Investing in a LEGIT amp... Need adivce

[brettk7]

Me and my Mom were talking about my band and some of the situations that I have been in due to my lack of legit gear (equipment failures, etc).

But, I've come to the conclusion that to get a REAL amp... A real gig/tour worthy amp you gotta drop some real money. Which sucks, but it's getting to the point where not having the right gear is beginning to hold me back. Its to the point where everybody in my band has pro-quality gear and I don't. Believe it or not, when the drums come on, it matters. I hate not sounding as good as I could and believe it or not... Almost every kid from every band is playing some unnecessarily expensive, pro-level rig... And then my band comes on, the almost-a-working-band and I am on a shit amp. It's embarrassing to me, I feel like I have a toy amp and everybody has the real deal. I know how ridiculous that sounds... But, none of you can tell me that it is wrong to think that. We're ALL tone-freaks here and you'd all be as concerned as me if you were me!

I wouldn't ever expect to just be given some piece of high-dollar gear from some of my parents as some of my friends have, but I don't have the means to do it on my own. I wouldn't even dream of asking my parents for anything that expensive. So basically what Mom and I decided would probably be best is to finance or take out a loan on what I need. So I'm not stuck being responsible for borrowed gear and I'm not putting my band that I have built from nothing on a stand-still.

It just seems like an easy solution to a huge dilemma, it could be kinda drastic but I know I'm not the only who has probably done something like this. Basically what I am looking to do is spend no more (well... give or take a small amount) than $3,000 on the head/cab/amp itself. I will probably take out a little bit more to get road-cases for them as well.

I've been fighting with myself about this for quite some time. On one hand, I feel as if this is like, a business loan.. Like its necessary for me to sound the best that I can and to stay on top of my game. On the other I feel like maybe its a bit extreme, I'm not a full-time touring band... But, then again who says I will ever get that opportunity with gear that isn't the industry standard?

If I do this... I want something timeless, reliable, PHENOMENAL sounding... Something I will play, love and keep with me for the rest of my life. I just feel like if I buy something that isn't what I want I will just try and sell it to get what I really wanted three months later. I pretty much know what I have in mind and what it will/could cost, and its within my limits.. Its just a lot to swallow!


What to do guys? Finance and live the dream while I'm young and can... Or think of a more practical solution? This will be the biggest purchase I ever made (besides my car!). I'm sure I am not gonna get too many no's from you guys, but I would like to hear the opinions of some guys who have probably been there and done it before.

[diceman]

I wouldn't suggest a $3k amp to accompany your Epi - I'd rather spend $1500 on a good half stack (or even $1000 on a nice tube combo) and invest the rest on the guitar side - but thats just me. I'd never dog on an Epi, but I don't see the sense in having an amp which is worth 4-5x what your guitar is.

I've got my big ol' Laney full stack, but I honestly prefer to practice and gig with my Peavey Classic 30 - it puts out plenty of noise and sounds great - and if it isn't needed, even a half stack is a pain in the ass to drag around. I've got $400 shipped invested in my C30 and love it to death.

Have you thought about a Dr. Z amp for $1.5k and an Elitist or used Gibson Standard - something along that route? Maybe a used R8 for $2.3-2.5k and a Fender or Peavey tube combo for the other $5-700? Those would be the better route to go in my opinion.

[brettk7]

I hear you man, and I understand where your coming from... But honestly, my Epiphone is so far from stock. NOTHING on it is stock anymore. I have SUPER nice pick-ups/electronics, locking tuners, even the switch is aftermarket... You'd have to hear it to understand!

Some people may look at that and go "What!? Epiphone through an _____?" But, I love that guitar. I could have a decked-out Gibson, Fender, whatever... And I would still come back to that guitar. It's my main guitar and I love it. Although, I do plan on getting another Telecaster/G&L in the future, or maybe a Jazzmaster.. So it isn't like that is gonna be my only axe forever.

I'd also like to point-out that I have thought about the Dr.Z's, Bad Cats, etc... Those amps are sick and all, but I have been lusting after an Orange since day 1 of me playing guitar. Maybe even an Orange combo, but I have my heart set on an Orange rig.


As a side-note... I rarely play my Epi LP Special, that never leaves the house or sees ANY band duty what-so-ever haha.

[Stowburst]

Originally Posted by brettk7

What to do guys? Finance and live the dream while I'm young and can... Or think of a more practical solution? This will be the biggest purchase I ever made (besides my car!). I'm sure I am not gonna get too many no's from you guys, but I would like to hear the opinions of some guys who have probably been there and done it before.

