Got a new Mustang II. Boy was I wrong!

[Kyle76]

I love my Blues Junior's tubes, but for $100, lightweight, no pedals and iPod input, the MI is pretty sweet to take on vacation, as I am now, or even to pull out at the house with minimal setup. I also use the headphone jack for quiet play. I'm not a huge tweaker. I usually start with a Champ model, add a touch of reverb, and adjust gain to taste. Works for almost everything I want to play. I'd rather play than tweak.

[Tobacco Worm]

thndr,

Welcome aboard buddy!
Guys, this fella here was the man that got me going with the computer linked to my Mustang! If Ole Bill hadn't been there, that Mustang II was in serious trouble! This guy can hit a hotkey faster than EVH can fingertap!

Greg,
I too, like to keep it simple. I would shy away from amps that had more than 5 pots in the panel. But now that I have this thing figured out, I don't have a worry at all. Anytime I can carry a Vox, Marshall, 1/2 dozen Fender amps in one hand is a good day!

All,

The big harry Line 6 Spider III has tone, but you gotta hunt for it. It's loud, but so's a lot of other amps...but I do have a soft spot for a Crate Retrofex 30 that I picked up dirt cheap a year ago. Sure the FX is preset (made it easy for me) and there levels for it are simple, so that was my introduction to digital stuff. The Retrofex has great tone and, when set up right, just sings. This one, as the Mustang II, will stay in the house with me for life. Think that the big Line 6 is going to be traded or sold. Got a Mustang II and my old Crate. Tone enough for this old man...Bill's Crate is a fine example of old school SS amps from the early 80's and there is some magic tone in that amp that defies logic...That's why he got it for a BD present. Getting back into playing from a long layoff, ya need tone!

Sure presets from the factory are over the top. I can only guess that, as others have stated, they're trying to show off how much stuff they got. I agree that the mfg. should have just a few for demo needs, and leave the rest flat, but I'm not their marketing director either.

Okey doke, off my little soapbox...have fun, play loud and proud...

Wade

[FFXIhealer]

I believe it's

"High Speed, Amped Up, and LOUD!"

(The Fender Mustang amp line slogan)

[zslane]

Originally Posted by FFXIhealer

I think the amps themselves are highly intuitive considering what they have to do and the parameters that constrain their use.

You are not thinking like a musician, then. You are thinking like an experienced computer user who knows how to think like the device. From a human-machine interface point of view, that is backwards. Just because people like you and me can adapt ourselves to the needs of the device doesn't mean that the principle of good design should be abandoned simply because of the price point of said device.

Originally Posted by FFXIhealer

It took about 5 braincells to figure that one out on my own. But you keep saying that the amp is hard to use. I still don't see it. Are you the kind of guy who panics if your amp has more than 5 knobs on it?

I'm not, but there are plenty guys out there who are. The OP is one of them. I doubt he is alone.

Originally Posted by FFXIhealer

Maybe you're afraid of taking the time to learn how to use something you've just bought.

Afraid? You seem to think that prioritizing good interface design and ease of use is a fear-based philosophy. It really isn't. Making complex products easy to use is not about "dumbing down" a product, but facilitating its primary purpose, which in this case is getting good amplified guitar tone. Learning how to operate any device is necessary, yes, but making it harder than it needs to be is an approach that is simply not defensible no matter how much smarter than me you think you are.

Originally Posted by FFXIhealer

Fender released a product that was intuitive, easy to use, easy to learn, and fun to play on.

Apparently this is not true for everyone, as the OP can attest to. He needed to consult his computer-savvy friend to help him make a low-end guitar amplifier usable (this wasn't some elaborate piece of professional studio gear). When this happens, you have a clear sign of product design failure, IMO.

[Tobacco Worm]

Now that this as become a techno-battle, I'm a might sorry I posted this in the first place. I should have just kept my mouth shut. Got with Bill (as I planned to anyway) and just set this thing up and taken my frustrations out at my gun range!

Sure I like simple amps. Had a Sovetk that was so simple a child could use it. Loud little sucker too, but back to the point....

