120 watt tube amps VS.18 watt tube amps for pure rock n roll

[Standard 64]

To achieve that creamy greasy tone you get from tube amps for practical use that is not ear bleeding.Is it better to get a real high wattage(120) tube amp and play them with the volume knob on lets say 3-6 or buy a 18 watt amp and play it with the volume knob on lets say 7-9.Please dont talk about:attenuator,master volume,volume pedal or pulling tubes.Thanks.

[Ekoms]

if its a non master volume amp, you'd never be able to get crunch out of the 120 watter without deafening yourself. 18 tube watts is usually enough for most any situation anyhow.

Most big venues will mic you no matter your amp, and sometimes they make you turn it down

[randygt]

...i'd have to say the 18 watter....

[Bordeaux]

Yeah I'd say get a lower wattage tube amp and crank it up. I have a Crate V32 Palomino 2X12 30W and it's pretty much useless at my house. My wife will give me the evil eye if I even look at it when she's home.

A tube amp just ain't gonna have the same great sound unless it's turned up. I'm actually looking to sell my Crate V32 and get something with much less wattage like the Blackstar HT-5. It's 5 watts but man does it sound great! I do occationally play shows but we always use a PA so no worries.

I'm fixing to leave work here in a second and go buy my son a Epi Valve Jr combo stack. Of course the amp is actually for me but I gotta tell my wife something.

Can't wait to get it home and play!

BTW- If you do decide you need alot of wattage, I would suggest a attinuator (SP?). This way, you can crank the volume but then dial it back. They are kinda expensive though from what I've been told.

[dwagar]

let the power tubes get cooking, buy something you can crank up.

[Splattle101]

Is this a trick question? Small amp, for sure. Crank it, get the tone you want, and let the sound man worry about filling the room.

[J.LaGrassa]

I just picked up a Bugera 333XL rated at 120W and actually prefer the high head room you can get from higher wattage amp, I've been using low power 1x12 combos for a few years and they are nice but I dont really care for power tube distortion. The 333XL has an excellent master volume so the crunch and lead channels sound real full even at lower volumes.

[Les is paul]

3-6 or buy a 18 watt amp and play it with the volume knob on lets say 7-9.[/QUOTE]

I'd say you answered your own question

Tubes need to be hot for tone, harder you push the better it gets and having a cold 120 kept at 3 o'clock is not showing its full potential.

[Standard 64]

[QUOTE=J.LaGrassa;498999]I just picked up a Bugera 333XL rated at 120W and actually prefer the high head room you can get from higher wattage amp, I've been using low power 1x12 combos for a few years and they are nice but I dont really care for power tube distortion. The 333XL has an excellent master volume so the crunch and lead channels sound real full even at lower volumes.[/QUOTE
Does the crunch and lead channel on a bugera at low volume equal to a 18 watt at high volume?

[Big John]

Originally Posted by Standard 64

...practical use that is not ear bleeding...

Go with less watts. I use a little Mesa Express for rehearsal, and at the last gig. Worked just fine. I tried using the SigX (120w) at rehearsal a few times. It was fun for me but painful for everybody else.

[JW123]

Ive gone from a Sunn Model T 150 watt tube, to a Mesa Triple Rectifier 150 watt tube, to a Roadster Combo 100 watt tube, down to a Mesa Subway Rocket 20 watt tube amp over the last 20 years. New Years Eve our band was playing a pretty large room so I sound tested all my amps to figure out what to take, I felt the Subway smoked all my big amps tonewise and dynamic wise.

Im actually getting ready to go one step further and start using a POD PRO straight into our mixing board. We have a great pa system so Im going to try this for some smaller gigs coming up. If it works like I think it will, I may be ampless in the future.

The reality for me is that what the crowd hears is all that matters. Even my small amp is so loud that our soundman is always pulling me back in the mix. When I walk out with my wireless it gets thin after about 30 feet from the stage. With my preamp Im hoping to fill the room better. I might not have the feel I like onstage but I think the sound for the audience will make up for that and the fact that our overall sound will not be dependent on how loud Im playing, but what the room requires.

SO to answer the question from a macho guitar slinging standpoint there is nothing like a high wattage tube amp, but from your audience standpoint, unless you are playing the heaviest of metal, a big amp is just a waste of horsepower.

With all the smaller amps available for the price of one large stack you could afford 3 or 4smaller 20 watt amps and have a bigger tone selection.

Just my 2 cents!

Ive never lost a gig because I was too quiet, but I burned a lot of bridges by being too loud.

[randygt]

..i used a pod pro direct to p.a. lots...never had a problem, no one in the crowd had a clue. more than i care to say i got compliments on the tone, go figure

[eaglewolf]

I have a Mesa Roadster 100W head, and as much as I like the tonal capabilities of that amp, it sucks for around the house. It needs to be cranked to get that tone. I'm looking at the Blackstar HT-5 and Egnator Rebel 20 head (adjustable from 1 to 20 watts) as a decent amp for when the wife is home.

In other words, I agree with the above statements. Get the lower wattage amp if you don't need the high volume. There are a lot of really nice tube amps at 15 watts or less that will serve you well.

David

[Joeydego]

low watt= better tone at normal volume, high watts = more headroom but great tone for madison square garden.

[rumbling_groover]

18 watts is still pretty loud. I've gigged with a 7 watt amp and had some great fun.

