Experimenting with my Traynor YCV20WR

[Hexa]

Hi Guys!

My YCV20WR originally came with 2x 6BQ5/EL84 and 3x 12ax7 but Traynor claims in the Owner's Manual that the type of tubes can easily be changed without "distressing" the amp. My tubes need to be changed and I'm tempted to try to replace the EL84's (currently Sovtek) with EL34s to experiment with a different sound.

Has anyone tried something like that on their Traynor (or any amps with similar auto-biasing/balancing/matching). Is there anything I should be careful about?

Thanks for your input!

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by Hexa

Hi Guys!

My YCV20WR originally came with 2x 6BQ5/EL84 and 3x 12ax7 but Traynor claims in the Owner's Manual that the type of tubes can easily be changed without "distressing" the amp. My tubes need to be changed and I'm tempted to try to replace the EL84's (currently Sovtek) with EL34s to experiment with a different sound.

Has anyone tried something like that on their Traynor (or any amps with similar auto-biasing/balancing/matching). Is there anything I should be careful about?

Thanks for your input!

hey hexa

just passin' by cuz i noticed "Traynor" in the title of the thread which is rarely see

i'm gettin' a YCV20WR myself and i was just wondering how's it's been treatin' ya.. was it a worthy purchase?



i understand that the tubes on this particular amp aren't the best and that LOTS of people have it re-tubed, but with the original tubes in (the Sovteks)' how "ok" do they fair?

dang it! i wish mine would get in already

[coldsteal2]

JJ's are the best for EL84s

[lp59aholicDon]

El84's and EL 34's cant be interchanged, its a totally different tube socket the EL 84 uses a small 9 pin similar to pre amp tubes where EL 34's use a large , similar to 6L6, KT66. 6V6, 7025's This would also include changing your power transformer and a complete re bias IT could be done but with a good competent tech, might cost you as much as a small complete amp kit

[coldsteal2]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

El84's and EL 34's cant be interchanged, its a totally different tube socket the EL 84 uses a small 9 pin similar to pre amp tubes where EL 34's use a large , similar to 6L6, KT66. 6V6, 7025's This would also include changing your power transformer and a complete re bias IT could be done but with a good competent tech, might cost you as much as a small complete amp kit

Its like comparing a 7.62 to a 50cal round

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by coldsteal2

Its like comparing a 7.62 to a 50cal round

More like a 5.56 to a .50 Cal, LOL

[coldsteal2]

that'll work!

[Hexa]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

El84's and EL 34's cant be interchanged, its a totally different tube socket ...

That's what I though. Thanks for the confirmation... I'll stick to EL84's...

Originally Posted by coldsteal2

JJ's are the best for EL84s

...and as suggested by coldsteal, I have just ordered JJ's to replace my Sovtek. I've only played this amp with Sovtek in it but I heard a lot of good comments about the JJ's.

[Hexa]

Originally Posted by MIDNIGHT

hey hexa

just passin' by cuz i noticed "Traynor" in the title of the thread which is rarely see

i'm gettin' a YCV20WR myself and i was just wondering how's it's been treatin' ya.. was it a worthy purchase?



i understand that the tubes on this particular amp aren't the best and that LOTS of people have it re-tubed, but with the original tubes in (the Sovteks)' how "ok" do they fair?

dang it! i wish mine would get in already

I absolutely love this amp. It's a purchase I cannot regret. The Sovtek tubes are very good for clean and crunch but are not as good when you push the distortion.

The clean channel is great and I find it easy to play with the sweet spot. The sound will just start to break up nicely if I play harder and clean-up if I just play smoother (gain at 5-6). The lead channel is also very good with moderate amounts of gain. With this set-up, you get a very good crunch tone and the "boost" option is great when it's time for your solo. With more gain, the distortion become fairly harsh and fuzz-like. On the other hand, it looks like this is mainly due to the original Sovtek tubes. I have also read on different forums that re-tubing with JJ's improves the sound significantly. As I mentioned in a previous reply, I have just ordered new JJ tubes to hear this for myself.

