$2500 max passive PA system

[christiangatomon]

I'm willing to spend $2000-$2500 on a passive PA system that will be able to be used for touring and playing small to medium shows. The instruments that will be amplifier are vocals, guitar, and drums. And we're in a rock band, think late Ramones music from when their music was heavier. That is the sound we have. But we incorporate New York Dolls, Sex Pistols, etc etc influences too! But we're really in need of a good PA system for touring. Some advice would be great. We've been looking at active speakers, but we don't think that the active speakers would be very reliable. We've read a lot of horror stories too. And so we'd like to clear it up with you all. Let me know what you think. We appreciate it a lot. We find this dilemma discouraging but thank you for takin' the time to read this post.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[christiangatomon]

Let me know if you have any questions.

[chef]

You need to wait more than an hour and a half for people to respond. Patience is a virtue.

edit: ^^ nice edit!

[BuzzHaze]

Best thing I could recommend would be to put together a suitable system with the help of your local sound & lighting shop, rent the system and really try it out. If you like the gear, then you could either buy it used from their rental stock, or have them order it brand new for you. There are some shops that "rent-to-own" or you could buy most of the system and rent the cheaper components until you have enough to buy all the things you need.

It's not an easy question to answer. Are you in the US, Canada or UK?

[dfwadjuster]

Originally Posted by BuzzHaze

Best thing I could recommend would be to put together a suitable system with the help of your local sound & lighting shop, rent the system and really try it out. If you like the gear, then you could either buy it used from their rental stock, or have them order it brand new for you. There are some shops that "rent-to-own" or you could buy most of the system and rent the cheaper components until you have enough to buy all the things you need.

It's not an easy question to answer. Are you in the US, Canada or UK?

Good advice right here...

[Big John]

Originally Posted by christiangatomon

I'm willing to spend $2000-$2500 on a passive PA system that will be able to be used for touring and playing small to medium shows...Any advice would be appreciated.

To get a decent passive system (mains, monitors, mixer, amps, outboard rack, cabling, etc.) for $2500 means you will have to go with older used gear. Lights not included.

I'm in a 4-piece cover band, and $2500 wouldn't buy 1/3 of what we use (active mains, in-ears, digital mixer, etc.). Again, lights not included.

[christiangatomon]

Hmm. Okay. I'm starting to get desperate so I'm starting to not thing that it matters whether or not it's passive or active. I think passive would be a lot more convenient, however, I'm willing to settle with active. I've been looking at QSC K12's. I'm located within the United States. Washington state to be specific! And I'm going to make my budget for PA Speakers $2500 for an active pair or $2500 for a pair of speakers and power amp to power them. Don't worry about the cables for now though because I'm only focused on the PA Speakers. Also, I appreciate your help a lot! This is a really hard time for our band because this process is being slightly discouraging.

[chef]

Originally Posted by christiangatomon

Hmm. Okay. I'm starting to get desperate so I'm starting to not thing that it matters whether or not it's passive or active. I think passive would be a lot more convenient, however, I'm willing to settle with active. I've been looking at QSC K12's. I'm located within the United States. Washington state to be specific! And I'm going to make my budget for PA Speakers $2500 for an active pair or $2500 for a pair of speakers and power amp to power them. Don't worry about the cables for now though because I'm only focused on the PA Speakers. Also, I appreciate your help a lot! This is a really hard time for our band because this process is being slightly discouraging.

Rent something reasonably good if you just need it for a few gigs.

Maybe you can apply some of the rental to get a deal on buying that PA or a similar setup.

[Big John]

A fellow NW bro, right on. Hey man, I'm not saying you can't do it all for $2500. You will have to utilize gear built 10-20 yrs ago to get it done.

[Big John]

My advice is to hit Craigslist hard. For example, I found this set-up in about 4 seconds. Ranier is about 15 min. south of Spanaway/South Tacoma.

It's 40% of your P.A. for 20% of your budget.

[Inside Guy]

i would say go active. I have used a QSC system, drove it hard at times, and it performs great. Zero complaints here. Passive consumer PA is dying for a reason.

You could get away with K-10's for floor monitors, and K-12's for tops. I would say to add subs for the drums, but you can get thast later.

A used Mackie 1604 mixer would work great for your needs as well.

