over rated imo, especially for a play at home amp. (That's why they make pedals).

It's all about TONE!!

Get a 5 watt, class A, all tube amp and enjoy!

[LPV]

Originally Posted by hipofutura

Snob!

so be it.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by scozz

Versatility is over rated imo, especially for a play at home amp. (That's why they make pedals).

It's all about TONE!!

Get a 5 watt, class A, all tube amp and enjoy!

+100. Why have a load of different sounding slightly lame tones when you could have just one good one.

Liam

[Deftone]

Originally Posted by LPV

so be it.

Sign me up for the snob train.

[Quill]

So interesting. LPV, I have really enjoyed all your posts about the Phaez amps, and I think about those amps a lot. But the amp I really want is the Swart that you are looking at. If work picks up, I might do it. If you can do it now, while the dollar values are close, it might feel a bit like you are getting something of a break on the price. This is what I tell myself, at times like these ... then I talk myself out of it anyway.

Interesting comment about the 8w Carr, run with a cab - that's another amp I've looked at and dreamed about. Anyone who knows these things, would a 5w Swart with an extension keep up to a sensitive drummer who listens? I try not to play too much with the other kind, if I can help it!

[LPV]

The phaez has an incredible tone. Off the hook good. But it sounds like a great modded plexi or 800 when its in its sweet spot (mine does). I am looking to the swart because its completely different. I love playing blues. When I pickup a guitar for self-gratification that's what I play. I guess I'm getting old On the upside, I couldn't afford it when I was young

[hipofutura]

Originally Posted by LPV

I love playing blues. When I pickup a guitar for self-gratification that's what I play. I guess I'm getting old On the upside, I couldn't afford it when I was young

Since we're talking blues here, have you considered a Dumble clone?

[kpunk56]

Originally Posted by LPV

Here's the situation. I have a 100w Jubilee half stack and an 18w Phaez half stack. All of my higher gain gigging/jamming needs are covered. I am debating about another amp to fill a void. Ever since getting my R8 my lust for woody, natural, organic tone has gone up exponentially. I want something a bit cleaner, smoother, creamier for home use and occasional jamming.

I am torn between a used versatile 20w or more combo or an absolutely fantastic 5w classic rock/blues tone monster (swart STR tweed). Both would cost relatively the same. The 5w would need to be mic'd to play out of course. Keep in mind that 99% percent of the time it would not be used in a jam setting.

I guess my real dilemma is I am having a hard time justifying what they want for the 5 watter being an amp that is not loud enough to hold its own in a band without being mic'd. But the tone is just one of those tones you hear and go "that's it, right there". What do I do ?

I would always go for tone.... Over the years I have had many amps with many different options.. But no matter what I always end up sticking on something that sounds best... Ive never been much for switching channels or stomping on pedals... So I say TONE

[LPV]

Originally Posted by hipofutura

Since we're talking blues here, have you considered a Dumble clone?

Its the whole volume thing. I want something that I can just plug into and get results too. Plus I really like the smaller package concept.

I'll tell you how this all came about. There is a fundraiser happening locally and my son was asked if we wanted to perform. Its an older crowd so he asked me if I wanted just play a couple of blues songs with him and his singer and bassist. But its only a couple of songs and I have nothing convenient to play thru for 2 songs. So I said forget it. Its a small room and a relatively quiet show so a tiny mic'd amp would have been perfect. So, that got me thinking. I'm picky as to what I'll play thru. I know that sounds bad, but I'm not going to get up and sound like crap because I won't be inspired or have any fun.

[Quill]

Originally Posted by LPV

... I love playing blues. When I pickup a guitar for self-gratification that's what I play. I guess I'm getting old On the upside, I couldn't afford it when I was young

I know what you mean - though I think of it - getting older and playing blues a lot - as coming into a state of being that is deep, rich with experience, knowledge, a bit of good-humoured melancholy and underpinned with a finely tuned intuition and a pair of hands that have finally started to learn what not to play. Sounds a lot better than just "getting old", doesn't it?

The Phaez sounds like a great thing, and I kinda want to buy one just to have a cool, hand-built, finely tuned thing from a talented builder - but that'd be the same as getting a Swart, or a L'il Dawg, or a Carr ... I also like that the Phaez wouldn't cross the border, which is more and more of a problem all the time. Terrible shame that that border, of all the borders in the whole world, couldn't be easier than it is.

But - I'm not a great rock player and am more of a chordal player, really, and a cleaner amp is better for me. I love my 45-watt, 2xEL34 Working Dog, but it's proving a bit unreliable, and though hand-built and beautifully made - the turret board is like sculpture - it's surprisingly hard to get fixed. It has a kind of power-scaling master volume - actually called "final output power" - and on my amp, which is used and may have been tinkered with, it's problematic.

But - when it works - this is what it sounds like. (Please don't listen to the whole thing, it's just a stupid jam and needs cutting down; slide the cursor to about 1/4 of the way in, and just listen for a few seconds, you'll get the idea of the amp).

Looking forward to hearing about what you decide to get.

[edit] Just read your note about the fundraiser. That's a shame. Another thing about my Working Dog that I love is that I can walk in with my LP in one hand and my Working Dog in another - the amp, with 1x12" speaker, is lighter than the guitar in its heavy Lifton case - and one chord and set up in an instant, play and sound great, be happy, and that's all I need. Except for this thermos. And this chair. And that's all! Except, this lamp, I need this, too. But that's it! Nothing else!