1. I am not stupid.
2. I fear no circuit. I have built, modified, and repaired amps and guitars for 30 years.
3. I was well paid for doing so, by three shops. I was contracted with them and served as a mobile tech so to speak. My shop was at my home where I did surgery daily on sick guitars and amps. And yes, I went to school for all this too!!
4. I was never involved with an amp that had a computer in it. Thus the culture shock. I had retired prior to those comming out.
5. If I KNOW what I'm talking about, I will do so by stating what I know. If I DON"T KNOW, I will ask, then ramain silent as I listen to those that do. I sure wouldn't make it sound like I'm self-impressed by continuing to whip a dead horse....even if I don't know if that horse is really dead or not.....

Bottom line; Started out as a sort of rant because I have never hooked a computer to an amp. I always did that with just a guitar (wink), and thus I was frustrated. Now that the amp has been explained. The computer program now understood, I'm 100% traveling at warp speed here. I'm running through Fuse at Mach 3 with my hair on fire! Best part is, being well old enough to have heard how all those "vintage" amps we talk about, I knew them when they were new! Remember, been at this since before 1963. Might want to respectfully ask one of your elders about that now.

So let's let this thread die a peaceful death and move on to another subject....Like....ahhhhh, how to build pocket size amps with chips and a few items and put them into a cigarette pack just to amaze your buds....Doing onboard mods to your ax and such...and forget about trying to shout each other down in a no-win match of cyper combat....Enough already......

Wade

[rjwilson37]

Originally Posted by zslane

Apparently this is not true for everyone, as the OP can attest to. He needed to consult his computer-savvy friend to help him make a low-end guitar amplifier usable (this wasn't some elaborate piece of professional studio gear). When this happens, you have a clear sign of product design failure, IMO.

Everyone is different which goes all the way from where they were raised/what they were exposed to growing up through the ages, and how there brain actually functions. (There is also the killing of brain cells along the way from Motorcycle Accidents to who knows what experimentation of drugs along the way. ) Some people find it a simple to use interface, others can't make a bit of sense out of it. I am sure when they built it, someone said this is the most logical and easiest way to make this amp work and give them some great stuff. Fender did not fail one bit, this amp sells and it really works great, especially at the price you can get them for.

I am a computer programmer and a very good one. But... when I write code, it is simplistic, logical and easy to follow for me. Someone comes in behind me to make modifications or figure out what my program does in some portions and they go... what the heck is he doing here, why is he doing it this way. There are a hundred ways to write code and get the same result from a small program. Two people with the same IQ, but there strengths are in different areas of the brain. To one person it is logical and sensible, to the other person they can't figure out how the other person even got the program to produce the proper result. This is just the way it is.

[FFXIhealer]

Originally Posted by Tobacco Worm

Best part is, being well old enough to have heard how all those "vintage" amps we talk about, I knew them when they were new! Remember, been at this since before 1963. Might want to respectfully ask one of your elders about that now.

Then you'd be the guy to ask. How accurate would you say the amp models are? I've heard that the Fender models are damned near spot-on. I can't compare, because I've never actually played on any other "real" Fender amp. The Mustang II is the first amp I bought. (I'm not counting the little 10-watt 6" piece-of-crap practice amp that came with my $100 Strat-clone starter guitar pack that I don't have anymore.)

EDIT: Oh wait, I did demo a Fender Blues Deluxe at the local music shop once a few months back. It was pretty awesome.

[Tobacco Worm]

FFXIhealer,

To my ears, the '57 Deluxe, Deluxe Reverb, Princeton Reverb, and Champ are pretty dog gone close. Love the Deluxe Reverb and Princeton the best. The Bassman is a bit too dark and the Twin sounds weak and lacks full tone especially in the bottom. The Vox sounds a bit more like the ones I was used to, but appear a might weak in the "punch" that they used to deliver. The Marshall (Plexi type shown as '70's) has a nice tone, but I never owned one of them. One of our bandmembers had one though and I base the tone by his...I was never a Marshall fan. The Peavey 5150 came to the scene as I was gettting out of the business for the most part. They were still quite new then and I never worked on one. My buddy, Ted, played them for quite a while and he swore by them. I can't get his tone from the one in the Mustang though! I never cared for the Mesa tones. Too harsh and dark, so I'd be biased in my thought there.

