Send Return Jacks ?

[MIDNIGHT]

can anyone enlighten me please?

i've been researching on amps lately, and i've been seeing 2 inputs on some amps labelled Send and Return.. they're is for effects loops?

what do they mean, what are they for, and how are they used?

thanks guys

[lp59aholicDon]

Yep You got it Jason, Thats the loop, By pass's the Pre amp section so your effects come after the loop and your guitar to pre amp section says intact and unbroken
Send, goes into the Imput of your effect(s) Return, Back to the amp
if you ever plug keyboards into a guitar amp I would strongly suggest using the return loop , as most keyboards have their own pre amp many times stronger than that of the guitars , You can roast a pre amp and or good guitar amp this way in short order

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Yep You got it Jason, Thats the loop, By pass's the Pre amp section so your effects come after the loop and your guitar to pre amp section says intact and unbroken
Send, goes into the Imput of your effect(s) Return, Back to the amp
if you ever plug keyboards into a guitar amp I would strongly suggest using the return loop , as most keyboards have their own pre amp many times stronger than that of the guitars , You can roast a pre amp and or good guitar amp this way in short order

so you've got one PL from the amp to your effects machine, and then your guitar still goes straight to the amp?

just trying to get things straight

that's not how my ME-50 works though if that is the case.. you plug your guitar TO THE ME-50 AND THEN to the amp.. in other words, an indirect guitar-to-amp connection..

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by midnightdreamer

so you've got one PL from the amp to your effects machine, and then your guitar still goes straight to the amp?

just trying to get things straight

that's not how my ME-50 works though if that is the case.. you plug your guitar TO THE ME-50 AND THEN to the amp.. in other words, an indirect guitar-to-amp connection..

Jason, Try and re read my original. You plug your guitar into the input jack!
Effects send from that into effects input, if your gonna have a daisy chain, from there just like you were plugging your guitar to the effect then into input, last effect out to RETURN imput of the loop . connection complete

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

Jason, Try and re read my original. You plug your guitar into the input jack!
Effects send from that into effects input, if your gonna have a daisy chain, from there just like you were plugging your guitar to the effect then into input, last effect out to RETURN imput of the loop . connection complete

haha sorry Don

please don't get pissed...........













but i still don't get it

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by midnightdreamer

haha sorry Don

please don't get pissed...........













but i still don't get it

I aint pissed Jason,
Ok, Now Step by step clarified directions on how to set up and use an effect loop
Step 1 Plug guitar to guitar amp input
Step 2 with patch cord cable, plug one end into send, the other into the effect, such as pedal board, EQ, Overdrive unit, Ect, if your going to use more than one effect ( Daisy chain) then plug effect one to two, and on, the plug the last effects output with another patch cable into Return,
Voila, You now have a working effects loop once you turn the amplifer on

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

I aint pissed Jason,
Ok, Now Step by step clarified directions on how to set up and use an effect loop
Step 1 Plug guitar to guitar amp input
Step 2 with patch cord cable, plug one end into send, the other into the effect, such as pedal board, EQ, Overdrive unit, Ect, if your going to use more than one effect ( Daisy chain) then plug effect one to two, and on, the plug the last effects output with another patch cable into Return,
Voila, You now have a working effects loop once you turn the amplifer on

ohhh!!!

i get it now! thanks Don!

now i just don't know what a daisy chain and what an effects loop is..

thanks again for being patient with my lack of knowledge Don

[lp59aholicDon]

Originally Posted by midnightdreamer

ohhh!!!

i get it now! thanks Don!

now i just don't know what a daisy chain and what an effects loop is..

thanks again for being patient with my lack of knowledge Don

A daisy Chain is a chain of efffects pedals like when Bobbo posted " Lets see your pedal boards, The loop is the send +effect(s) Back into amps return, completing A Loop the other end of the loop is that with nothing in the send and return, the send and returned are by passed naturally so the pre amp goes right to the guitar amps effects, like trem , vibrato, reverb circut, then to the main power amp, then to the speaker,

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

A daisy Chain is a chain of efffects pedals like when Bobbo posted " Lets see your pedal boards, The loop is the send +effect(s) Back into amps return, completing A Loop the other end of the loop is that with nothing in the send and return, the send and returned are by passed naturally so the pre amp goes right to the guitar amps effects, like trem , vibrato, reverb circut, then to the main power amp, then to the speaker,

i see..