[Bordeaux]

Originally Posted by randygt

..i used a pod pro direct to p.a. lots...never had a problem, no one in the crowd had a clue. more than i care to say i got compliments on the tone, go figure

I think tone still has alot more to do with the player behind the guitar than equipment. If you have skill, then you could play through a string and a cup and get people's attention. Tiger Woods could take a set of Cougar starter golf clubs from Target and beat anyone on the planet with their brand new Taylor Mades.

I think that's why I'm still seraching for the perfect tone, I really need to practice more instead of amp hunting.

[Stowburst]

I did a sound test a few months back with:

15w Fender pro Jr
30w Marshall Bluesbreaker
80w Fender Twin reverb

All amps were at the back of the studio and all of them were on 10 on the volume.. 3 guitarists playing the same chords at the same time. it was very loud but not that much in it in terms of volume.. really. The Jr had the most breakup but had the smallest sound.

The main difference was the quatity of the sound as it came out the amp, how it travelled round the room etc, the Jr had a small sound and mushy (in a good way) becasue it topped out at 15w, the Marshall sounded pure rock and roll with a lot of grunt but compressed too much so It lost its brightness and dropped in volume and the Twin was breaking up nice but not distorting too much.. kepping a decent tone.

Those 15w Jrs are totally underated as amps! Great sound but too quiet for gigs unless you mic it up.

[snakestretcher]

I downsized from an Pro Tube ProReverb to an Orange Tiny Terror and couldn't be happier-especially about the weight loss...
Also the average pub/bar venue here in England has much smaller rooms than typical US venues so 15 watts is easily adequate. Prior to the Fender I used a Cornford Hurricane rated at 20 watts and I never used it flat out-and that was with a very noisy drummer, unmic'd.

So, yes, go small watts for best tone where everything is working hard and to its fullest tone potential.

[HellfireLP]

Originally Posted by Big John

Go with less watts. I use a little Mesa Express for rehearsal, and at the last gig. Worked just fine. I tried using the SigX (120w) at rehearsal a few times. It was fun for me but painful for everybody else.

??? sigx is 100 watts, and it has a 40 watt setting?

[HellfireLP]

Originally Posted by Standard 64

To achieve that creamy greasy tone you get from tube amps for practical use that is not ear bleeding.Is it better to get a real high wattage(120) tube amp and play them with the volume knob on lets say 3-6 or buy a 18 watt amp and play it with the volume knob on lets say 7-9.Please dont talk about:attenuator,master volume,volume pedal or pulling tubes.Thanks.

how "loud" do you need to be, wattage has alot to do with clean headroom, and dynamics....50watt vs. 100 watt isnt much different from a "loud" perspective, but the will feel very different....what kind of cab are you using? will you need to go clean ever...are you using a PA to back you up? are you even playing out? i myself favor 100+ watt amps...but thats just me, but i do own a Sigx, and i love keep the 2 drive channels at 40 watts....

[axepilot]

It's all about where the amp starts to break up / you get the driven sound you seek vs volume levels. The big non master amps tend to get brutal there. Most venues frown on brutal stage volume these days. Mic the 18 watter and let the PA do the heavy lifting.

You might be surprised at just how loud a good 18 watt amp can get.............

[phastestgunn]

I used to use a 30 watt 2x12 SS Marshall back in the day in pretty good sized clubs, and it was plenty loud. I never had to turn it up all the way and it wasn't mic'd. I didn't have to turn it up.....

but I did anyway

[hipofutura]

I don't think there's much debate. If you're looking for great tone, tube amp, and home use you have to go with very low wattage. An 18 watt tube amp is WAY too much power for home use. I can't begin to crank up my 14 Watt Phaez at home. It's just too uncomfortable. If you really want the full tube tone then I'd suggest something like a Fender Vibro Champ clone. My 7 watt Ceriatone BF VC with 2x10 Webers is a great home amp. To get the full tube effect you have to saturate the power tubes. Do that at home with an 18 watt amp and your ears will hurt.

[TeleDog]

I got an 18W, I play that on 1 and it's already loud. Play it at 2 and it's pretty loud. You wanna play it at 7 or 9? Sure you can, in some club or at rehearsal, but sure as hell you won't be able to get away with it at home without some serious problem.

Worst part? You can almost feel the amp begging to be cranked up, and you can't... You wanna go through that? Go for it.

[LPV]

Depends on the amp. My Phaez sounds rewarding at 25% too. Not as good as 2/3 up but good low end and not cheesy. The numbers mean nothing. 25 years ago I had a marshall 2204 that was as loud 1/3 the way up as full. No amp/volume pot responds the same.

[phastestgunn]

Teledog "Worst part? You can almost feel the amp begging to be cranked up, and you can't... You wanna go through that? Go for it. "

I know that feeling

[SlyStrat]

I compromise with a Marshall JTM45 RI. Plus I have it set up as a 1x12 combo.
Another nice sounding amp is the 20w Marshall 2061X.

[TeleDog]

It can be frustrating, I know that for a fact. My JCM 900 sits there in storage, can't use it here. The 18W is a tone machine when cranked, I went with a circuit with a MV but it's still not the same as a wide open amp.

That's why I decided to mod the VJ. Glad I did.

[River]

I would go with something below even 18 watts. Getting some sub-20 watt amps to break up as I like has been known to maim small children and animals.