Pros:
- Great clean sound
- Great crunch
- A lot of options for the price: 2 channels (clean, Lead), foot switch included, Accutronics spring reverb, standby switch, headphone jack, FX loop send-receive; DI output; bass-mid-treble eq

Cons:
- Harsh at higher distortion level when using the stock Sovtek tubes. I will soon change the tubes to JJ's so this should improve.
- Reverb is okay at moderate levels (I'm not a big spring reverb fan)

Obviously this amp is "only" 15 watts but I find it loud enough for any practice environment and for smaller gigs (I don't really gig so it's not a problem for me)

Have fun!

[coldsteal2]

I find just a tiny bit of reverb is great, but when you
turn it up too much you loose gain and low end. But just a little
reverb sounds great.

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by coldsteal2

I find just a tiny bit of reverb is great, but when you
turn it up too much you loose gain and low end. But just a little
reverb sounds great.

Some verb's can go to trash real fast, I had a Seymour Duncan 84-40 , sounded great without verb, but in the dirty channel past 4, clean channel past 5 , begain to sound like buried in a garbage can several garage's away

[coldsteal2]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Some verb's can go to trash real fast, I had a Seymour Duncan 84-40 , sounded great without verb, but in the dirty channel past 4, clean channel past 5 , begain to sound like buried in a garbage can several garage's away

Yea there is a problem once you go dirty with
reverb unless you are using a digital, which seems to hang
in there for it.

Spring reverb sounds great on clean but sucks
cranked.

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by Hexa

I absolutely love this amp. It's a purchase I cannot regret. The Sovtek tubes are very good for clean and crunch but are not as good when you push the distortion.

The clean channel is great and I find it easy to play with the sweet spot. The sound will just start to break up nicely if I play harder and clean-up if I just play smoother (gain at 5-6). The lead channel is also very good with moderate amounts of gain. With this set-up, you get a very good crunch tone and the "boost" option is great when it's time for your solo. With more gain, the distortion become fairly harsh and fuzz-like. On the other hand, it looks like this is mainly due to the original Sovtek tubes. I have also read on different forums that re-tubing with JJ's improves the sound significantly. As I mentioned in a previous reply, I have just ordered new JJ tubes to hear this for myself.

Pros:
- Great clean sound
- Great crunch
- A lot of options for the price: 2 channels (clean, Lead), foot switch included, Accutronics spring reverb, standby switch, headphone jack, FX loop send-receive; DI output; bass-mid-treble eq

Cons:
- Harsh at higher distortion level when using the stock Sovtek tubes. I will soon change the tubes to JJ's so this should improve.
- Reverb is okay at moderate levels (I'm not a big spring reverb fan)

Obviously this amp is "only" 15 watts but I find it loud enough for any practice environment and for smaller gigs (I don't really gig so it's not a problem for me)

Have fun!

awesome to hear

thing is, i really don't have a base of comparison since this will be my 1st tube amp so i'm pretty sure i'll be happy even with the sovteks

but retubing is definitely a possibility in the future

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by coldsteal2

Yea there is a problem once you go dirty with
reverb unless you are using a digital, which seems to hang
in there for it.

Spring reverb sounds great on clean but sucks
cranked.

Brother CS, Here lies the problem , of where is the verb coming into the signal chain. Post Pre Amp, and pre Power amp, but your power amp has to be running pretty clean If everythign before the reverb is dirty or hard drivin, no problems, but if your power amp tubes are getting dirtier or more over driven than pre amp, then the tone is gonna suffer and gert muddy, If ya want and need verb and your amp is just too hard driven all the way round, best to either mic it and run it thru the board via line out

[overdriver]

