Help in choosing the right amp.

[hotrat]

I've been looking for some time now to change from my solid state Fender FM 65 2x10 R for a small valve amp, I don't gig so this is for home use only.

I've been ferreting around the net for a while now and I think I have narrowed my search down to The Marshall Class 5 combo, The Blackstar HT 5 head, but coupled with The Marshall Haze 1x12 cab.

Another one I really favour, is the Marshall Haze MHZ15 15 watt head, and the MH 1x12 cab, I haven't tried any of these amps out for myself yet, I'll just have to wait until I've got the cash in place and in a position to buy.

Any experiences with any of the above, can anyone compare the amps on my short list, or maybe any other suggestions, I'm into Blues/Blues Rock, the market is such a bloody minefield when it comes choosing new gear, unless you know exactly what your looking for, unfortunately I lack the experience in this field.

My price range to the max would be around the £500 mark ($760 USD)

Thanks in advance.

[onedaycloser]

The Class 5 Marshall is nice, but the one I tried seemed to have a severe rattle. The Blackstar head I've heard isn't quite all tube, but from the demos I've seen sounds pretty good.

I recently got a modified Valve Junior and couldn't be happier, TWANG on the board here built it for me. I don't think he's taking orders at the moment but you could check out RAT Electronics on your side of the pond. They seem to know their stuff regarding amp mods..

RAT HotRod Valve Junior

[mono]

The Class5 is a good amp, but you will not get any distortion/overdrive unless you start to crank up the volume, and 5w is sure enough to piss off your neighbours/flatmates/parents. It is a very simple amp, and that is part of its charm, but unless you plan to use a pedal infront of it, I wouldn't recommend it for home use.

The Blackstar HT-5 is a great amp, and I am pretty sure it comes in a combo form if you look for it. Might be wrong though. It has a Gain control so will definitely be able to provide you with some distortion/overdrive at very reasonable levels at home. Again, as a 5w amp, it can get pretty loud so you might be able to gig with it if the drummer is reasonable. True, it isn't 100% tube driven or handwired, not a boutique amp by a longshot, but from what I hear it can cover a LOT of bases very convincingly - from Fender cleans to Marshall crunch to Mesa Boogie saturation (someone correct me if I am wrong). If you are looking for a first tube amp, you couldn't go far wrong with it.

I don't really have any experience of the Haze. I did once own a cheap Marshall amp with built in effects and I will say that having have proper tube amps since then, it left a lot to be desired.

Hope that helps...

[hotrat]

Thanks for that Onedaycloser.

[hotrat]

Thanks Mono, yeah the HT 5 does come in a combo, but I prefer the 12" speaker cab.

[acstorfer]

If you are looking for a freakin great five-watt amp for home then really put some thought into the Swart Space Tone. It is not obscenely expensive, $850.00 new but very difficult to find a used one (us owners don't want to give them up). I know you are looking at cabs, but I have had a couple tube amp head and cab combos (epiphone valve jr. and egnater rebel (with Egnater cab and epiphone cab running as a stack)) and this small combo has a much fuller more 3 dimensional sound than either of them. I use to be bias against combos vs. cabs, thinking cabs always were better sounding, but it isn't really the case.

This amp is made for rock and blues if you plug straight in, and every pedal I own sounds great with it, this amp is insaine with metal pedals and the like, so any kind of sound is very doable. The amps you are looking at are fine amps, they make it affordable for anyone (almost) to have a tube amp and they sound very good. They are unfortunately temporary amps however. They are used for until I can get something else, or they break down. The Swart Space Tone is an amp you will always own. The quality of the build and the componeants are top and Michael Swart always backs his stuff up.

I recently had to sell a lot of gear (out of work for quite a while) and if I was to buy/replace anything I sold, I would be tempted to get another Egnater for band jams, it was a very cool little amp, but to be honest, I would prefer to mic up my Swart and jam on that. It breaks up at levels that my neighbors never complain (actually they for the most part enjoy my playing) but there isn't anything I do which I can't play quieter if I had to. And I should note, the last thing I wanted to sell, out of all my gear was my baby Swart.

