Amplifier Manufacturer Customer Loyalties

[BigAl]

We've all seen it. We've all heard it. Hell, many of us are guilty of it - myself included. There's the Marshall crowd, the Fender crowd, the Mesa crowd etc. etc...

I love many other manufacturer's products', but somehow I seem to always find the tones in my head back in Petaluma, CA. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of amps I'd love to have in my back pocket (Marshall JVM 410H, Roland JC-120, Diezel VH4 etc.), but I always seem to get drawn back to the mysterious allure of my favourite amp maker.

I suppose that this is another "rumination" thread, but I seem to notice this a lot with guitar players. It seems that some folks become loyal to a brand simply because they own one (or many) of their products. Like I said earlier, I am, to an extent, also guilty of this - so I'm not pointing any fingers.

I've owned many amps of many different brands, and I've done so because I was searching for the sounds in my head, and the search didn't really stop until I found what I was looking for. That being said though, a great sounding amp is a great sounding amp, regardless of who built it.


So what say you? What do you think of brand loyalties in the guitar amplifier world?

[gtr-tek]

One would tend to go with that has worked for them before. I like having some variety, so I have a few different brands. I'm not a die hard Fender fan or Mesa or whatever. I get what fits what I'm doing and what I can afford at the time.

[chrisuk]

Like any other branded product I guess there is a certain house style with their products - some of this comes down to style and some of it substance.

Of course some folk like the association with a genre or particular artist .

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by chrisuk

Of course some folk like the association with a genre or particular artist .

I think that's also an important factor to many that I forgot to mention .

[onioner]

If I find something especially pleasing, at a price I can afford, and I'm treated well, then heck yeah, I'll go back. It's not that I don't believe that there are other great companies, it's just that I already know I like company X, and that known vs. unknown is a big deal.

[River]

People are more visually oriented than aurally. Some animals have exceptional hearing, smell, or eyesight. Some have two nearly equal - all three is exceedingly rare.

Humans have great eyesight and, more importantly, associate shapes and patterns with mental images and concocted memories that permanently flavor and even overwhelm their other senses. That's why branding and brand loyalty are so effective on us. Hence, a Marshall that sounds like a Fender probably won't win over many Fender folks, and the reverse is true as well.

[Archtop 13]

This might be due to the distinct differences in the major brands out there. Boutique amps are a whole different ballgame. But it usually comes back to the tone they are emulating.

[wrc73]

I don't understand brand loyalty. I buy what suits me best, has the best quality, for the best price. In that order, who cares what the brand name is.

[bufbills]

Originally Posted by wrc73

I don't understand brand loyalty. I buy what suits me best, has the best quality, for the best price. In that order, who cares what the brand name is.

I dont think thats its a case of caring what brand it is, so to speak. I think its more of knowing what to expect from your brand. Quality, looks , etc. I like my brand, and will remain loyal to it, so long as it remains loyal to me.

[wrc73]

Originally Posted by bufbills

I dont think thats its a case of caring what brand it is, so to speak. I think its more of knowing what to expect from your brand. Quality, looks , etc. I like my brand, and will remain loyal to it, so long as it remains loyal to me.

There are small builders out there that break the mold: Phaez as you well know, but lets not forget RudeMood, Cygnus, PSonic (hope that is right), and others. I bought a Phaez based entirely on feedback from forum members, and love it, but I would buy a different brand in a heart beat if I thought it would fit my needs better. I would rather take the chance on an unknown builders quality than buying the crap that I know the big three produce, that is, unless you are going to pony up the big bucks for their classic models! I don't care one bit about what to expect from a brand name, the big three have let me down all they are going to. Long live micro beers and micro amp builders!

No offense intended bufbills, and I could be missing the point again, I don't know?

[Rhust]

Originally Posted by wrc73

I don't understand brand loyalty. I buy what suits me best, has the best quality, for the best price. In that order, who cares what the brand name is.

