Vintage Valve Type Amp Solo Boosts?

[longjaw]

All you guys out there with vintage style amps without an FX loop - what do you use to get a volume boost for your solos?

In my experience sticking a pedal in front of the amp to the guitar doesn't give much of a boost, it just drives the amp harder.

Thanx!

[TeleDog]

I use a little device very adequately known as Boost pedal... lol... I got the EH nano version, and it works great, one knob, does what it says it does.

[hipofutura]

Set the guitar volume at 10 and then Crank up the amp up into hi-gain. Then back off the guitar volume till you get a clean tone. When it's time to solo just wind up the guitar volume and your there.

[Big John]

Longjaw, not meaning to be a smartass, but your question is a little vague.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you want to raise the volume output of an amp that's already cranked/dimed/tubes-are-caving-in/tranformers-are-shitting-the-bed, but without changing that particular tone?

[Led Zep Fan]

Originally Posted by hipofutura

Set the guitar volume at 10 and then Crank up the amp up into hi-gain. Then back off the guitar volume till you get a clean tone. When it's time to solo just wind up the guitar volume and your there.

That's my method...

[PINKBITS]

How to Use the Controls on a Les Paul

[analogsystem]

The key is leaving headroom.

A lot of people on this board do this by rolling their guitar's volume off a little for non boosted playing.

If you want your "rhythm" tone to be the guitar at 10 and the amp at 10 then there is nowhere left to go. You might consider a 2nd amp with an ABY box. Kick on the 2nd amp for solos.
I know its a lot of extra stuff to bring out (a whole extra amp) but that is the only way to go "up" from 1 cranked amp.


What exact amp are you running? Does it have a master volume? There ways of sounding great but leaving yourself some headroom with single channel amps, you might just have to run things a little differently.

[Big John]

+1 to what analog said.

But if you're mic'ing the amp, two easy answers...(1) make the soundman do it or (2) do it for him with this...



If you're not mic'ing the rig, you could use two cabs with one cab loaded with more sensitive speakers, and use this...



These are only if you've run out of headroom with the amp.

[analogsystem]

Big John
those are both great solutions.

If we are getting WAAAAY outside of the box you consider a Whizzer like Neil Young uses or an attenuator with 2 preset output volumes.

[Liam]

Originally Posted by hipofutura

Set the guitar volume at 10 and then Crank up the amp up into hi-gain. Then back off the guitar volume till you get a clean tone. When it's time to solo just wind up the guitar volume and your there.

+1

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tone...-les-paul.html

+ 1 million. After 20 something years of playing the guitar I've figured out just how much I can do with a good valve (tube) amp and a volume and tone control (or 2). Thanks to a post on this forum that made me rethink things. It's all in there....

[brianugly]

I just use a simple Boss SD-1. Turn the drive down and the volume up, then mess with the tone knob until you get what you want. Works great with a tube amp

[JLH]

Buy a Soldano SLO

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by JLH

Buy a Soldano SLO

If only.

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by longjaw

...In my experience sticking a pedal in front of the amp to the guitar doesn't give much of a boost, it just drives the amp harder...

Ok, from this I infer that you're using a master volume amp. That is to say, it's got a control called preamp vol or distortion or gain or similar, and it's got another control called volume.

Is that right?

Assuming it is, what's happening when you put a pedal in front is that you're pushing more voltage down the front end and causing the first triode in the first preamp valve (usually a little 12AX7 thingy) to saturate. From that point on any increase in voltage in front mainly gives you more distortion with very little increase in volume.

The best way out is already mentioned, which is to set your amp up so that you get your 'boost' sound with the guitar controls at 10 /10.

Ok, assuming that you want to use a pedal for this and not twiddle knobs, there are two other solutions.

The first is to use a pedal that gives you a bigger boost. Your average distortion / overdrive pedal can give a bit of a boost. Some of the modern ones, such as those from MI in Sydney, can provide a massive boost in line level but they're the exception. In general, if you want more line level use either an EQ pedal or a treble booster. Both of the latter will give you more pure line level (i.e., more voltage in the front end) than most distortion pedals. A bigger fuckin' gun, man.

The nice thing about this approach is that it uses the existing overdrive of the amp, and just gives you more of it and a bit of level. An EQ helps you sculpt the tone, too. It's my preferred method for boosting master vol amps without an FX loop.

The second solution is to turn down the preamp / distortion / gain control. If you turn this down to the point that it's crunching rather than roaring, your first preamp valve will have a lot more headroom. This means you will get a bigger volume jump when you violate it with your pedal.

You can use these two techniques together, too. Personally, I use all of the above. More options = more colours on your pallette.

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

Ok, from this I infer that you're using a master volume amp. That is to say, it's got a control called preamp vol or distortion or gain or similar, and it's got another control called volume.

Is that right?

Assuming it is, what's happening when you put a pedal in front is that you're pushing more voltage down the front end and causing the first triode in the first preamp valve (usually a little 12AX7 thingy) to saturate. From that point on any increase in voltage in front mainly gives you more distortion with very little increase in volume.