I have been there and done it so here is my thoughts:

You dont need 3k to get a REAL amp.. if you look around you can find killer amps for 1k if not cheeper 2nd hand. If I had 3k to spend I would not buy brand new.

I have had loans (still paying one off for my R9) to buy band stuff and do I regret it..? NO WAY.. but I will say this, being in debt is not cool and If there is a way of selling bits or saving up I would recomend that.

I always would say live the dream, why not..

[b-squared]

Get your money, put it in the bank, and then start looking. As already stated, you can get a good Orange amp used for much less than what a new one goes for.

$3K will get you a Landry half-stack, though.

BB

[FennRx]

i guess i'll be the party pooper here. i think it's pretty foolish to finance a$3000 amp or a guitar, especially at your age. you wouldn't believe the people i went to college with who ruined their credit and potentially their lives doing things like this...these people will forever have trouble buying cars, houses, etc because they had to have stuff. if your parents lend you the money that's great (mine did to help me get my Studio all those years ago).

the other issue is, why do you need a $3000 amp? lots of good amps for under $1000. go used and your option really open up. Buying a full stack with a 100w head is kinda silly. And if you can't pay for it, it is really silly. Buy a combo amp. I realize that Fender may not be the sound you're looking for, but as an example- a 40w HRD is so damn loud at Volume 5 and costs about $700 new....and if you played a bigger venue, you would mic the amp anyways.

[UKyank]

My advice: follow your heart, but think with your head....Only borrow as much as you can pay back, don't let this decision ruin your future, but don't let it ruin the moment for you now either. Very Zen like if I do say so. Buy a used Marshall 50 watt tube amp combo. Dependable, has the sound and volume you need and is in my opinion easier to transport than a 1/2 stack. Should be able to find one under 1K. As far as the finance goes I would suggest trying to get the loan for as long a period as possible so you can afford the payments, but then pay as much as you can each month to pay for it ASAP.

[Bizarro]

You can get a used JCM 800 for well under $1000.00. You really do not need any more power than that and the sound will be heavenly. You have to use your Brain to seperate "wants" from "needs". What you "need" is a decent and reliable Tube amp which you can get for under $1000.00. What you "want" is irrelevant at this time in your life. With the state of the economy as it is right now and likely to get far worse, I would recommend borrowing less and saving more.

[996ttcab]

The amp is where you get your sound so I can agree with you on keeping your guitar and spending your dough on just an amp if you are satisfied with the way in which your guitar plays. Don't buy a JCM 800 if you are willing to spend more for awesome sound. I have an 800 and a Boutique head above the $ 3000 range and there is no comparison. My head could be had in the used market for much less than your budget if you could ever find one used. I think for $ 3,000, you could find a 50 watt amp and head combination that would not leave you wanting. A JCM 800, in my opinion, would leave you wanting down the road, especially if you play through other stuff.

No one can really advise you on an amp though unless we know what sound, style, genre and etc.

[LPV]

Originally Posted by brettk7

What to do guys? Finance and live the dream while I'm young and can... Or think of a more practical solution?

Hi I will give you the same advice I would give to my own son,

"WHAT ??? Are you crazy ??? Go to your room !"

Seriously, dude, you are way to young to know want you want tone wise yet. Get a good midrange tube amp for $1000 - $1500 and pump it for all the tone you can. Unless you actually have a revenue from music that can support a debt, forget it.

[C Squared]

Check out Carvin for the Legacy or V3 half stacks, Peavey has several good options, and there is always Marshall. But you should be able to get a good half stack for $2k or less if you can find a good one used. with the economy in the tank a lot of good buys out there on stuff thats almost new.

[996ttcab]

Originally Posted by LPV

Hi I will give you the same advice I would give to my own son,

"WHAT ??? Are you crazy ??? Go to your room !"

Seriously, dude, you are way to young to know want you want tone wise yet. Get a good midrange tube amp for $1000 - $1500 and pump it for all the tone you can. Unless you actually have a revenue from music that can support a debt, forget it.

And how much equipment did you have at his age? Honestly. You guys also do not hesitate to recommend someone spending that much on a guitar and the amp is actually more integral to your sound.

Heck, I had three full stacks at 17, but in the 80s excess was the rage. Now I would rather have a simple smaller box with better sound plus mic'ing today is so much better. If the guy is in a band and wanting to live his dream, every little bit or small advantage helps. If the amp makes him sound better and feel better about his playing, the extra $ 1,000 or so is well worth it.