There are some really great boutique (high quality) small amps out there, for a couple hundred dollars more, IMHO, they are worth it!

Also, this amp can be run with cabs. I used my Egnater cab with it a few times, but to be completly honest, it sounded best with it's enclosed Weber speaker. I believe it is 8".

[mono]

OP lives in the UK - customs and duty on a $850 amp including shipping costs would take him way over-budget. IMHO, and I looked at getting a Swart amp, it falls under the category of "voodoo boutique tone"... and no way near good value for money.

Yeah, if the OP is a 32 year old office worker and wants to put some serious dough into an amp he knows will give him a vintage vibe, then the Swart would be perfect.
But the impression I get is that this is the OP's first tube amp... better to make inexpensive mistakes now and sell on to pay for a more expensive/boutique amp in the future. Meh.

[Iancognito]

Careful though, the small tube amps can still be very loud if it's for home use only.

[hotrat]

Mono, you can add a few years onto that 32, I've made it no secret here, but I would describe myself as a mature student, It's a hobby I got, learning and playing guitar, I'm getting there..slowly.

I'm self employed, and money isn't always a problem, but I don't want to be going too mad and spending to much, but that Swart sounds great, are they available in the UK?

Thanks for your help guys.

[acstorfer]

not sure about UK availability, but MONO makes a good point regarding taxes and such. It is also a matter of perspective, I think the Swart is an amazing value for what you get personally. Very simple, but very very good. No other amp I ever played through sounds as good.

Sorry if I got you hot for an amp that isn't available across the pond. You can check out swartamps.com and check if he'll ship (or any of his distributors).

Also, there is no voodoo here, just good quality.

Actually, I have never seen anyone who ever owned/played on a Swart Amp ever say they aren't worth the money. To each their own.

[mono]

Hehe, maybe I got the wrong end of the stick. I thought the OP was just a kid starting out, and a Swart is probably not the best buy for someone who still doesn't know what direction they want to go in

I love the look of the Swart amps but I think they are very much geared for the established guitarist. I don't think they are available over here and it would total:

Amp cost: $850
Shipping: $100 ish
Duties: 5% extra of $850 + $100 = $997.50
Tax at 17.5% VAT = $997.50 x 1.175 = $1172 = £772.

[acstorfer]

yup, definitely agree with you there Mono. I wouldn't get a Swart for someone just starting out, however assuming you aren't paying all of those rediculous shipping/taxes costs I still might recomend it to a beginner for one reason. If someone is going to spend around the same money, the Swart definitely has a better resale value. While the fact is that I practice more with better equiptment, that didn't matter to me as a kid starting out. I played a strat through my old boom box with one crappy pedal. I actually gigged with that, the radio/cassette player was 20 watts. We had so little choice then, I could save up for a gorilla amp, but that wasn't really any better than what I had, and a tube amp was just way, way, way out of the question.

I would have to believe there is a comparable maker to Swart in the U.K. You may want to look that way as well. I think I got Mono agreeing with me that for an established player who wants a great sound, then go for it! And again, even boutique amps that are simple and small don't cost an insaine amount of money. If money was a factor, hell, I would go with an Epi Valve Jr. again. The amp and cab was very inexpensive and with a simple tube switch (12AX7 to 12AY7 was good enough to put a smile on my face) you have a very descent amp. But again, like I said, for most of us, amps like that are a stepping stone. Get a great amp and you will keep it forever (and more importantly use it), even if you inevitably get more and more amps.

*Note: I am sure there are many amp modders out there who feel these amps are keep forever. You are right, you spent time and money in improving your amps, so I don't consider them the same as amps off the shelf.

[AngryHatter]

To use in the house only?
Why spend so much?