The best way out is already mentioned, which is to set your amp up so that you get your 'boost' sound with the guitar controls at 10 /10.

Ok, assuming that you want to use a pedal for this and not twiddle knobs, there are two other solutions.

The first is to use a pedal that gives you a bigger boost. Your average distortion / overdrive pedal can give a bit of a boost. Some of the modern ones, such as those from MI in Sydney, can provide a massive boost in line level but they're the exception. In general, if you want more line level use either an EQ pedal or a treble booster. Both of the latter will give you more pure line level (i.e., more voltage in the front end) than most distortion pedals. A bigger fuckin' gun, man.

The nice thing about this approach is that it uses the existing overdrive of the amp, and just gives you more of it and a bit of level. An EQ helps you sculpt the tone, too. It's my preferred method for boosting master vol amps without an FX loop.

The second solution is to turn down the preamp / distortion / gain control. If you turn this down to the point that it's crunching rather than roaring, your first preamp valve will have a lot more headroom. This means you will get a bigger volume jump when you violate it with your pedal.

You can use these two techniques together, too. Personally, I use all of the above. More options = more colours on your pallette.

[longjaw]

Splattle101 & analogsystem - thanks for that informative answers, some good food for thought there.

Pinkbits - I find having my guitar volume on max gives me a great distorted rythm tone, when I turn it down the tone through the amp isn't there.

I'm using a first generation Valvepower 18 watt head similar to this but without the rotary power switch - 18 Watt Cage Amp by ValvePower of London

[longjaw]

Originally Posted by Big John

Longjaw, not meaning to be a smartass, but your question is a little vague.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you want to raise the volume output of an amp that's already cranked/dimed/tubes-are-caving-in/tranformers-are-shitting-the-bed, but without changing that particular tone?

That's right Big John!

[Big John]

Just about every possible answer has been given....

-preamp gain rollback
-guitar volume rollback
-pedals into the front
-a soundman that's awake
-switch mic signal between 2 channels on the mixer
-switch between cabs of different sensitivity specs
-attenuator with switchable levels

These are about all you can do, except for modifying the amp.

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by longjaw

Splattle101 & analogsystem - thanks for that informative answers, some good food for thought there.

Pinkbits - I find having my guitar volume on max gives me a great distorted rythm tone, when I turn it down the tone through the amp isn't there.

I'm using a first generation Valvepower 18 watt head similar to this but without the rotary power switch - 18 Watt Cage Amp by ValvePower of London

You at my post for what reason exactly

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by longjaw

....I'm using a first generation Valvepower 18 watt head similar to this but without the rotary power switch - 18 Watt Cage Amp by ValvePower of London

Ok, that looks like a non-master amp to me. As in, a non-master vol amp with some sort of power attenuation via that rotary 'power' switch.

That's a different animal then.

In order to give you some intelligent suggestions we need to know how you're running it. In particular:
* what are the volume and power settings you have when you find that a pedal just mushes the front end?
* How loud is it when it does this? (e.g., is it loud enough to be playing with a drummer, or bedroom vol?)
* What type of cab are you using, and what kind of speakers are loaded in it?
* What kind of guitar are you playing?
* Which types of pedal have you tried, and with what settings?

I mean, I know this is a gear oriented forum, but there might be some rather simple and cheap solutions to your problem without resorting to expensive switching devices or building / buying new speaker cabinets.

[axepilot]

My method with the Germino is to set the amp where I like it for dimed out guitar volume lead work and roll back the guitar's volume / vary the pick attack to ride the rhythm picking. It works well for what I do........but not all amps are created equal.

If your amp doesn't repond well to volume changes on the guitar, maybe a clean boost pedal will help it when you need lead smash.

[analogsystem]

For my non master head I set it just barely breaking up with lots of headroom still available (usually about 4 or 5). Its already loud as shit, but there is "somewhere to go" volume and overdrive wise.

Then I set a tubescreamer (or boutique low gain OD of your choice) so that there is not much volume bump, but a slight bit of drive.

Then I have a clean boost turned up ALL THE WAY.

This give me 3 levels:
1. No pedals on for mellow quiet clean playing (almost never)
2. Tubescreamer on for my general playing / touch responsive OD to clean(ish) rhythm. I rarely turn this off.
3. Clean boost on for solos / full saturation

I always have my guitars volume at 10

This setup has worked with many non master amps I've used.

[longjaw]

Originally Posted by PINKBITS

You at my post for what reason exactly

How to Use the Controls on a Les Paul comment!

AnalogSystem - Thanks for the that, will probably have a bash at that!

Thanks for everyone else for all your help - much appreciated.

Peace brothers!

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by PINKBITS
You at my post for what reason exactly

Originally Posted by longjaw

How to Use the Controls on a Les Paul comment!

Have a look at the link that Pinky put in that post.

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

Have a look at the link that Pinky put in that post.

Yep, check out the link mate

[longjaw]

Ooops! I thought you were taking the p!$$ PINKBITS - my apologies

[PINKBITS]

Originally Posted by longjaw

Ooops! I thought you were taking the p!$$ PINKBITS - my apologies

Read first. Post second. All good mate