I totally agree... but when you come across a brand name you haven't heard of... my first question is "will it break?" then... if it does can someone work on it? how's the customer support? does this mfg produce a few amps a year, or a few thousand? I'm much more apt to take a chance on a guitar brand that I don't know than an amp brand I don't know...

I'm not really brand loyal though... I like mesa, I like fenders, I like marshalls... etc... there's a long list of amps I like and there's a long list of amps I know nothing about... no one I've known has had one, etc... there are very few I can say " I don't care for that" and those are all from personal experience and preference.

I know people who really only EVER use one brand... one car brand, one amp brand, one string brand, one guitar brand... I like to try new things though and hope they work out

[redcoats1976]

ive never been able to afford a boutique or vintage amp,but have tried a few brands out.so far fender is my favorite.

[wrc73]

Originally Posted by redcoats1976

ive never been able to afford a boutique or vintage amp,but have tried a few brands out.so far fender is my favorite.

We all love what Fender, Marshall, and VOX were, how many of us love what they are? What they charge for what we want is an insult! There are too many builders out there that can do better for so much less.

[bufbills]

Originally Posted by wrc73

There are small builders out there that break the mold: Phaez as you well know, but lets not forget RudeMood, Cygnus, PSonic (hope that is right), and others. I bought a Phaez based entirely on feedback from forum members, and love it, but I would buy a different brand in a heart beat if I thought it would fit my needs better. I would rather take the chance on an unknown builders quality than buying the crap that I know the big three produce, that is, unless you are going to pony up the big bucks for their classic models! I don't care one bit about what to expect from a brand name, the big three have let me down all they are going to. Long live micro beers and micro amp builders!

No offense intended bufbills, and I could be missing the point again, I don't know?

Oh none taken. And I was by no means challenging your reply. Just commenting. Ive been let down by a lot of amps. Amps that were supposed to be "awesome", and that are raved about. My point is that Im very happy with where i am now amp wise and the brand I use would certainly be my first choice. Hands down. Im absolutely certain that there are other brands that I would feel the same way about, but after going through so many to get here, Ill stick where Im at.

Would I buy an old Silvertone or a GA 20? In a heartbeat!

[LPV]

No good at brand loyalty with amps, check my sig. I like my amps like 2pm Sat. at Costco when they bring out all food samples. Little bit of this, little bit of that. No one tone works for me 100% of the time. I get bored.

[wrc73]

Originally Posted by bufbills

Oh none taken. And I was by no means challenging your reply. Just commenting. Ive been let down by a lot of amps. Amps that were supposed to be "awesome", and that are raved about. My point is that Im very happy with where i am now amp wise and the brand I use would certainly be my first choice. Hands down. Im absolutely certain that there are other brands that I would feel the same way about, but after going through so many to get here, Ill stick where Im at.

Would I buy an old Silvertone or a GA 20? In a heartbeat!

I hear you, I really do. Phaez would be the first place I look for a new amp, but not the last. I guess what I am saying is, hypothetically speaking, when Phaez goes from tweed, to brown, to black face, to silver face, to red knob, to buy our PCB versions of the amps we made 45 years ago for astronomical prices when is enough enough? Why would anyone buy a new Fender, Marshall, or Vox?

[GrouchyDog]

Originally Posted by wrc73

We all love what Fender, Marshall, and VOX were, how many of us love what they are? What they charge for what we want is an insult! There are too many builders out there that can do better for so much less.

This is so true! Gibson's the same way - they're putting (in most cases) mediocre guitars out and getting top-shelf money based on their history.

A lot of folks try to recapture past days with buying gear - I sure have. If I were in the market for, say, a JTM45 because <insert guitar hero name> used one, these days I'd much more likely look into a Germino or Metro or similar builder - from what I know, they'd provide a truer, better-built amp. BUT, I think there'd always be that little voice saying "but it doesn't say MARSHALL on it like <hero>'s did". You need to get to the point of maturity/don't-care/tone-chasing where you TRULY are chasing tone for its own sake. Lots of people will say they're there, but I don't think so many truly are.