The Blues Deluxe you spoke of is a good amp. Lots of headroom and real loud! Had one back in the early '90's and played a few gigs with it. Another buddy had the hots for it and so I sold it to him as he was dying to get one, but they weren't around long and he missed out on finding one. So he's still got it I heard and doubt that he'll ever part with it. His '68 335 sounds fantastic through it! I did pull the Fender (Eminance) speaker from it and replaced it with an old ceramic Jensen from the old days in it. What tone!!!!

Hope that gives you some aid in the tone quest with the Mustang. The opinions I have are based on what I remember and how it sounds to me now. The speaker in this amp is, of course, not broken in yet and as it loosens up, these tones may well improve. I gotta get to bed as I gotta go to work in the morning...

Take care,

Wade

[FFXIhealer]

Well, when you come back, here's a piece of information that might help you.

If you open the Advanced tab in FUSE, you will notice lots of options, like cabinet simulations, noise gate, and most of the amps have a "Master Volume" on the left. This Master Volume emulates the Volume knob on most of the amps. This is a little weird, as the amps already have a volume knob on the "faceplate" in FUSE, right?

Well, the Volume knob on all of the amp faces are actually to make sure one preset doesn't over-blast the neighboring preset on your amp so that when you save it, it saves it at that volume. You can use that knob on all of your presets to level out all of the volumes so you don't ruin your hearing (anymore that it already is).

The MASTER VOLUME knob under the Advanced tab, however, is the actual volume knob on the amp model itself. You can use this to try to bring out "power-tube distortion." I use it along with the BIAS knob and the SAG knob to bring the amp models to life.

Also, you'll notice that as you go through the amp models, two of the amps don't have a Master Volume knob there; they have a BLEND knob there.

That is because those two amps: The '59 Fender Bassman and the Marshall 1959SLP had 4 guitar inputs (2 channels) that people would jump together and it had independant pre-amp volume controls. Normally, this blend knob is straight up at 1/2. This will act like your Volume 1 is at 50% and your Volume 2 is at 50%, as if you had jumped the two channels together.

That is probably why your Bassman amp sounds so dark.

If you want to add more Channel 1 volume (high sensitivity), you turn the knob up (a.k.a. to the right). When the BLEND knob is at 100%, you're getting 100% Channel 1 volume and 0% Channel 2 volume, so the amp will sound brighter with more attack and bite and slightly less bass. If you turn the BLEND knob to around 0% (or all the way to the left), then you will be at 0% Channel 1, 100% Channel 2, giving you a much darker tone than you had even started with.

This goes for both the Bassman and the 1959 Plexi. Hope this helps you.

Oh yeah, and it's interesting to hear what the different amps sound like through completely different speaker cabinets too. Play around with that. The default cab for the JCM800 is 4x12M (Celestion G12T-75s), but sometimes I switch it to 4x12V (Celestion Vintage 30s). I almost exclusively use 4x12G (Celestion G12M Greenbacks) with the 1959 Plexi because it's the kind of speaker that Jimi Hendrix used with those amps, as well as Angus Young of AC/DC back in the day. Check 'em out.

[Tobacco Worm]

Thanks for the heads up on that part. I've used the advanced portion alot and find it helpful. Couldn't figure out the blend part though. I thought it was some computer thing going on....know better now, thanks!...Remember, if I don't know, I listen to those that do...

I'll play with that a bit this afternoon as I'm setting up my new guitar that will be delivered today. Looking forward to hearing P90's through the Mustang. Might just prove to be a winner there.

Has anyone that you know of altered the cab on the Mustang? With it being a closed cab, that to me, tends to center the tone, and not allow the speaker to really open up as in an open back or ported cab. Often did cab mods by porting on some closed cabs to allow the speakers more room to move and deliver the volume by the added range ov movement. Just wondering...

But I'll check into the bend portion of the advanced setion. Could explain alot as I was hearing things that sounded off to me. Might just find where I can get the Twin to sound better. As is is right now, it lacks "flavor" as I remember it having...