You also cannot generalize that kids do not know enough about tone and sound to know what they want. I know 14 and 16 year old guitarist that can toast most old dudes who really do not have a clue as to what they are spending their money on.

[dwagar]

Originally Posted by 996ttcab

No one can really advise you on an amp though unless we know what sound, style, genre and etc.

+1

But I will say while thinking about a $3K amp is cool and all, it isn't practical for you right now.
How much are you earning in the band right now, not what you think you might make in the future, but right now? And are you willing to spend all of it on payments?

As others have said above, you can find a good tube combo, used, for about a grand. There is no need to spend more than that. You can upgrade later when you're making more money.

If you're looking for crunch and overdrive, I'm going to agree with the guys above that say get an old JCM800 50 watt combo. Get the single channel (based on 2204) though, all JCM800s are not created equal. Stick an attenuator on it, and crank it up. A bit of heaven for around a grand.

[Big John]

When you're happy with your tone, you play better, and that holds true for anyone here or on any other message board. If you truly in your heart want to own an Orange rig, then get off your ass and go get one. It's that simple.

[Kickstand]

You could get a used bogner shiva and a marshall cab for around $2000. For around a grand a marshall dsl 50 or 100 and a 4x12 cab. You could have a whole lot of cool stuff at my house for $2000. A marshall dsl with the right tubes and biased correctly will give you a whole lot of good tone for the dough. Works for Jeff Beck. Also, is a good clean tone important to you or are you mainly concerned with a good overdrive sound. Do you have the need for effects? Call me or mail me anytime Brett and I can give you some good solid suggestions and maybe point you towards some guys in the area that could hook you up with a killer rig for much less than $3000. Something important to remember is that no matter how much you spend it will still sound like you. A rig that sounds good to you will inspire you to stretch and play better when you're on stage. If it sounds good to you it doesn't matter if it's $500 or $5000. I remember playing a good sized room in St.Louis with a diezel vh4 and a bogner cab and thinking in the middle of the set that my tone wasn't that much better than the week before when I was using a Peavey JSX. It was better but probably not better than the $3000 difference in cost. I play big rooms constantly in town and have a lot of friends in very popular bands in the area and most of the guys that have really good tone have it because they really know how to get the most out of their gear. The guys that I know that have crazy expensive gear usually leave it at home and bring out their marshalls, Peaveys, randalls, etc. I heard a randall rm rig the other week that sounded phenomenal through the pa. He's a pal of mine and works at a local shop. He carries marshall, randall, Hughes & Kettner, and they even have a Landry there. He can hook you up with a killer rig at a good price. Let me know if you want me to put you in touch with him. Good luck!

[Stowburst]

Originally Posted by big john

when you're happy with your tone, you play better, and that holds true for anyone here or on any other message board. If you truly in your heart want to own an orange rig, then get off your ass and go get one. It's that simple.

+1

[996ttcab]

On the Orange recommendation, I would be cautious depending on style of music. I love Orange amps, but really do not believe either the Rockerverb or the Rocker has enough gain or sounds as good as some of the high gain amps out there for heavy high gain stuff including Metallica. Now if you play Zep stuff all the time, then the sound is perfect.

Kickstand, have you tried the Herbert. I was really torn between a VH4 and my Triamp and ended up with the Triamp. I played a VH4 through my Orange PPC and it was not as nice as my Triamp. Recently, I heard the VH4 through a rear loaded Diezel cabinet and whoa. Maybe the best I have ever heard at high gain.

Also, if you buy used and buy wisely, you can always get most if not all of your money back and it will teach you responsibility at younger age if you actually have to pay your parents back or pay it off.

[GibsonSlash]

If you're in Canada, you could get it even lesser.
Open your search to earlier JCM800, it's called JMP.

Originally Posted by Bizarro

You can get a used JCM 800 for well under $1000.00.

[Kickstand]

Originally Posted by 996ttcab

On the Orange recommendation, I would be cautious depending on style of music. I love Orange amps, but really do not believe either the Rockerverb or the Rocker has enough gain or sounds as good as some of the high gain amps out there for heavy high gain stuff including Metallica. Now if you play Zep stuff all the time, then the sound is perfect.