DAMN I LOVE THIS FORUM

thanks again Don!

really appreciate it dude! you rock!

[lp59aholicDon]

hey dude, NOW you be edjumacated !
Take your cert in amplifier loops 101 ! yeah I had to have a ciggy after that one !

[LoKi]

I find the best way to think of an amp is in stages.

Input - Preamp - Effects Loop - Power Amp - Cabinet *or speakers*

So if you want to use oscillating or echo/delay effects, they are best suited AFTER the preamp stage of an amp, so you'd put em in the loop so that your distorted *or clean* sounds get processed *effected* AFTER the guitar sound hits the amp, instead of before. Both can sound good, but the loop is definitely best for Delay or Chorus type effects, or a seperate EQ for tone shaping.

[LoKi]

Then of course you get into the age old question... do I echo the reverb, or reverb the echo?

This applies to any and all effects, and combinations of distorted/clean tones. Gets tricky. There are 'standards' that most people use, but anything goes in this wacky world of guitar sounds.

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by LoKi

I find the best way to think of an amp is in stages.

Input - Preamp - Effects Loop - Power Amp - Cabinet *or speakers*

So if you want to use oscillating or echo/delay effects, they are best suited AFTER the preamp stage of an amp, so you'd put em in the loop so that your distorted *or clean* sounds get processed *effected* AFTER the guitar sound hits the amp, instead of before. Both can sound good, but the loop is definitely best for Delay or Chorus type effects, or a seperate EQ for tone shaping.

oh cool

another nice thing to know.. thanks LoKi

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by lp59aholicDon

I aint pissed Jason,
Ok, Now Step by step clarified directions on how to set up and use an effect loop
Step 1 Plug guitar to guitar amp input
Step 2 with patch cord cable, plug one end into send, the other into the effect, such as pedal board, EQ, Overdrive unit, Ect, if your going to use more than one effect ( Daisy chain) then plug effect one to two, and on, the plug the last effects output with another patch cable into Return,
Voila, You now have a working effects loop once you turn the amplifer on

so i can do this with my ME-50 right? in other words, will this work with multi-effect processors?

[Pwozzie]

I thought you run OD's through the preamp...... me confused haha

[MIDNIGHT]

also, is doing the effects loop thing better than doing this???:





'ppreciate your help guys

[Adwex]

Jason,

The way LoKi described it is really the best way to think of the whole signal chain. Every amp has a preamp (or gain stage), and a power stage section. The effects loop provides a way to put "stuff" between the 2 stages...after the preamp and before the power amp.

Some effects are gain type effects (distortion, overdrive, EQ, Wah, compressor, etc.), some effects are time based, or modulation type effects (reverb, delay, chorus, flanger, etc.).

LoKi mentioned the issue of effect order...which one comes before or after another. Some effects will sound absolutely horrible if placed in a particular order. Since the preamp is where you get most of your distortion, I like to look at effect order as a question...Do I want to "reverb the distortion", or "distort the reverb"? The order in which I place the 2 will drastically affect the sound. Reverb placed before the preamp will sound horrible. Likewise, a distortion pedal after the reverb will also sound horrible. Well, the preamp can be considered similar to a distortion effect...you want it BEFORE the reverb (or flanger, or delay, etc.). A Compressor must also be located BEFORE the preamp gain stage because it relies on a clean signal coming from the guitar. If you distort the signal going into a compressor, the effect will not work properly because the signal will already be somewhat compressed, so the compressor has trouble telling what the signal level should be.