[PapaSquash]

played through QSC K12s outdoors thursday, venue supplied. Plenty of punch. Only mic'd vocals and drums, guitars through 50W halfstacks, and bass through a Genz-Benz Shuttle with an extra cab. Not sure what the floor monitors were but they were fine.

[bdubbs]

Honestly You can go far with not too much. We run a peavey amp/mixer (newer 600wx2 model) combo with 2 PR15s and 2 active monitors. You can get most of what you need off of that. We mic both guitars (just to fill out the mix) and the kick drum. It really works pretty well. With your budget you can even get a sub.

[dspelman]

$2700 or thereabouts would buy you four Carvin LS 1503s (15" LF/6" Mids/1" tweeter three-ways) with pole mounts plus a 3800W amp. Plus a pair of 18" subwoofers plus a 2000W RMS amp to run those. I think they throw in cables. Scale it back as necessary for smaller gigs.

[christiangatomon]

I've been looking at QSC K12's, QSC KW122's, and JBL PRX612M's. I've been looking at reviews and shoot outs of all three of these active monitors. I've given up on the amp and passive monitors route. But I'm leaning towards the QSC KW122's. I think that if I ended up getting QSC KW122's or PRX612M's that I'd be very, very happy. I think that it'd be a lot better if I got either one of those over the K12's because the KW122, and PRX612M's have wooden enclosures which will allow a better coverage as far as depth I'm thinking. I'm taking all of what everybody in this threat has said in consideration. I would like to know what you think of my thoughts on these. And all of your responses really mean a lot to me and my band. This is such a discouraging process and it really made me question whether or not it's what I really want to do. But it's something that I was born to do so I think I'll keep on goin'. What do you all think about the speakers listed? I like to think of our band as the modern Ramones. I really wish that we could play at least 4 shows every week. It's a little ambition of mine!

[christiangatomon]

Every response to this thread makes an impact on my band in a positive way. So please don't be afraid to let me know what you think.

[marvar]

You aren't going to find much of a touring PA for 2500-
have you considered renting or leasing? When buying a PA you have to think of more than just speakers. Mic's, cables, DI's, repairs, mic stands. speaker cables, outboard gear (EQ, delay, reverbs, compressors),monitors, large enough mixer, transportation, etc. and they all cost, and, can really add up.
My band has plenty of PA between us, but when it comes to storing, moving, setting up, maintanance, and live performance, we'd rather pay someone else to deal with all of that- why be worn out even before you start playing? I tell ya', it's worth 25 bucks from each of us, to be able to just walk in, set up our personal stage gear, and start playing, and, if it blows up- it's not your problem!- and, at the end of the night- 15 minutes after the gig is over, I'm on the way home!

[Big John]

The one and only downside to using powered speakers is reliability. If the built-in power amp should ever fail at a gig, then you lose that speaker and the sound coverage it provides until the power amp is fixed. If a passive speaker system is being used and you experience a power amp failure, then you have options for keeping the speaker going.

Example: from '08-'11, my buddy got the sound contract for the local "Music In The Park" concert series; 6 outdoor concerts during the summer months, crowd size = 1500-2000. I ran the stage monitors for him, as well as helped with set-up and tear-down. His mains were the Mackies that were co-designed with EAW; four 2x15 powered top cabs and four 2x18 powered subs. For monitors, I had him rent eight old JBL SR4732's and an amp rack against his wishes; he'd wanted me to use his eight K-12's. Well, he had 4 power amp failures in the mains during the 4-year contract, and each time it took out that speaker and it's coverage for the entire show. I had 2 amp failures as well, but I was up and running each time within 30 seconds (I had 2 backup amps in the rack).


I know I stated earlier that my band uses active mains. To be completely honest, I worry at every gig that those built-in power amps will fail.

[JW123]

My band has a pretty large pa system, but a couple of years ago I bought my son a Behringer PA head, I think its like 500 watts, we have taken our peavey monitors, and put two on Poles and one on the drummer as a monitor and one up front for the singer and done a few smaller gigs. The head was around $350, and I bought the 4 peavey monitors for $950, stands $100, then you would need cabling and mics.

Honestly you need to look on craigslist and anywhere that you can find used gear for sale, you can get some great deals that way.

You are playing punk music so I assume you want it pretty loud.

In the used arena, I would look for some 15 inch two way speakers for mains, and you might get away with 12 inch monitors. I have an old pair of peavey Internationals, we used to use as mains they handle around 1000 watts and we did a bunch of gigs with them way back there, and I would be afraid of pulling them out for something now.

