What's that crazy thing? Oh, you know, just a triangular 3x12 cab.

[SJJMcGhee]

simon townshend (pete's little bro) was playing through 3 of these and the head too i believe at the roger daltry gig i went to last year. the sound was huge there

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by JCM900MkIII

And to make a half stack you need 3 atleast (great marketting though)

Tufnel's Law of Metal implies that, as "11" is better than "10", so are nine speakers better than eight, because of the quantum dispersion characteristics of sound dispersion in a molecular fluid, and, well, just 'cause.

[vain_guitarist]

"I have made no joking remarks Jamie
The design you are suggesting it controls early reflection this is good but the back wall is flat and unless there is a good amount of insulating to absorb it would have early reflection more than the sides....the fact that there is only 3 not 4 side panels that would eliminate one less surface that can vibrate ....I have seen every conceivable shape used in HI FI over my time 50 yrs building speakers and this concept is nothing new to me ...I have my doubts your design is any better than a good solid cab with insulated surfaces be any better...the volume the speaker operates in has more to do with the final sound not the necessary the shape ...the only thing the shape can do is to eliminate wall vibration like on large flat panels...that is why you are seeing more curved panels being used today on high quality speaker cabs ...these such panels are more costly and more work to construct.....anyway carry on with future sales GOOD LUCK ....JIM"

----------------------------------------

Thank you for the GOOD LUCK wishes, Jim, I really appreciate it. I always appreciate feedback, as well as doubts, concerns and praise. It helps me better know my current and potential customers when I learn more about what concerns them, what they've experienced in the past and so on.

All of our enclosures feature acoustic absorption treatments in addition to the unique enclosure design. I am well aware of the vibration concerns surrounding effective guitar and bass enclosure designs. Too tight and the cabinet can sound choked and brittle. Too loose and the cabinet can sound boomy and cloudy. We work very hard in the design process to achieve the outcome that we are delivering to our customers. We even brace the back panel of our smaller combo amplifiers similar to how you would brace an acoustic guitar top for optimal vibration, harmonics and frequency response. Elements of our speaker enclosure designs are proprietary and patent-pending so I can't go into specific details about the various angles or perceived flatness of any of the panels. I hope that someday you have a chance to evaluate our products.

To expand upon my earlier post, we've been in business less than three years. Our clientele continues to grow and include quite distinguished artists in their respective fields. Players like Neal Schon, Vince Gill, Jerry McPherson, Lenny Kravitz, Hunter Hayes, Keith Nelson, Stevie D., Brad Whitford, Patrick Matera, Steve Miller, Simon Townshend, Michael Britt, Tom Hemby and producers/engineers like Paul Ebersold and Justin Niebank have chosen 3RD POWER. If our products had absolutely no other benefit other than looking different, this would not be the case. There is a sonic difference with our products that distinguished music professionals perceive and in fact, prefer over many other tried and true conventional designs. So much so that they have gone out of their way to purchase our equipment.

Industry press has also recognized that we are relevant and unique. MIX Magazine writer and grammy-winning producer, Sylvia Massey, nominated 3RD POWER for a coveted TEC award last year after recording several sessions with our American and British Dream combos. Music and Sound Retailer nominated us for Best New Manufacturer. Premier Guitar has bestowed their coveted Premier Gear award to 3RD POWER. Music Players Online has bestowed their coveted WIHO Award to our 312 cabs. Our equipment has appeared several times on every late night variety show in the USA as well as on the Academy of Country Music Awards, SNL, Grammy's, American Idol and more. Again, if our products didn't excel, we would not be enjoying this unheard of level of success just on cosmetics alone.

I've discussed power supplies with electronics engineers who adamantly refuse to believe that there is any perceptible difference to the sound of an amplifier based on using capacitors of the same value made by different manufacturers. Their position is often the same when it comes to coupling capacitors in the various stages of the preamp, phase-inverter and so on. Based on my own personal experiences, everything affects everything. I have studied the sound of every coupling cap, power supply cap, resistor type and size I can get my hands on and have noted the effect they have on the sound. I have done the same thing with preamp and power amp tubes, as well as power and output transformers and speakers. These and other experiences go into every product I design. They make a difference - sometimes big, sometimes small - but the clientele that is drawn to 3RD POWER can hear and feel the difference and they like it a lot.