Originally Posted by MIDNIGHT

awesome to hear

thing is, i really don't have a base of comparison since this will be my 1st tube amp so i'm pretty sure i'll be happy even with the sovteks

but retubing is definitely a possibility in the future

I found the stock OK you could always fool around with the pre amp tubes first. I like, of the current new production tubes , the EH12ax7 and tungsol 12ax7, If its sounds good to you stock leave it and play them get you monies worth out of them. And when you want to or need to get a new set, +1 with CS on the JJ EL84s and I will add I do not like the JJ 12ax7. The EH or Tungsol IMO are nicer. get a balanced one for the phase inverter or not seems everyone does say to but Traynor as well as Fender do not use balanced PIs Vacuum tubes @ thetubestore. New and NOS electron tubes for any amplifier. In Ontario

Also changing the pre amp tubes is a bit of a pain , you have to remove the back pannel and then a cover inside , best to set the amp on its head to change pre amp tubes , not much room to pull out and put in 2 of them . and the PI or splitter as they call it, is not the one closest to the power tubes as in Fenders . it is marked in the block diagram, its the one furthest away from the power tubes.

IMO its good that you do not care for spring reverb cause Traynors spring reverb SUCKS IMO

[feloniuspunk]

I own a Traynor YCV20WR, have for several years. I like the amp. I don't use the onboard reverb anyway, I use a delay pedal for that effect. If you really want this amp to sizzle you should retube all the preamp tubes with gold pin preamp tubes from Eurotubes.com. They make a huge difference.

Also, the other best improvement for this little amp is to swap speakers. The stock speaker is crap. You can put in either a Tone Tubby Hemp Alnico 12" or a new Celestion Gold. Both are rather expensive, but how much is your tone worth?

The Traynor YCV20WR is an okay amp, okay sounding and okay looking. But in that power range of tube amps I think I prefer a Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue. It has 22 watts instead of 15 watts and has both high and low impedance inputs whereas the Traynor only has one input. If you play both single coils and humbuckers it's nice to have the input impedance options.

[jco.1]

I've got one and love it, once the Sovteks were taken out. This amp was awful sounding with them installed, and I only bought the amp after reading dozens of glowing reviews of the amp after a complete tube change. I started with a matched pair of JJEL84's, and a couple of new production JJ and one new production Mullard in V1-3, respectively. The overall tone improved 1000 percent, and the formerly metallic reverb sounded a lot better too (actually usable beyond 1). I kept on reading supposed "tone-snob" comments about NOS and older production tubes, and scoured ebay for a while and scored a few really nice 12AX7's. Unfortuantely the "snobs" are right; another huge difference. I'm no electrician, but I think the fact that I had some decent tubes in the V3 (phase inverter) socket has a lot to do with the improved reverb quality.

I agree that the tubes are somewhat of a pain to get to, but for the overall cost of this amp (especially used) compared to the tones you can get with good tubes in it, the deal is a no-brainer if you're looking for a 15W 1X12. I would recommend disconnecting the speaker, remove the back panel, take the chassis out by removing 4 top screws in the cabinet, and there is one small sheet metal panel to remove from there. The whole process only takes about 10-15 minutes, tops. It just isn't plug and play like a Fender or Peavey.

[Hexa]

Originally Posted by jco.1

... Unfortuantely the "snobs" are right; another huge difference. I'm no electrician, but I think the fact that I had some decent tubes in the V3 (phase inverter) socket has a lot to do with the improved reverb quality.

Apparently, a lot of harshness comes from the fact that the phase inverter tends to saturate with a "regular" 12AX7 in V3. It's good when this comes from your preamp but not when the phase inverter adds distortion. I'll wait until my current set of JJ's 12AX7 show at least some sigh of wear but I'm probably going to try 5751's (Military grade 12AX7) or maybe a 12AU7. I read that because the 12AU7 can handle more current that the 12AX7, the transfer of the signal from the preamp to the power section is smother and therefore helps with the reverb quality.

I don't know about you but isn't it great that we can significantly alter the tone by swapping a few tubes I can understand why it's a never ending quest for a lot of tube amp freaks.

[jco.1]

I'm agree; I think you'll get a much cleaner tone with the tubes you mentioned, on both channels. If you plan on getting distortion/gain from a pedal, I think you'll be in good shape.