Get Pro Blues or Pro Junior.
15 watts all tube and half the price of the others mentioned.

Heck, I paid $150 for a Pro Junior I found on CL.
I'd save the $500 for another guitar.

[mono]

There are boutique amps in the UK too but they run into quite high prices here as well

What sort of tone is the OP looking for?
EDIT: I see, Blues/Blues Rock.
Would you be willing to build an amp from a kit?

[TeleDog]

Night Train, incredible amp. $500 for the head, portable, all tube, gain to spare! Get a 2x12 or a single 1x12 to go with it, you'll have a great amp with amazing tone and Vox quality!

[hotrat]

Ha...hell I thought I had this narrowed down, more to consider now, but there's no panic.

Mono, you mention building an amp from a kit, to be perfectly honest, I'd never even considered it, maybe if I had plenty of time on my hands, but right now I would say no to that option.

But has anybody here tried out the Marshall haze 15 head, is it a little too loud for home use? I've been told it needs to be cranked to at least half volume to come into it's own, then indeed, it would be too loud for my needs.

But anyway, thanks for your input guys....appreciated.

[eddy999]

I say Vox Night Train as well - great little amp, I play mine just at home too. Can get very loud yet still sounds good at house volumes..

You can get the night train plus the matching cab for a smidge over £500 (see the GAK website), or you could go with another cab (I play through a blackheart 1x12 which sounds great, a touch cheaper than the vox).

[hotrat]

I've been checking out the Vox Night Train out of curiosity, it certainly doe's sound the business.

During the time I've been searching, I've scrolled on past this amp a few times. I think mainly because of how it looks, yeah pretty fickle I know, but it kind of reminds me of a mini air conditioning unit, or the likes.

Looks apart, once I read the specs on it, the more appealing it became, and the price is pretty keen for a 15watt all valve head.

Like I said earlier it just gives me more to think about.


Cheers.

[eddy999]

I quite like the way it looks actually! Nice and compact too. Go and try one out if you can - fantastic cleans and classic Vox overdrive.

[cynic79]

Originally Posted by AngryHatter

To use in the house only?
Why spend so much?

Get Pro Blues or Pro Junior.
15 watts all tube and half the price of the others mentioned.

Heck, I paid $150 for a Pro Junior I found on CL.
I'd save the $500 for another guitar.

Those little Fender combos sure are nice, but it depends on what the OP wants. If he wants overdrive from the amp, rather than a pedal, the Fenders won't be able to accommodate him unless they're cranked, which isn't realistic for a home amp. Same with the Class 5.

The Blackstar is a good choice, if a bit pricey. There are some other hybrid tube combos out there that might suit you, such as the Fender Vibro Champ XD. I quite like mine for home practice and recording, and you can always run the amp section into an external cabinet if you want a bigger sound.

OP, you seem set on a 1x12 cabinet, but have you tried these amps with a 10" speaker? I personally find 12" speakers to be a little boomy sounding, and I tend to gravitate towards 10" speakers, especially at lower volumes. I can certainly get a righteous sound out of my little Fender combo when I run it through my 1x12 cab, but it's a little much for home use sometimes.

[hotrat]

Cynic, it's not that I'm dead set on the 1x12 cab, I'm really open to anything.

It may be that I've been misinformed, but I was of the understanding that for home practice use, I should go for nothing smaller than a 12" speaker.

Hell, I don't know, I'm no expert by any stretch, at present I'm being guided by you guys and reviews on the net.

I haven't tried any of the amps in question,(apart from the class 5) our local stores are pretty limited with their stock, sure they can order in, but I don't want to order something, try it out to find I don't like it, I don't want to f**% anybody about like that.

So I'm really trying to narrow my search right down to the one I know I really want and will be happy with before I go out and buy.


Cheers.

[danzego]

Originally Posted by hotrat

It may be that I've been misinformed, but I was of the understanding that for home practice use, I should go for nothing smaller than a 12" speaker.