Kickstand, have you tried the Herbert. I was really torn between a VH4 and my Triamp and ended up with the Triamp. I played a VH4 through my Orange PPC and it was not as nice as my Triamp. Recently, I heard the VH4 through a rear loaded Diezel cabinet and whoa. Maybe the best I have ever heard at high gain.

Also, if you buy used and buy wisely, you can always get most if not all of your money back and it will teach you responsibility at younger age if you actually have to pay your parents back or pay it off.

Had a Herbert as well and preferred the VH4. Both great amps but the VH4 worked better for me.

[Kickstand]

+1 on the used tip. If you buy used wisely you can usually get all of your money back if you go to sell.

[needlespauls]

I personally would not invest $1500-$3000 an everyday run of the mill amp whether new or used. If you plan on holding on to this set-up for life, due to the rig actually not breaking down on you, and because you actually love it, there are better routes to go IMO.

Either spend under a grand and get the best value that you can in a 2x12 combo of some sort. You'll have plenty of power and flexability over the next few years, and if it breaks down, not as big of a deal.

If you do go all-out in the $1800-$3000 range, be very, very carefull in what you buy. AND, I would absolutely buy a half-stack so that down the road you can get different types of heads to add to the cab that you allready have.
AND, I would buy some sort of hand-made boutique offering instead of the every day brand name. Not for snobbery sake, but because they are plain better, and they can last a lifetime. Pure excellent tones, and peace of mind quality.
REEVES (INCREDIBLE alternative to Hiwatt quality and sound, originated by Hiwatt designers
DR. Z (Better Fender type of amps)
SPLAWN (look into these! improved Marshalls etc!!
*would the Landry work for you? yikes imagine the thought of owning this amp?*
An Avatar 4x12 would be great, and a few hundred less than most boutique or common brand names.

As far as more common amps?
Marshall Vintage Modern 50 Watt Half stack
Vox AC30H2 Tube Guitar Combo Amp (Handwired in Britain, 2x12 Celestion Alnico Blue speakers!!!)
Fender 59' Bassman Reissue, Sweet!
The Orange of your choice, of course....

All of these are just my suggestions. If you have a genre or style that you prefer, buy an amp that will be great for that style or genre, but do NOT buy an amp that is totally a one-trick pony. Do you need multiple channels? Do you prefer single channels?

I know that if I had that budget to work with, the amp would be handwired ptp on a turret board, preferably a head and cab configuration, and 30-50watts. All I personally need is a single channel amp that is very very responsive to attack and the guitars controls, and a boost pedal. I'm a knob/pickup didd'ler LOL!
You'de have plenty of clean headroom if needed depending on tube configuration, and you'de have the flexibility of bringing a valve Jr. head to tiny gigs or jams with your cab if you didn't feel like bringing the big-dog. Wow, the amp world is yours bro! Choose wisely!! Don't spend a lot on mediocrity!!! If you do buy mediocrity, spend little, and milk the most out of it, you'll do fine! If you buy High-end, don't pigeon-hole yourself!! Good luck man

[brettk7]

Originally Posted by b-squared

Get your money, put it in the bank, and then start looking. As already stated, you can get a good Orange amp used for much less than what a new one goes for.

$3K will get you a Landry half-stack, though.

BB

Man, a Landry amp would be really sweet. Its one of my favs, but I think in the longrun the Orange does it for me. I just love how they sound and how excited I get when I get to play one. Maybe an Orange head and a Landry 2x12 hahaha. (I feel crazy saying that, that Landry is so amazing...)

Also, thanks for all your posts guys.

So far, I agree with you guys $3,000 is a lot to spend. My band IS making revenue, although it is slow because we haven't been gigging due to equipment issues. I really like hearing all the suggestions and all, but man... I can't get into the Marshall thing. They all sound good, but I know if I went out and got a JCM set-up that I don't think I would be happy in the end and I would probably try and sell it later. I KNOW if I went out and got a new JVM or something I would be supremely dissapointed. I just flat-out can't get into them. I have generally enjoyed all of them that I have played, but not enough to go out and buy one for sure. It just doesn't sound like I want to sound.

I'd also like to point a few things out haha... I am 21, I am not a child (maybe my adult-hood is at question here haha). And as another note, I have played A LOT of Oranges, the Tiny Terror, Rockerverbs, AD, OR... They all sound awesome to me and have plenty of gain (probably more than I will use). The Marshall seems like too much. The Diesels I thought were tight, but again.. Not enough to get into.