In closing, everyone needs a little luck these days as times are hard for almost all of us. For 3RD POWER, we will continue to innovate and strive to develop outstanding tools to solve the myriad of problems that we guitar players still face when in the studio or on stage. We're off to great start.

Thank you, Jim, and everyone else here on this thread for giving me the opportunity to answer some of your questions!

Jamie Scott
CEO/Designer
3RD POWER Amplification

[lonestargtr]

I thought I'd chime in as well since I have a little firsthand knowledge. The most unique feature of the 3rd Power cabinets doesn't only have to do with the parallel surface/resonance facet of the inside of the cabinet, but the interplay of the sound coming out of the front of the cabinets. Having A/B'd the 3rd Power cabinets with a great-sounding Fawn Marshall 412, there is an even-ness (is that a word?) and a warmth of the 3rd Power cab and NONE of the ear-piercing comb filtering and phase cancelling and frequency amplitude build-up of the traditional 412 design. I think most people just "get used" to the sound of a 412, but until you stick your head in front of both, you don't understand how even the dispersion can be with this type of cabinet. In the end, it all comes down to the sound and this is not just a gimmick. 3rd Power amps and speakers sound great and they aren't just copying, they're innovating and making products that are musical and quite frankly, inspiring. That's why I am a proud owner. I've used and owned lots of great gear over the years but I'm using 3rd Power amps and cabs on the road and in the studio now. They're solid.

[Grey]

Weirdly shaped amp thread?

[mudfinger]

I'm all for strange looking amps and cabinets, so long as there's someplace to put my beer.

[slapshot]

Originally Posted by JCM900MkIII

Definately need to hear them first, bit it sounds gimmicky.

3 speakers... How do they wire them to get matching impedances?

And to make a half stack you need 3 atleast (great marketting though)

definitely.I had an 3 x 12 cab for 10 years in the regular square shape.
from memory 1 pair was in series and wired in parallel with the single .... or something like that.it's long gone now

[JCM900MkIII]

Originally Posted by mudfinger

Where am I supposed to put my beer while I play?

EDIT: These would be cooler if they had mechanical robot legs so they could walk themselves into the gig...Also, lasers.

Where to put your beer..?
Do you light emergency flares at a petrolstation as well?
Or a bananapeel at the edge of a cliff?

Free Darwin award for you sir!

[mudfinger]

Originally Posted by JCM900MkIII

Where to put your beer..?
Do you light emergency flares at a petrolstation as well?
Or a bananapeel at the dge of a cliff?

Free Darwin award for you sir!

Your clueless. It's amusing.

[JCM900MkIII]

Originally Posted by mudfinger

Your clueless. It's amusing.

All fun and games m8. Untill the amp takes a beer to the knee.... wait...
That was another saying...

What I'm trying to say is. Why add an extra risky situation to an already fragile expensive piece of equipment?

[mudfinger]

Originally Posted by JCM900MkIII

All fun and games m8. Untill the amp takes a beer to the knee.... wait...
That was another saying...

What I'm trying to say is. Why add an extra risky situation to an already fragile expensive piece of equipment?

The equipment I use isn't fragile, dumbass.

[JCM900MkIII]

Originally Posted by mudfinger

The equipment I use isn't fragile, dumbass.

You got a Line6 Calypso "Jacques Cousteau" edition?

[mudfinger]

Originally Posted by JCM900MkIII

You got a Line6 Calypso "Jacques Cousteau" edition?

Something like that, ya. I'll give you a hint: it's not a Marshall JCM900.

[JCM900MkIII]

Touché...

[alexb17]

haha! I'm sorry but that the whole conversation between mudfinger and JCM900mkIII had me busting up! really funny stuff!

you know Line 6 is gonna be like.... the calypso Jaques Cousteau signature model!

that's not a bad idea!!! We can have a pull cord on it that inflates the zodiac!!!

[Splattle101]

Ooooohhhh, pointy!!!

[rjwilson37]

I just want one 3P Head and one 312 cabinet for my home/gig playing, because I think it sounds great!

[Lungo]

Definately unique looking.

I wonder what my Mesa Dual Rec would look like sitting on top of one of those cabs. I'd put brackets on the top that create a flat surface for an amp to sit on.

[Eric Smith]

That thing is pretty cool. I want one....err two....what? you have to have three to put your head on top? Screw it.

