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Unread 03-12-2012, 07:06 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markii_D View Post
Would it be possible to do a 10 or 8 watt SIBLY thing?
Here you go Mark:



Sibly 10w EL34 version (single-ended, cathode bias). You can also use KT66, KT77, 6L6, or 6V6 power tubes - Randy (builder and owner of Phaez) noted, "though a 6V6 will run fairly hot. No big deal though".
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Unread 03-12-2012, 10:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

That looks sweet! i think ill contact randy for more info. How should i contact him?
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Unread 03-12-2012, 10:53 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

Is it possible to make the amp chassis a bit less tall? kinda like scrunch it down?
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Unread 03-13-2012, 01:58 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

The thing about these 'what amp should I get' threads is that everyone is going to tell you to get the amp that they are currently playing - which may or may not be what you are looking for.

What I would suggest is that you go to a few different music stores, play a bunch of amps in your price range - research the ones you bond with the most - check out online reviews, there are tons of demos on youtube - and then decide for yourself which one best suits your needs.
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Unread 03-13-2012, 12:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markii_D View Post
That looks sweet! i think ill contact randy for more info. How should i contact him?
You can contact Randy at: allyq@cogeco.ca

If you haven't yet, read through the http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/squa...get-phaez.html thread to learn about more Phaez amps and options others have gone with.

For instance, on page 166, Alexb17 purchased a JTM 8 watt amp (you can see his Duophonic, Sibly/Blackface clips, earlier in this thread) - another option, especially if you are chasing the Beano tone. He said he will be posting a demo of this amp soon.

If you are planning to gig with this amp you may want to consider the JTM or Sibly 18 watt versions also (they use 2 EL84 power tubes). From the clips I have heard of the 18 watters they can achieve good bedroom level tones too - http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/squa...epth-demo.html.
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Unread 03-13-2012, 03:22 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

for 600-700 why not a fender blackface and pedals for drive...

seriously, my only complaint is I can't turn it up in the house... but even at low volumes it sounds better than anything else I've heard. it's been the only amp I've needed for 20 years... super clean sound that can take any OD/dirtbox

bassman, tremolux,bandmaster, showman, deluxe reverb, hell, you might get lucky and find a twin... ok, probably not, but there's a reason pre '70 amps are so revered...


http://www.dallasvintageguitars.com/...derbassman.htm you're welcome
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Last edited by Rhust; 03-13-2012 at 04:30 PM.
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Unread 03-14-2012, 12:37 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

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Originally Posted by Markii_D View Post
Hey guys, new member here.
I got a question that I think you might be able to help me with...
I've been playing the guitar on my transistor Marshall MG30 amp, and I want to move on to a tube amp because I think I am ready for it.
A sound that I would be striving for is like a Marshall classic rock tone 60's and 70's
Artists like AC/DC, Led Zep, and Early Clapton are my main influences tone-wise.

Anyways, if you got any suggestions on an amp that's under about 30W (Preferably head) that would be awesome!
I was playing through the same Marshall as you before I got my Handsome Devil head. Personally, for the price I don't think they can be beat. But that's just my opinion.
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Unread 03-14-2012, 08:33 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

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I was playing through the same Marshall as you before I got my Handsome Devil head. Personally, for the price I don't think they can be beat. But that's just my opinion.
+1 again on this.

My son came home for a couple of days, and last night he was playing my LP through the Handsome Devil and commented on how warm and beautiful it sounded compared to anything else he played through. He said the base tone is so smooth, and that he would want to get one when he get's and electric guitar again.

I mean, it is not a custom voiced amp, but the price on the Handsome Devil is not outrageous for a nice sounding tube amp that has a lot of options for some great tone. It handles Classic Rock very well, and with the money you save, you can add a few nice effects pedals to your arsenal.
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Unread 03-14-2012, 08:39 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

A used Orange TH30.
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Unread 03-14-2012, 09:11 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

Try a 15 watt Egnater Tweaker. I play a lot of the same music you do, and I really like it.
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Unread 03-14-2012, 09:41 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

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Try a 15 watt Egnater Tweaker. I play a lot of the same music you do, and I really like it.
I gotta say, I played one at GC the other day... way out of my price range for what I wanted, but VERY nice
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Unread 03-15-2012, 08:46 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

what the orange tiny terror?
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Unread 03-16-2012, 10:46 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

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Originally Posted by Markii_D View Post
Would it be possible to do a 10 or 8 watt SIBLY thing?
Maybe - you would have to ask Randy. He does have 8 and 10W Daisycutter amps, so I imagine he could do something similar with the SIBLY circuit (maybe a single EL-34?)

He's a bit busy right now from the posts I've read in the big Phaez thread, so you might have to wait a bit to get a response. However, he does eventually get back to you and will do his best to get you what you want and/or need. As most everyone who has bought one will tell you, it is worth the wait when you finally get the amp.