Thanks again,
Wade

[Kyle76]

Wade, do you think maybe the idea of the Mustang cabinet design is to provide a very neutral output that allows the user to simulate many different cabinet designs through the settings? Opening the cabinet back might improve some models at the expense of others. Likewise, changing the speaker, unless, of course, you are tailoring things to a specific sound and don't care much about all the others. Just guessing here regarding the design ...

[Tobacco Worm]

Jim,

Yeah, I was just wondering. Nearly every amp I've ever owned, if it didn't alreay have an external speaker jack, I'd install one. Usually switched and set to vary impedence to work with the different cabs I had....One cab I had built was designed to work as a test base for new speakers. It was made in such a way that I could do open back, ported, closed back, baffeled, and more. It was also set up to give more or less interior space to allow for different size cabs. It didn't do it all, but it sure made things easier when I'd build a new amp or repaired one and needed a cab to test with...

Not knowing diddly about computer generated amps was why I asked. This is something that I have no background in. Old trannies, tubes, and such, yeah...but not with stuff that needs a disc to set it up and a computer to tweak it. There I'm clueless....

Wade

[danzego]

Originally Posted by Tobacco Worm

Has anyone that you know of altered the cab on the Mustang? With it being a closed cab, that to me, tends to center the tone, and not allow the speaker to really open up as in an open back or ported cab. Often did cab mods by porting on some closed cabs to allow the speakers more room to move and deliver the volume by the added range ov movement. Just wondering...

I'm sure someone out there on the great big internet has. But, since you mention it, that's one of the reasons that a lot of us like and have moved up to (or went straight to) Mustang III's. The open back and Celestion speaker sound much warmer and fuller than the II. It really helps opens up those Fender models, especially. The onboard LCD makes working right at the amp a breeze.

I hate to throw that out there, seeing as you just got a II, but perhaps it's something you might want to consider down the road?

[FFXIhealer]

A few guys over on the Fender forum posted that they opened the back up carefully (the back is sort-of glued on, even with the screws) and replaced the stock speaker with an Eminence Cannibus Rex. They claimed it really opened the amp up.

But before you go that road, I'd like you to do something first. I never really tried this until last week. I pulled the amp out of it's little cubby-hole and leaned it back against the wall to point at my face directly while I was playing. TOTALLY different sound.

The Mustang II speakers, and possibly any other speaker, are very directional. Normally, the combo sits flat and points at my legs, so I get lots of nice bass response, but less high-note definition. I never noticed until I pointed it up and got a lot less bass response to my ears and/or more treble content comming at me. It changed the way the amp sounded to me.

Also, by taking the back off of your Mustang, you void the amp's warranty automatically, especially if while the back is off you add an external jack. Other people have done that too, by the way. Just use the leads that go to your speaker and add a jack/kill-switch so that when you plug in an amp, it cuts out the internal speaker. Then you just have to match impedances. The thing is, since it's a solid-state power amp, from what I understand, you can just either match the impedance, or go over it. My Marshall Lead 12 3005 Microstack has a static (minimum) impedance rating of 8 ohms, but it can handle higher than that easily, like a single 16 ohm cab hooked up instead of both (making it 8 ohms).

SS power amps are a lot more forgiving in this respect. You can go over, but not under. Tube amps are much more picky.

[Tobacco Worm]

OK. cool....if I was thinking about an R&R on the speaker, I'd drop in a Weber. But in view of the fact that Fender has designed this as a closed cab, I'm sure that their engineers had their reasons...a closed cab does focus sound projection dead ahead and that must have been a concern for them as well. Okey doke....no worries here.

I got Bill watching for the big brown truck in our area so he can grab my new guitar and get it out of the 99+ degree heat and direct sunlight! So tonight I'll be busy with my new axe and all...That'll be fun. And since it's not from "Mother G" or the "Big E" the report on it will likely turn up on the other LP sections above this one....maybe....

Later,
Wade

[tinman402]

I spent about 30 minutes with a Mustang II.. Different strokes for different folks I guess.. I did not bond with it.. Sounded boxy, spongy bass and the presets were well I wouldn't use them.. I would rather spend my 150 on something else..

JMO

[rjwilson37]

Originally Posted by tinman402

I spent about 30 minutes with a Mustang II.. Different strokes for different folks I guess.. I did not bond with it.. Sounded boxy, spongy bass and the presets were well I wouldn't use them.. I would rather spend my 150 on something else..