[dspelman]

Originally Posted by lonestargtr

I thought I'd chime in as well since I have a little firsthand knowledge. The most unique feature of the 3rd Power cabinets doesn't only have to do with the parallel surface/resonance facet of the inside of the cabinet, but the interplay of the sound coming out of the front of the cabinets. Having A/B'd the 3rd Power cabinets with a great-sounding Fawn Marshall 412, there is an even-ness (is that a word?) and a warmth of the 3rd Power cab and NONE of the ear-piercing comb filtering and phase cancelling and frequency amplitude build-up of the traditional 412 design. I think most people just "get used" to the sound of a 412, but until you stick your head in front of both, you don't understand how even the dispersion can be with this type of cabinet. In the end, it all comes down to the sound and this is not just a gimmick. 3rd Power amps and speakers sound great and they aren't just copying, they're innovating and making products that are musical and quite frankly, inspiring. That's why I am a proud owner. I've used and owned lots of great gear over the years but I'm using 3rd Power amps and cabs on the road and in the studio now. They're solid.

First post = shill post?

[rxbandit]

If I was rich I'd rock those for sure, I think they're baller.

[dspelman]

Originally Posted by vain_guitarist

All of our enclosures feature acoustic absorption treatments in addition to the unique enclosure design. I am well aware of the vibration concerns surrounding effective guitar and bass enclosure designs. Too tight and the cabinet can sound choked and brittle. Too loose and the cabinet can sound boomy and cloudy. We work very hard in the design process to achieve the outcome that we are delivering to our customers. We even brace the back panel of our smaller combo amplifiers similar to how you would brace an acoustic guitar top for optimal vibration, harmonics and frequency response. Elements of our speaker enclosure designs are proprietary and patent-pending so I can't go into specific details about the various angles or perceived flatness of any of the panels. I hope that someday you have a chance to evaluate our products.

Mind if I ask what kind of engineering background you have? Electrical? Acoustical?

Seems to me I've seen triangular cabinets like this before, and quite a while back. Mind telling me how you get around pistonic physics and eliminate beaming? Mind if we actually check frequency response on and off axis of one of those arrays of multiple triangular cabinets? What applications are you using to model cabinet volume required for the specific speakers you use?

Certainly there are better cabinet designs than the 4x12 -- after all, it was a drummer who laid it out on a cement floor based on the minimum space necessary to hold four of the low-wattage speakers he needed to accommodate his amps.

Multiple speaker arrays (whether arranged in lines, triangles, groups, etc) essentially function as one large speaker with a shape roughly equivalent to the shape of the array and a diameter roughly equivalent to the largest dimension of that array (let's say 26" in your case, compared to about 35" on a 4x12). To find the frequency at which beaming will begin to be noticeable, divide 13,500 (roughly the speed of sound in inches) by 26" to arrive at 520Hz. Above that, dispersion narrows significantly. That's better than a 4x12, of course, but you have three speakers instead of four. I'd have had a bit more respect for this whole project regarding dispersion if you'd put those three speakers into a vertical line array.



The wider the array (three triangular boxes wide) the narrower the horizontal dispersion.

I've gotta wonder when the idea that bracing the back wall to *enhance* resonance ("like the top of an acoustic guitar*) came to you, when nearly every acoustical engineer designs bracing to *eliminate* resonance and enhance stiffness, so that speaker power isn't wasted vibrating walls and backs at frequencies that can be seriously annoying.

There's also the issue of hauling around 80 lb boxes that waste space and 42 lb heads with tube delicacy (this is coming from someone who's seen big iron transformers torn off their chassis in a parking lot drop). That's definitely not a step forward.

Here's what's a step forward:
I recently began looking for a bass rig (newb to bass) and was expecting to be looking at 4x10s, 8x10s, maybe even 2x15s. What I found was a relatively new breed of cabinet engineered around newish speaker designs with enormous Xmax and power handling; specifically the Eminence Kappalite 3015LF (15") and the 6" 18Sound mids drivers, both neo-based. Not only are the cabinets ported, sized and designed specifically for these speakers (improperly designed cabinets can lead to driver failure), but they were also designed using thinner-wall plywood with proper bracing for stiffness and resonance elimination. And, of course, they're properly loaded with damping materials. The result is a speaker cabinet that's both lighter and louder than commercial 4x10s and that has excellent dispersion via the 6" mids and the 1" tweeter. These cabinets can easily run 126 dB (in those bass areas) without distortion, and a pair of them can run 132 dB stacked, while maintaining that outstanding dispersion of mids and highs off axis.