[Luckynumber3]

I have an old roland cube and a fender blues junior. The cube is okay, but I definately do not have any roland/ boss loyalty...

Then there is the blues junior. I bought it after playing and liking hot rod deluxes a few different times. The blues junior, in comparison, was pretty lame. The tweed is sweet, butdespite pulling itout of the new package, there was apparently a ding in the side of the amp (I have lived with that since I got it and never really complained), the tubes seem like they can fall out pretty easily, the plate on the back of the amp (that says blues junior) was scratched up, etc. From what I can find of fender, the quality is either cheap or the amp sounds pretty bad/ does not work well unless it is cranked beyond house vibrating levels, etc. Then there are the more vintage styled ones, which don't work for me since I like using a guitar plugged straight into an overdriven amp.

I sort of want a mesa and sort of don't. I was really planning on getting a mini rectifier but after looking at it further, I don't know if I really care much for the mesas. If I could have a place to crank an amp, I would definately want a dual rectifier or something like that for high gain tones, but outside of that, I am not sure how much I really want a mesa.

I guess the point is that I really cannot see brand loyalty always getting you everything you want. Sometimes it can be fun to switch things up and go to something entirely different! As for me, if I had thousands of dollars to build a live rig, I wouldn't mind trying a twin reverb for cleans, a marshall/ boutique marshall clone for most overdrive uses, a mesa rectifier for heavy tones, some other amps mixed in for other types of sounds (I would really like to own a bogner ecstasy...).

But yeah, on top of all this, I am probably going to end up witha custom phaez build soon or a vox handwired amp, which are pretty different than everything on my list! I guess I have always sought out the "perfect" tone, but now that I have had that in my head forever, I am sort of bored and want something different.

So no, no loyalties here.

Originally Posted by Rhust

I totally agree... but when you come across a brand name you haven't heard of... my first question is "will it break?" then... if it does can someone work on it? how's the customer support? does this mfg produce a few amps a year, or a few thousand? I'm much more apt to take a chance on a guitar brand that I don't know than an amp brand I don't know...

Same here- really turned me off on wanting to order a custom amp of some sorts, just because if anything goes wrong years down the road, I don't know if any amp repairmen will be able to fix it. They probably could fix anything, but still makes me a bit nervous.

[chrisuk]

Originally Posted by Luckynumber3

Same here- really turned me off on wanting to order a custom amp of some sorts, just because if anything goes wrong years down the road, I don't know if any amp repairmen will be able to fix it. They probably could fix anything, but still makes me a bit nervous.

A handwired amp will always be fixable.

[LPV]

Actually, when it comes to fixing custom amps its a non-issue unless there is some really funky transformers involved. The thing is VERY LITTLE has actually changed in the design of amp in the last 50 or 60 years. There are exceptions (like what 65 does) but for the most part its extra gain stages and some relays. No big deal. And most well built PCB amps are serviceable so gotta give em' their due.

[Escher]

My Mesa obsession had a simple beginning.

When I started taking lessons three years ago, there was this crazy looking amp in the practice room... I mean seriously - the thing made me nervous - it just looked METAL.. I'm not really a hardcore metal guy, so this thing just made me edgy - like it was sitting there threatening me..

"Hey you - yeah you - the guy in khaki's who has no business being in this beer soaked practice room - if they plug me in... I promise you - I will destroy you - I will make you cry, and your ears will bleed.. you will run from this place like a little girl... Muhahahahahaa"..

That Diamond Plated beast taunted me for a couple of weeks - and then my instructor plugged in one day... and dear lord in heaven it really did everything it said it would... but I didn't run - I stood my ground and took my auditory flogging. As he ripped out "Master of Puppets" and "This Calling"...