As with almost anything, it comes down to who you talk to. Some people like 10" speakers for everything while others like them for nothing. Personally, I prefer a 12" speaker because, all around, I find that I prefer the warmer and bigger sound they provide. Of course, I haven't played every 10" speaker out there and I'd imagine there's one out there that sounds how I would like it to.

[AngryHatter]

Originally Posted by cynic79

Those little Fender combos sure are nice, but it depends on what the OP wants. If he wants overdrive from the amp, rather than a pedal, the Fenders won't be able to accommodate him unless they're cranked, which isn't realistic for a home amp. Same with the Class 5.

The Blackstar is a good choice, if a bit pricey. There are some other hybrid tube combos out there that might suit you, such as the Fender Vibro Champ XD. I quite like mine for home practice and recording, and you can always run the amp section into an external cabinet if you want a bigger sound.

OP, you seem set on a 1x12 cabinet, but have you tried these amps with a 10" speaker? I personally find 12" speakers to be a little boomy sounding, and I tend to gravitate towards 10" speakers, especially at lower volumes. I can certainly get a righteous sound out of my little Fender combo when I run it through my 1x12 cab, but it's a little much for home use sometimes.

The Pro Blues has a master volume - OD to your hearts content.

[cynic79]

Originally Posted by AngryHatter

The Pro Blues has a master volume - OD to your hearts content.

I see. Good to know.

[eddy999]

I understand you might be more willing to pick up an easily available amp from a respected brand (such as Vox/Marshall etc) for your first valve amp - however - if you're willing to dip into the 'boutique' market I can highly recommend a Hall Amplification lil' devil

2 watt 'lil devil' - videos

2 watts, perfect for home playing (and surprisingly loud).. I've just received one and have the feeling my Night Train will be going unused for a while.. Costs $500 new (£391 ish plus VAT etc), with a 2 week or so lead time.

[hotrat]

Thanks for the link

That amp sounds as sweet as a nut.

[eddy999]

Shipping to the UK was $50 also.. You can pick the colour tolex on the amp as they are built to order - i was very imaginative with black all over

[imsilly]

Originally Posted by hotrat

Mono, you can add a few years onto that 32, I've made it no secret here, but I would describe myself as a mature student, It's a hobby I got, learning and playing guitar, I'm getting there..slowly.

I'm self employed, and money isn't always a problem, but I don't want to be going too mad and spending to much, but that Swart sounds great, are they available in the UK?

Thanks for your help guys.

The Swart people won't sell you an amp directly, trust me I have asked. They have a deal with Vintage and Rare and won't sell outside their shops and website. Vintage and Rare having a monopoly have jacked up the price beyond the reasonable. For the price you could buy a new Swart from them you could basically buy some of the best vintage amps ever made.

Though Swarts are great amps (I plan on picking one up when I next go to the states) I would suggest you look into the vintage market. The majority of vintage amps out there are cheaper and better sounding then the modern stuff. I've in past couple of months picked up a few vintage Fenders and Valcos that are perfect for the home and simply destroy a lot of the boutique amps out there.

I would simply forget about a lot of the newer mass produced low watt amps like the Blackstar and Haze they are dogs. They don't have the build quality and character of a lot of the old stuff. I would suggest looking out for any low watt american combo from the 50s you can find.

[hotrat]

Originally Posted by imsilly

I would simply forget about a lot of the newer mass produced low watt amps like the Blackstar and Haze they are dogs. They don't have the build quality and character of a lot of the old stuff. I would suggest looking out for any low watt american combo from the 50s you can find.

I see where your coming from, but recently I've watched dozens of YouTube video reviews from guys who stand to make nothing out of what they are doing, and have displayed none or very little nagativity about these products.

I just came across this today, Guitarist did quite an in depth review on the HT5 series a while back, and it's a pretty damn good one at that, and I think I'd be right in saying these guys know what their talking about, I'm not saying you don't btw, I realise it's each to his own.