Anyway, the bad news for you is that your ME-50 does not have the cabability of separating the pre and post gain effects. The rule of thumb for this situation is this...

If you want to use the distortion from the amp, the ME-50 should go in the effects loop.

If you want to use the distortion from the ME-50, hook it up like you have in the picture, and set your amp for a clean sound.

Did I confuse you even more?

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by Adwex

Jason,

The way LoKi described it is really the best way to think of the whole signal chain. Every amp has a preamp (or gain stage), and a power stage section. The effects loop provides a way to put "stuff" between the 2 stages...after the preamp and before the power amp.

Some effects are gain type effects (distortion, overdrive, EQ, Wah, compressor, etc.), some effects are time based, or modulation type effects (reverb, delay, chorus, flanger, etc.).

LoKi mentioned the issue of effect order...which one comes before or after another. Some effects will sound absolutely horrible if placed in a particular order. Since the preamp is where you get most of your distortion, I like to look at effect order as a question...Do I want to "reverb the distortion", or "distort the reverb"? The order in which I place the 2 will drastically affect the sound. Reverb placed before the preamp will sound horrible. Likewise, a distortion pedal after the reverb will also sound horrible. Well, the preamp can be considered similar to a distortion effect...you want it BEFORE the reverb (or flanger, or delay, etc.). A Compressor must also be located BEFORE the preamp gain stage because it relies on a clean signal coming from the guitar. If you distort the signal going into a compressor, the effect will not work properly because the signal will already be somewhat compressed, so the compressor has trouble telling what the signal level should be.

Anyway, the bad news for you is that your ME-50 does not have the cabability of separating the pre and post gain effects. The rule of thumb for this situation is this...

If you want to use the distortion from the amp, the ME-50 should go in the effects loop.

If you want to use the distortion from the ME-50, hook it up like you have in the picture, and set your amp for a clean sound.

Did I confuse you even more?

you know man, honestly...... you didn't!

i think i kinda got it.. that middle paragraph you wrote i'll keep in mind come time i get individual effects pedals.. but for now, all i got's the ME-50..

the traynor is admittedly not meant for the heavily distorted or overdriven stuff.. (maybe re-tubing it would help, but i don't wanna think about that right now ) so i think i'll go with the the 2nd option you wrote down: following the diagram.. .. i love the clean tones of the traynor.. honestly, i believe that's what it's meant for for the most part: clean tones... .. i'll just have to rely on the ME-50 for the distorted / overdriven stuff..

thanks for the help Adwex..

any other additional info/input is much appreciated

[MIDNIGHT]

just an additional question (refer to the diagram of the ME-50 above )

since i only have one amp, would i plug it into the right amp input or the left amp input where it says mono??? the owner's manual doesn't really make mention..

[Adwex]

Since you're not running in stereo, plug into the one that says mono.

If you like the amp's clean sound then you're ok. Set the preamp for a clean setting, hook up the ME-50 like the diagram, and use it for all effects, including distortion.

Do you have a way to record and post a clip?

[MIDNIGHT]

Originally Posted by Adwex

Since you're not running in stereo, plug into the one that says mono.

If you like the amp's clean sound then you're ok. Set the preamp for a clean setting, hook up the ME-50 like the diagram, and use it for all effects, including distortion.

Do you have a way to record and post a clip?

the only way is with my camera that doesn't have very good audio.. right now, i'm just gonna master my gear first, then when i feel i can make a good recording already, then i'll make one .. hopefully by then, i'll have a mic already so i'll be even more enthusiastic about recording .. i'll be filing my taxes soon, and me buying a mic will depend on how much i get back

thanks again Adwex!

guys believe me, once i get better (both at my gear and my playing ) and get a mic, i'll be making LOADS of recordings i don't quite feel like doing any recordings right now cuz i feel it won't do any justice..