But wait, there's more. Rather than simply slapping together some 3/4" birch ply, or even working with the lighter 1/2 birch ply and bracing, some of these speakers are composite construction (foam and fiberglass).



The result is a speaker that's stronger than 3/4" birch ply construction, but that weighs, completed and finished with drivers, about 38 lbs. This is a cabinet that will handle 900W at 8 ohms (I'll be running a pair with 1500W, bridged, at 4 ohms). Footprint required? 23" wide, 16" deep. Even covering materials are different. Tolex was a good idea in 1962, but it's due for a rethink 50 years later. Most of these cabinets are being coated in Duratex, an extremely tough textured material that doesn't rip and can be easily returned to a new look in a few minutes. Some are being hosed down with things like LineX, a pickup bed truck liner that's amazingly tough (check out some Mythbusters episodes for examples) and is nearly structural. I've got speaker cabinets coated in that stuff that have skated along sharp obstructions that would have ripped the tolex right off ordinary cabinets. That 1500W amp is, of course, solid state, and weighs 10 lbs, with active controls, graphic EQ and more. Total weight for a full stack of two cabinets and 1500W amp is 76 lbs, about five pounds lighter than a single 3x12 from 3rd Power.

Better dispersion, wider range frequency response, little or no comb filtering, lighter weight, stiffer construction. That's "a step forward."

But wait, there's more. These parameters are showing up in new speaker cabinets and designs across the spectrum from folks like fEARful, Barefaced Bass, Enhanced Audio Designs, AudioKinesis, BFM designs, LDS, and even Avatar (check their TB153). They're not simply knocking together something that looks different but that essentially rechannels the "same old"; these folks are in the vanguard of producing things that easily outperform what's on the market commercially.

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by dspelman

....[There are genuinely] new speaker cabinets and designs across the spectrum from folks like fEARful, Barefaced Bass, Enhanced Audio Designs, AudioKinesis, BFM designs, LDS, and even Avatar (check their TB153). They're not simply knocking together something that looks different but that essentially rechannels the "same old"; these folks are in the vanguard of producing things that easily outperform what's on the market commercially.

Well friggin said.

Guitar players have to be the most technologically conservative and timid group of musos in modern music. We're the violin players of rock, hunting around for a Strad.

[TOMMYTHUNDERS]

Originally Posted by vain_guitarist

Terrible band buckcherry likes my cabs, so should you! also, my cabs sound great! so buy three and give 'em a try! (you have to buy three or your head sits on the ground LOL)

summarized

Originally Posted by lonestargtr

hi, it's me vain_guitarist again, these cabs are for real great, are you fooled?

summarized

Originally Posted by mudfinger

Your clueless. It's amusing.

HE HAS A CLUELESS?!?! NO WAY!!

[hipofutura]

Originally Posted by TOMMYTHUNDERS

summarized

summarized

HE HAS A CLUELESS?!?! NO WAY!!

What a cynic!

[kingedb]

Ouch.

[Splattle101]

Originally Posted by ANEAS

The concept of non parallel walls is a good idea but these cabs have a flat back which is the wall that will give early reflection more than the side will ...so I think this shape is more a gimmick ....If you wanted a cab with no reflecting surfaces that would be a sphere or egg shaped one of natures ideal form and structure ....This is a sales pitch on 3 d concept....JIM

I have heard a pair of spherical speakers. They were (are) made from concrete. There is some interesting stuff going on with them.

[mudfinger]

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Tufnel's Law of Metal implies that, as "11" is better than "10", so are nine speakers better than eight, because of the quantum dispersion characteristics of sound dispersion in a molecular fluid, and, well, just 'cause.

Tufnel's Law. This concept deserves its own thread.

[lunchbox]

That's really cool, but you need 3 cabs just to put your head on top. Talk about great marketing strategy!!

[ANEAS]

Originally Posted by Splattle101

I have heard a pair of spherical speakers. They were (are) made from concrete. There is some interesting stuff going on with them.

Splattle
The most unique sphere speaker is the CABASSE LaSphere it is a 4 way coaxile ....I listened to them at the CES in Vegas 6 yrs ago and they were fabulous be so was the price $176,000 US ...this was there flagship speaker.....JIM