JMO

30 minutes on a guitar and I will know if I like it or not. But... 30 minutes on a modeling amp that you havn't even had a chance to learn how to use it and give up... hmm... Yes, the presets are pretty darn crappy, but once you learn to use the interface and dial in some good tones... ROCK and ROLL!

[Tobacco Worm]

Well I really hate to bring up a dead thread, but I gotta get this off my chest. Being brought up on tubes. Owned several over the years. After I sold my last one in the late 90's I went to old Peavy SS models from the late 70's into the mid 80's...they were ok, but.....I still longed for that old familar tone from those amps with glowing bottles in them....

I suppose that I am a product of my times. Yes, I'm using a computer at this moment to write this post, but I am not a computer guy. I was really trying to become more up to date with the whole modeling thing, but it is not happening....I have made every effort to get into this system with Fuse, the Mustang and all the many whistles and bells it has....to my ears, it has fallen short. Further, I'm really not comfortable relying on a computer to tell my amp what to sound like. I am one that will admit to making mistakes. If I blow it, well, I'll fess up to it and move on....And that is what I'm doing at this point....

I was wrong to think that a computer generated amplifier would take the place of the warmth and soul, if you will, of a good tube amp. So as I reflect on this, when I said I was wrong at the begining of this thread, I believe that I was. I tried very hard to embrace the new system, but I find it lacking what my ears need to hear. Thus today I ordered a Laney amp and will soon part with the Mustang and it's computer cord attachment. It is just not for me...

I want to thank all that came to my aid when I was trying to cope with this unit. I know that you all were really trying to give me a boost in the right direction. It just wasn't the path that I was meant to take....So soon I'll be back with a "Bottle Job" amp again, and I will have my cake and be able to eat it too...I suppose this old dog can't learn too many new tricks afterall...In the end, I have to see the amp glowing and hear the real compression and growl that only tubes can produce. Best of luck to those that can use the Mustang. I'm just really not one of them as "if it don't glow, I can't go" really is etched in my old self....Who knows? I may just do one of those NAD thread on my Laney...but then again, I often think that posting a thread like that is simply saying "Hey everybody, I just got a new amp and you didn't!" And I'm not one to push something I just got into someones face and make it sound like I'm bragging about it...But that's just me maybe...So I admit that I did made a mistake with the Mustang and we'll just leave it at that for now.....I got tubes on the way and I'll be ok in my world.....Maybe Bill might want that Mustang. He's good with computers anyhow...I just want to turn a few real pots and flip switches, and be happy smelling those tubes........

Wade

[Kyle76]

Wade, I think you have come to the conclusion of most who were brought up on tubes. A solid state amp is just not going to cut it if you're seeking a particular tube-based sound. I love my Mustang I for its convenience, but it's not going to replace my Blues Junior. That's why I got the I instead of the III or IV. I wanted convenient and inexpensive, and it's fun to play around with. It might even lead me to a different amp sound down the road, but for serious tone, I'll stick with tubes.

[FFXIhealer]

Well, at this point, you've given it its fair chance and it still failed. NOW you can get rid of the amp and know for sure that it's not something you want to keep. That's the real big problem with a lot of people buying gear. They play it for 15 minutes, buy it, then get home and play it for another 30 minutes and get pissed and take it back. You really have to put a piece of gear through its paces and try its features out before you can just judge it as a bad item.

I guess the Mustang just wasn't for you, man. Good luck with that Laney.

And I totally get ya about not being into modern stuff. I'm a computer technician and even I don't try to force older folks into buying a lot of crap that they really don't need. It makes working for them a lot easier.

...that, and they keep calling me back to work on their stuff because I'm not pushy and condescending like a lot of other computer techs/nerds. More money for the win! Daddy needs more music gear!

[drpietrzak]

TW I am not seeing the M2 replace my 5e3, Bassman, or any of the 10 other tube amps here. But, when I need a decent grab and go or practice amp the M2 works. At a couple of recent events I have used the M2 and while it is not a tube amp 99.9% of the audience did not know and could not tell. In the mix most guitar players did not really notice.