Here is an idea I had, take out a good amount and then try to find use. SOMETIMES I see ridiculous deals around town and on eBay. Maybe I'll do that and then put back what I don't use. Although it would be awesome to just go plop down the money for a brand new Rockerverb 50 and 4x12. Or maybe even the Rockerverb 50 combo, I could save quite a bit of money just by getting one of those. But then again... I REALLY want the half-stack haha.

[brettk7]

You guys REALLY have a good point though, if I am going to spend the money I need to get a super quality piece.

I haven't herd anything bad about the Oranges and reliability.. But, I do not want to get into something problematic (like a hughes&kettner! Man I have herd some bad stories). Reliability is a MUST.

My motto with gear from now on (since I ended up wasting so much on buying/selling my Telecasters) is to get stuff that I will want and use forever. If I think about it, $3,000 really isn't that bad for an amp that I will cherish and enjoy forever. I don't want to HAVE to buy another amp again.

Not to mention that, but you can't tell me that 30 years from my now that a vintage Orange, etc wouldn't be worth a pretty penny!!!

[Stowburst]

Originally Posted by brettk7

Reliability is a MUST.

Stay away from VOX then..

[brettk7]

Originally Posted by Stowburst

Stay away from VOX then..

haha I hear you man. I used to want an AC30 really bad, but that was before I started playing other stuff. I still really like them, but not near enough to own one! The other guitarist in my band has an AC30 (it may be an AC15 now that I'm thinking), and it sounds really good. But, it doesn't seem to be holding up that well.


I think there is a dude on here selling an AD140 for a ridiculous price on here. I might have to get in touch with him!!

[Kickstand]

It sounds like you know what you want which is the first step. Remember there's only one amp that sounds like the orange! Go for it!!!

[decoy205]

Dude you like a heavier distorted tone no??? Peavey 5150 is a great head and they can be had for between 400-600 bucks used! They are solid amps too I just got one for 5150 from '91 or something. They have a great sound and they are inexpensive. Give it a shot man! Ton's of working bands use em.

I had a rectifier for 5 years and it wasnt getting the sound I want. the 5150 does.

I may know a store that is tryign to move one that they are including the 4x12 cab. I can ask if you want. Though it will have to be shipped from NYC.

[ellem52]

There's WAY too much thought going on here.

1) This is NOT the last amp you'll ever buy. Trust me and the rest of the old folks here.
2) If you're really after reliability and tone get a Mesa combo. They sound great and they're built like tanks. They also weight like tanks - but this OK because you're young.
3) Your parents are willing to help you out and that's awesome but there's NO need for a club/party/dance gigging musician to be running around with a 3K amp. If it breaks, or worse gets stolen you're going to hate life and trust me Thanksgiving is going to be really uncomfortable... "Pass the yams... AND DON'T LET THEM GET STOLEN!!!"

Honestly... and I mean this in a really nice way... you should be looking at ~500USD used Line6, Randall or Crate. No one can hear what you're playing at those gigs anyway and you ARE going to beat the crap out of this amp. Just a thought - not a judgment.

[brettk7]

Originally Posted by Kickstand

It sounds like you know what you want which is the first step. Remember there's only one amp that sounds like the orange! Go for it!!!

Exactly. I LOVE that Orange tone!

Originally Posted by decoy205

Dude you like a heavier distorted tone no??? Peavey 5150 is a great head and they can be had for between 400-600 bucks used! They are solid amps too I just got one for 5150 from '91 or something. They have a great sound and they are inexpensive. Give it a shot man! Ton's of working bands use em.

I had a rectifier for 5 years and it wasnt getting the sound I want. the 5150 does.

I may know a store that is tryign to move one that they are including the 4x12 cab. I can ask if you want. Though it will have to be shipped from NYC.

Nah man, the 5150 isn't for me. It is an AWESOME amp by all means, just not what I am looking for. That is way too heavy for what I play now-a-days. Don't get me wrong, I love heavy music sometimes... But, I doubt I'll be playing anything like anytime soon.

[decoy205]

Originally Posted by brettk7

Exactly. I LOVE that Orange tone!



Nah man, the 5150 isn't for me. It is an AWESOME amp by all means, just not what I am looking for. That is way too heavy for what I play now-a-days. Don't get me wrong, I love heavy music sometimes... But, I doubt I'll be playing anything like anytime soon.

You dont have to use all the gain but its there if you need it.

If you know you dig the orange stuff save and grab one and get an avatar cab they are much cheaper and you can even have the same look and quality.