Then something interesting happend - he changed channels and played Bethoven I believe.. crystal clear and clean. It was like the amp had a dual personality... I was shocked.

In the weeks that followed - I plugged into that clean channel often and found it was simply a beautiful thing.

That, obviously, was a Dual Recto.... and it put me on the rectifier path... I'm on my third in the series and just love them. From the Blue angel that lives up to its name, to my time with the chameleon like Rectoverb, these amps are amazing. Yup - I'm a Mesa fan.

[Cygnus X1]

I understand the Mesa loyalty.
Not for everyone but I like the way they stand on their own and stand behind their products.

I even like the philosophy.
High gain built into a Fender was how it started, and I think along similar lines as I design.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I've owned four Fenders and four Peaveys, but I'm not too picky. It needs to give me good tones -- mainly a good clean tone and touch sensitivity -- and be reliable. The wider the sweet spot, the better.

[Stonehead]

I would have to agree with BigAl on this, Ive owned Vox, Crates, Peaveys, Fenders, Marshalls and others but when i got my first Mesa the sound in my head was coming out of that amp.....it was just awesome. Now i'm gas'n for a Mark V. wifey might not be too pleased.... Is it worth the divorce??? I'm think'n Fuk Yaaaa!

[eaglewolf]

I've got too many sounds in my head for one amp to be all I play. Some may be much more of a musician than me know exactly what they want in an amp, but I'm not there yet.

So in my case, I love my Phaez, Fender, Blackstar, Vox, and the baby Marshall. I'd love to have another Mesa (the Roadster was a great amp but too loud for me), a Soldano, a 65 Amps, another Fender, Marshall, & Vox, and a number of other great amps I've heard.

The boutique amps are wonderful, but usually too pricey. Phaez is different in that respect, which is partly why I own one. If the MLP-35 had a $2000-$3000 price tag on it, I doubt i would have bothered. That's not to say it isn't worth it, but just that I probably would have spent my money elsewhere since I knew so little about the amp builder.

In the end, I'm just as happy plugging my Tele into my Blues Jr. as I am with the McCarty driving the Phaez. Or the Tele driving the baby Marshall. All have completely different tones and match different musical moods. Like LPV said, a little of this and a little of that. I understand other's brand loyalty if they are not obnoxious about it, but that just isn't me at this point.

David

[Splattle101]

I'm an amp hussy. I'll play what sounds good. I own two Fenders, but both are modified to a greater or lesser extent. I also have a Mongrel amp that I built which is not a Fender, but something a bit like a Marhsall. I also have a champ clone I built, with a circuit that is not exactly like the original, and which doesn't sound like any Champ I've ever heard.

And I feel absolutely no emotional attachment or loyalty to any brand of anything: guitars, cars, amps, beer, whatever. It's just a product and it's either fit for purpose and at a reasonable price for what it is, or it's not on my radar. I don't give a pinch of dry goat scatter which corporation built it.

However, if it's built by a small company or a single builder I treat it very differently.

[colchar]

Originally Posted by wrc73

Why would anyone buy a new Fender, Marshall, or Vox?

Because they like them better? Because they do what they want them to?

[SteveGangi]

Originally Posted by LPV

Actually, when it comes to fixing custom amps its a non-issue unless there is some really funky transformers involved. The thing is VERY LITTLE has actually changed in the design of amp in the last 50 or 60 years. There are exceptions (like what 65 does) but for the most part its extra gain stages and some relays. No big deal. And most well built PCB amps are serviceable so gotta give em' their due.

This. The "style" of making connections (handwire vs PC board vs turret) should be a non-issue, so long as the quality and workmanship are there. But future parts availability can be a worry.

[kmrumedy]

Blackface Fender Twin Reverb all day long and twice on Sunday.

[Deftone]

Fender's been good to me, Peavey's been good to me, Marshall's been good to me, Mesa's been good to me, Krank's been good to me, Phaez has been REAL good to me....