I would get the idea of new equipment out of my mind, anything you buy depreciates about 40% the minute you uncrate it, look in consignment stores, pawn shops that sort of thing. Mic wise I like SM 58s for vocals and SM 57s for just about anything else, you can find these used in the $75 range or around $125 new.

Good Luck

[christiangatomon]

A lot of you are telling me that I should look on Craigs List but what keywords should I use in Craigs List and what kind of used products should I be looking for? For example, Big John mentioned JBL SR4732's. Should I be looking for a used set of JBL SR4732's? I have been checking on both Craigs List and eBay like you guys told me to though. But I'm just not sure which used product would be the most reliable for this situation. I'm thinking I'll hire a sound guy for the shows (like you all told me I should) but still get a set of PA speakers for rehearsals, songwriting, practicing, etc etc. The reason why I am asking you all for advice on PA speakers is because I already know what kind of mixer I'm going to get. And the cables won't be an issue because those will be really easy to figure out, etc etc. Also I really appreciate your thoughts, comments, ideas, and recommendations a lot! Every thing that's been said I've put a lot of thought and deep consideration into.

[Big John]

Of the available powered stuff that's out there, I'd say the QSC's are hard to beat in terms of sound quality and reliability. When you get them loud, the built-in limiter does a good job of protection at a slight expense of sound quality. But hey, all limiters do that. My same buddy that I mentioned earlier uses his K series all the time in the clubs(K-12's and K-subs), and I don't think he's had a failure yet. He runs them without any EQ and they sound fine as is. But, you can kiss your $2,500 budget goodbye.

[JW123]

To the OP, when you look on Craigslist look for someone with PA GEAR in the posting, in my area at times you can find complete systems for sale for pennys on the dollar. But sometimes they will just sell parts of the system.

If you are going to use the cabs for mains and put drums thru them, I just think 15 inch speakers are better than 12s. Once you find speakers then match a power amp to them, most cabs are 8 ohm, I would try to match them with whatever power rating they have.

Like others said if you just have a couple of shows booked, it might be best to hire someone with a pa system and then see how you like it, this is much cheaper than buying a system and then not liking it when you get out there.

Im not that brand conscious, but we use Yamaha 1x18 subs, and then Yamaha 2x15s for our tops. I push each sub with a QSC 1450 running bridged into 8 ohms, and then a Yamaha 7000 series amp running the tops which are 4 ohm speakers. Mackie 16 channel rackmount, thru a DBX Drive Rack which eqs the room, and is the crossover unit, of course a set up like this will set you way back over your limit.

Some of those Yamaha 1x15 club series cabs would probably do what you want to do, you want to have a system from the start that is expandable incase you do start playing 4 nights a week.

Im mentioned Peavey International cabs, either a 3way or 2 way cab, I see these on CL in the 100-150$ range. The set I have we have had for years.

Dont be afraid of older equipment, especially if you are just going to set up a practice room to start with.

I live in Memphis and some of my favorite club bands use the Yamaha speakers, they arent as clean sounding as JBLs but can probably be bought for half the price.

Mic wise like I said you cant go wrong with Shure SM 58s and Shure SM57s.

Our drummer has some sort of bass drum mic, we mic the snare with a SM 57, then we have these two little CAD condensor mics that we fly over the drums, I mic my guitar with a SM 57, then all vocals go thru SM 58s. Our singer has a wireless SM 58 that he uses. I like using similiar mics because the eq curves on the mics tend to balance out. Our bassist lines his bass rig in.

Good Luck

[Big John]

JW knows the drill.

I just hit my local Craigslist and found this,
and the guy would probably take less.
Deals are out there, all the time.

[JW123]

Big John thats a killer setup that would cost $7000 or more to put together.

I rarely but new equipment, other than our drive rack and the Yamaha 7000 series amp in our system the rest was all pieced together.

This being a guitar site, I have 2 Gibson LP Classic 1960 Reissues, I gave $1000 for each, where as they list for around $2000 at GC when I see them on the wall.

If you see speakers on say CL that are what you want, offer about 40% of what the new retail price is, ussually somebody went out and bought a complete system and maybe used it for a year or two, probably not that many gigs. Just make sure before you go to buy something that you have an idea what it is worth. Ive found that people have equipment especially pa gear that got bought and just sat around til they just needed to move them, this puts a buyer with cash in a really good situation.