But if your interested, have a look....Take care.

http://www.blackstaramps.co.uk/pdf/r...5%20review.pdf

[imsilly]

Originally Posted by hotrat

I see where your coming from, but recently I've watched dozens of YouTube video reviews from guys who stand to make nothing out of what they are doing, and have displayed none or very little nagativity about these products.

I just came across this today, Guitarist did quite an in depth review on the HT5 series a while back, and it's a pretty damn good one at that, and I think I'd be right in saying these guys know what their talking about, I'm not saying you don't btw, I realise it's each to his own.

http://www.blackstaramps.co.uk/pdf/r...5%20review.pdf

While magazine reviews and youtube clips are nice places to start when searching for the right amp they mean little when it comes down to the nitty gritty of buying a tube amp. Everything goes out the window when it comes you standing in a room with your own guitar playing your own music with an amp. Plus a lot of people just have no taste, just because a person may be genuinely pleased with a piece of equipement doesn't mean it's actually any good. There is a lot of terrible tone out there.

A good example of the problem with youtube would be with a clip like this, because I have the exact same amp and it is so much better sounding in real life because you don't have the problem with a poor microphone. The clip is not terrible, but it fails to show you the full range of frequencies these things push out with their big 15" Jensen. In real life the same amp has a nice chimey top and and booming bottom end, but in the clip you don't get that at all or at least not to the same extent. If I'd based my views one clips alone I'd never have bought one of my all time favourite amps.

You Tube

You Tube

The fact remains that a decent vintage Deluxe, Princeton, Harvard or Champ and will sound better then almost anything mass produced in Asia. I bought a Blackface Fender Champ for £170 (Gumtree score, still bargains out there) less then 6 months ago and it would simply blow away any Blackstar amp.

I also picked up an old 50 Gibson GA combo last year for a friend and it was one of the best sounding little amps ever. Beautiful solid pine construction, vintage RCA blackplate tubes, filled with old Spragues and Black Beauty caps and carbon resistors and alnico speaker, all things boutique amp manufacturers will charge through the roof for. All for half your budget. They only issue it had was it's little speaker kinda farted out under high ouput pickups and all you need to do that is pop in a higher watt speaker.

It's little amps like that, that make you forget about modern equipment. You can't tell from an article how an amp will sound and youtube clips are always limited by the quality of the recording equipement and the talent of those demostrating the equipement.

Plus with a lot of vintage equipement you get the bonus of being easily repaired and on the whole sturdier construction. The wealth of knowledge other players have developed on particular models over the years is always great too. I tend to think players rather then journalists know the most about equipement.

With vintage gear you don't lose money from buying it. I have yet to buy a vintage piece of guitar equipement and lost money on it.

I have had modern amps in the past, but they tended to just do the job rather then excite me. The best ones have always been old beaters I picked up for a song. I will never sell my old Super Reverb or Tweed Deluxe they are just jaw droppling good and you can't get anything made these days that even gets close tonewise. The old Tweed Deluxe has a sound modern manufacturers just wouldn't even think to try and clone. I bought them both for between £600 and £700, so you can see what I'm getting at when I say you get so much more for your money. Even right now I have an eye on an absolutely jaw dropping old american amp (can't say what it is here someone might snap it up before I can scrape together the cash to get it) that will probably go for under £1000 and sounds better then any modern amp mass produced or boutique.

The only real issue with buying vintage is you have to do your research yourself and not rely too much on what others say (except those old players who know their stuff) and get your hands dirty. I try to get out and play as much old and random gear as possible. Then when I see something I have played before and liked for the right price I buy it. One piece of advice I have would be to try out some Valco made amps from the 50s and early 60s. They were made by the thousands in numerous variants and brands, with some being truely amongst the best amps ever made. I have a list of old Valcos I'll buy on sight that has kept me in great amps for a while.