Yes, it feels different to play the M2 and my 5e3. It is like having a compressor on all the time. It is a solid workable amp that was relatively cheap for what it does.

[Tobacco Worm]

Yeah guys, it simply lacked "color" so to speak. Sounded a might too processed and sterile. I have to have an amp that I can "feel" if you know what I mean. The only SS amp that came close to that was an old Peavey Bandit (1st Gen) and even then.....

I'm a guy that likes to use real pots to dial in the tone. Having a computer with an "umbilical cord" attached to the amp just made things a bit too much. Now I don't dislike computers. I use one to do complex ballistic computations for wind drift, drop at distance, humidity and temp....and am able to do this without a hitch. Much faster than with pencil and paper or even with a calculator as it's mostly calculus and some trig involved. With the computer I can whiz through a ballistic workup on a load for a weapon fairly quick. But if in the field, with no computer....well, I'm glad that I can do this on paper and not be dependant on the computer. The loading and such of the ammo and it's use is all by hand. Much the same with an amp. I'd rather feel the amp respond to "hands on" adjustments rather than the computer doing things, and then still come out weak and anemic. It simply could not give me the results I desired.

So thanks again guys. I gave it my best, but failed to get the best in return. It happens....So now I'll be sniffing EL84's and 12AX7's glowing and that will be much more to my taste...I'm going back to paper and pencil

[FFXIhealer]

It's too bad you never got a chance to try one of the big boy Mustang models, the 3, 4, or 5. I know when I turn the Master Volume on my Mustang 5, all of that PUNCH that was missing from all of the amps on the Mustang II suddenly appear and start flapping your pants. Then again, it IS a 150-watt stereo guitar amp with 4x 12" Celestion Rocket 50 speakers. That's a lot of pants flapping.

But I'm a bedroom rocker, so it's kinda overkill to have the Mustang V. If I ever gig, though, it would make a GREAT guitar amp for gigs. It's versatile, has 100 preset slots to use, multiple footswitches to turn effects on/off and to switch through banks of presets at a time, etc. The downside is that the entire rig cost me around $680 after taxes and getting the 2-button switch for it (it came with the 4-button, so now I have 6 footswitch buttons).

Tones are a slight bit different from the M2, because of the different speaker and the fact that I now have 4 in a large cabinet. I get a lot more bass response and it's not quite as "tight" as the M2 combo is. It's a real improvement in sound quality. And I'm damned lucky I didn't get a M5 with a fizz issue.



Here, you can see the Mustang II next to its big brother, the Mustang V head + V412 Cabinet.

[rjwilson37]

That is to bad there TW, I got the Mustang I for an exchange student coming to my house this school year, plus it can record direct through USB for messing around and I can wear headphones late at night for a cranked jam session with myself. It does serve a couple of purposes, but it can not replace my Blackheart tube amp now that I have it setup the way I like it.

[Rhust]

I think the mustangs and the like are good for what they are... Great in some respects, actually... Heck I like the shit out of my vypyr when I want to make sure and wake up my wife... But no way would I be tube-less.. Even at low volume(though quite a bit louder than the vypyr) it has a warmer, more dynamic tone that keeps me playing it whenever I can

[Tobacco Worm]

Well the Mustang II went to a good home. I got with my buddy Bill and it's in his house now. He's far more able to deal with the computer issues and such than me. He was tickled to death to get that amp. I walked it over to his house all packed in the box and he was wailing on it before I could reach my door! So now he'll be able to do what I could not with it and that's a good thing. My Laney will be here next week and then I'll have tubes glowing again and that will make this oldman smile
Oh, and the Line 6 Spider III 75 watter got sold today as well. That put a little change back in my pocket. Might just buy me a analog delay pedal or something with it....

Back in the day when I was playing at clubs and such my main amp was an old Twin with an old Deluxe Reverb as a backup in case the Twin blew a filter cap or something nasty as that....An old Rat and a DOD FX 90 delay was all that was on the floor for me. That was it, along with guitars of choice of course. Nothing fancy. Just plain simple rig that served me for decades...

Well, it's been a programing adventure, but now I'm going home to the simple things with an A/B tube amp and the simple 7 pots to twist now and then...easy enough.

Wade