Marshall VST or Fender Vibro Champ

[kmk108]

So I'll be getting some cash for my b-day and I'm thinking about getting a "new" amp. The amps that have caught my eye have been the Marshall AVT's and the Fender Vibro Champ XD. I haven't been able to gauge a good clean sound from viewing videos of the AVT's because most of them are people shredding with their bc rich's on full gain. How's the clean on them? I like the clean on the Vibro Champs, but would like to have the overdrive on the marshall more. Plus, the marshall would be about 50 cheaper. I'm not really able to just go somewhere and play a AVT since they're not made anymore and no one around my area is selling one, so any help would be greatly appreciated

edit: I know I screwed up the title and its supposed to be avt

[tomaseriksson]

is it the AVT20XT you are considering? The AVT20XT actually has descent cleans. Go the Marshall route if it's the Marshall sound you want.

[kmk108]

No, From what I'm aware of, it's just called the AVT20

[TeleDog]

I've always heard great things about the AVT20!

What about the Vox Valvetronix? They offer a pretty decent amp emulation, real nice.

[tomaseriksson]

Ok, you mean the old model? That explains why you said it was $50 cheaper then the Vibro. The XT costs a little more.

Marshall Amps :: AVT20XT

[kmk108]

Originally Posted by TeleDog

I've always heard great things about the AVT20!

What about the Vox Valvetronix? They offer a pretty decent amp emulation, real nice.

Here's my deep question I guess. Does the AVT have a real tube sound? I used to have a valvetronix, and I didn't use the emulations, and something just didn't set right with me, idk why. I would probably rarely use the emulation. I was thinking about putting the vibro champ on the first setting and use an overdrive pedal. I have an MG10, and I like the clean, but the overdrive is so computer sounding. The Vibro Champ wow'd me with the authentic tube sound. A good plus with the vibro champ is they have the british setting, which MIGHT get me in the ballpark of the Marshall sound.

Originally Posted by tomaseriksson

Ok, you mean the old model? That explains why you said it was $50 cheaper then the Vibro. The XT costs a little more.

Marshall Amps :: AVT20XT

Yea, I'd be looking at the new ones, but i don't want to pay 600 for a new hybrid

[TeleDog]

If you're not gonna use the special features then it's a waste, I would think.

The AVT20 and the Vox, the Fender and any other such amp is what it is, it's not completely a tube amp but they use a circuit with a tube to produce the sound. The Vibro is closer to the real thing than anything else and it has a beautiful tone, but still, it's not "all tube".

Why don't you get a Valve Junior and mod it? it's fairly simple, and you can chose the "Marshallized" layout or the "Voxy" layout or whatever else you want. Not only they're real tube amps, but you'll end up with a hand wired circuit and that's just cool. lol

Another option would be the Vox AC4TV, a little 4W amp, all tube. The Vox Nightrain is a heck of an amp, louder than hell, also all tube but they run I think $500 for just the head.

Tube overdrive is great, but none of these amps will not get you to the metal zone without a pedal, that's true for most of those low wattage, single-ended class A combos. But if you're looking for a nice tube crunch those might well be your ticket.

[kmk108]

one big thing with me is the tone (treble, mid, bass). Would I be able to mod the epi valve to have those?
the vibro champ might not be "all tube" sound but to my ears it's good enough.
Another thing that's really selling me on the AVT is that they have a headphone jack. I play a lot in my apartment and my walls are very thin so I can't crank my amps up. My main issue with the valve juniors and such is that since it's a single voume knob, you have to turn the volume up to get a good tube sound.

[kmk108]

Forget what I said about the valve jr and volume. I just found out about the cheaper volume controls that aren't 300 dollars

[TeleDog]

Ok, I got mine modified with a new output transformer, handwired board, new speaker and controls for gain, volume and tone. I can tell you, this little thing kicks ass and it's LOUD.... I also installed a little attenuator in the back of the amp similar to what Peavey does, and I can get all the overdrive the thing can dish out at any volume.

I love doing all this myself, but if you want you can also buy the board and just hook it up with very little effort. You can also go get the BitMo kits, I don't know them because I did the wiring myself, but they are all over the net and most people love them. You can basically have your tone control, increase the boost, use attenuators to handle the output... DIY or kits, whatever you want. The VJ us popular precisely because it's a very simple circuit and you can do A LOT to it!

[kmk108]

Ok, so it looks like I'm changing my choices. I think I'll go for a head. Do you think Epiphone Valve Junior and then doing this mod BITMO TRIO Mod Kit for Epiphone Valve Junior Amp. Or should I get a Blackheart Little Giant. I've played the VJ in person and loved it, but haven't seen any blackheart in person to try.

[TeleDog]

Both little amps are single-ended, class A amps. They're both built on a PCB board, they have a basic circuit.

When I first bought my VJ I was interested in the BitMo kits. But then I kept reading about how flexible that VJ circuit was and all that, so I decided to educate myself a bit and study that amp. lol...

I know what each resistor, each capacitor does in that circuit. I can tell you how to change each one and what it will do... lol...

The Blackheart is a nice amp too! I just haven't done any serious research on it since I don't own one.

You should also think about the attenuator they have. I'd build my own, but they offer one that's ready to install, plug and play, and you'll need that if you don't wanna wake up your neighbors when you decide to play the head overdriven late at night!

The cool thing about that is that when you overdrive the amp you'll be hitting the power tube hard as well (be careful, don't over do it if you don't wanna damage the OT). That is the real sound of an overdriven amp, not the cranked preamp and starved power section you get with some master volume controls.

If you like the VJ get the head! The combo is convenient and all but the cabinet is not nicely done (cheap crap) and the speaker is an 8 incher and that sucks!

If you wanna make your own cab or find a used one with a crappy speaker, get a Warehouse Speakers replacement! Those are seriously good speakers, real nice, and they come at a reasonable price, made in the USA too!

[kmk108]

What I was thinking was getting an Epiphone VJ (I'm winning one on ebay with a bid of $50! and it's from a shop in my town) or a blackheart (they have the treble, mid, and bass controls) and get a 1x12 avatar cab, then put a celestion v30 or greenback (need help figuring that decision out). I have found external attenuators on ebay for $50 that you plug the speaker out to and then the cab to the attenuator.

[kmk108]

Oh and recommend me a new set of tubes just in case I get the hankering to change those out. I've heard good things about jj tubes and tung sol, but I don't know exactly what model tubes would go best.
Tung-Sol 12AX7 or JJ ECC83-S / 12AX7 or JJ ECC83-S / 12AX7 Gold or JJ ECC803S / 12AX7
GIMME SUGGESTIONS! for both the 12AX7 and EL84, or let me know if the tubes in the VJ are just fine

[kmk108]

Ok, so I think i've got my list of things I'm going to be saving up and getting.
Epiphone Valve Junior Head
Some set of new tubes (If I don't like the ones that are in the VJ)
an attenuator from Weber https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/micromass.htm What I like about the attenuator is that it has separate pots for treble/mid and mid/lower so that in a way will act as my tone control
An Avatar 1x12 cab with a speaker similar to the Celestion Vintage 30
A mixer for playing my mp3's and being able to use headphones

Look's like I have a full list for my b-day and christmas

[TeleDog]

The attenuator won't exactly act as your tone control, it'll simply try to restore some of the tone lost to the attenuation process.

If you want a tone control you can wire one without any effort or you can get a BitMo tone kit, I think they have one available.

I don't like that Sovtek tube that comes with the VJ, it's not only harsh but appears to be low quality. You could replace it but try it first, it may suit your taste.

[kmk108]

if the attenuator won't shape the tone too much then I think itd be in my (and the amps) best interest to stay away from a soldering iron and get an eq pedal
has anyone done the jp1 mod where you cut the jp1 cap? I saw it on youtube and it sounded like a great improvement

[TeleDog]

That's one quick mod! You just clip the jumper and that's supposed to make the VJ sound more open. I tried that.

Honestly there was a bit of difference, but not so dramatic as the web site will have you believe. The VJ is harsh enough without making it a bit less articulate. This is a matter of personal taste, if you're gonna try the BitMo kits do it with a stock amp and THEN if you wanna try the jumper clipping you can, but be aware, you will need to use the iron if you wanna reverse that little mod.

An EQ is the perfect solution, for this amp and any other.

You will have to pull the chassis out to clip the jumper, be very careful with those capacitors, they hold LETHAL charges. You should drain the caps first and check with a multimeter before touching anything.

[kmk108]

Thanks, you've been a massive help. I'm just looking up different options, and stumbling upon the mass amounts of things you can do with this amp.

[TeleDog]

Here's what I would suggest, in your case....

Option 1: Economy option (lol):
Get the BitMo trio, Hammond Output Transformer.

Option 2:
Get a handwired board, Heyboer transformer, get a buddy who can solder to help you wire a tone control and a gain knob. This is the best way to go, also more expensive.

I got my Vjr. and wasn't too impressed with. (it has good tone but nothing extraordinary) Done a lot to make it better, and now it's a very, very cool little guy I can crank up and get good tone without having to depend on my Marshalls. To give you an idea, the amp doesn't fart anymore and the overdrive I get through it is similar to that of those boutique pedals, without the crappy compression (meaning lots or RUMBLE) lol

[kmk108]

Won a VJ on ebay for $70, going to go pick it up today. Next step, Weber attenuator, which I should be able to get in a couple weeks.

[TeleDog]

Good for you! Hope you enjoy your VJ!

What attenuator you went with? The Mini? Those are nice, some say even better than the THD's.

[kmk108]

I don't know for sure. Either the Mini or Micro. The plus in getting the mini is that if I get a bigger head, it'd still work. I've heard to get about twice the wattage as what you have, and the micro is only 15w, where the mini is 25/50w