David

Edit - I see kazak already answered this question!
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Unread 03-21-2012, 12:24 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

Are there any Low watt Marshalls (or clones) i could find in a guitar shop or craigslist or something?
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Unread 03-21-2012, 03:17 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

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Are there any Low watt Marshalls (or clones) i could find in a guitar shop or craigslist or something?
of course... but my experience has been that guitar/pawn shops selling used name-brands usually over-price their shit... they think, oh, it's a marshall(gibson, etc), gotta be worth more money... when in truth, the new one on line is about the same scratch
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Unread 03-21-2012, 04:18 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

Here's my work-in-progress net info compilation regarding my awesome 2x12 CRATE, just in case I ever want to mod or need to service;
Sorry for the hard to read text, I guess I can't fix that now..., but it's worth the strain to read if you want a killer amp.

The late '90s, black tolex version, CRATE - Vintage Club 30, 1x12" has a great sound with tons of tonal control. Very similar to a Vox AC30 in tone. It has 2 channels, reverb, 1 12" speaker, is a loud and tone-friendly small combo unit even without any footpedal or fx pedals. It slays nearly any other amp, both in volume, clean tone, and outrageous gain. It has 2 channels, clean and overdrive, with separate reverb controls for each channel. It runs on 3 12ax7 pre-amp tubes and 4 EL84 tubes in Class-A mode, again much like Vox AC30 combos. The clean channel sparkles with width, breadth, and shimmer, with a lot of mid-range and bass available. This amp outshines a lot of other amps with the tone variations available. Many other amps, the Peavey Delta Blues, Laney VC30, Tech 21 Trademark 60, Vox Cambridge, come out a distant 2nd in comparison, and gain-wise the Crate absolutely blows them away. The Vintage Club series are top-notch amps at a fraction of the cost of others. Built like a Mack truck, the amp has a heavy speaker and heavy contruction. The chassis is bolted to the back panel, you must remove about 15 screws to get the chassis out to change tubes.
Used by Mark Knopfler, Joe Walsh, and are seen on Clapton's stage during Crossroads concerts.

Mods; the amp will benefit from an output transformer swap = greater dynamic response, clarity improvements, more headroom, better clipping characteristic.
Change out the stock Sovtek tubes, try Electro Harmonix 12ax7s in the 1st 2 preamp stages, or perhaps lower gain dual triodes like 12AT7, 12AY7, would help to control and round out the sound. Try them in the first 2 positions. The amp has a lot of gain, and could do OK with less. If it's still not 'thick' enough, maybe clip out C3, depending on the type of pickup used, single or humbucker. If not wanting to change the tone too much, can clip out C38, that will lower the gain slightly and smooth out the tone without affecting the frequency too much. RCA 6BQ5's for big 'bark'.
Try a JJ Tesla 12ax7 in the 3rd stage phase inverter, and Groove Tube EL84's for the power tubes (4). This makes a huge difference in the sound of the amp, and being Class-A*, no rebiasing is required, just swap tubes to obtain the gain and tone desired.
*the VC3112 is Class AB, not Class A.
VC30's are cathode biased = spongy, 50's are fixed biased = tighter, more immediate, dynamic response.
Tubes/circuit mods = gain and frequency response improvements and amp to pick "feel".
The lead channel may not clean up enough for some players. There is a voicing circuit in its signal path that has the effect of a relatively extreme high-boost shelving filter. Reduce the signal level early in the lead channel chain and defeat this voicing circuit. After, there is still high gain available, but now are able to get a nice Marshall-esque clean from the lead channel in addition to a range of overdrive levels all the way from spongy crunch to screaming sustain.
More tube swap options;
To greatly open up the lead channel:
R11 - change from 221k to 100k
C1 - remove
R12 - change from 2.74k to 1.5k
R59 - change from 470k to 242k
C11 - change from 470pf to .0068uf
Add 47pf ceramic cap between pins 1 & 2 of V2, improves high frequency stability, a smaller value may work as well.
Clean Channel
C40 - remove
Preamp Tubes - JJ 12AX7s in V1, V2, V4, Sovtek 12AX7 in V3.
Power tubes - GT EL84s

In the clean channel, there is a "bright" cap bypassing the volume pot. It's the equivalent to playing a Fender amp with the "Bright" switch on, and can be removed.
Replace power and standby switches with better-quality ITT parts, and relocate the main fuse from the circuit board to the rear of the chassis.
*the VC3112 is Class AB, not Class A.
The VC50 can only give 34-35 watts from a 4xEL84 output stage.
Speaker swaps will also make a big difference, swap with the frequency that matches the desired sound. Vintage 30 speakers are bright and nasty in the 1.6KHz range, a Celestion greenback is excellent, but may be a little short on bottom. Weber, ToneTubby make good replacements, but the best are EVM12L or a JBL 120.

There is an intermittent cutout/level drop, usually in the clean channel caused by a corroded footswitch jack, and it only happens if the footswitch is plugged in. If it happens on a gig, just plug in the footswitch and it will be fine. The long term fix: clean the switching contacts on the jack. The channel switching circuitry uses several optoisolator devices of the same sort that are used in tremolo circuits, and there is a little lag when you switch channels as a result of the turnoff time of these devices.

Cons; no preamp out, no external speaker out, no internal cooling fan. Plus, these amps sometimes have problems from the factory, w/junky jack sockets, bad solder joints, bad power and standby switches, grounding issues, or the switch on the top panel that changes from clean to overdrive, can eat tubes, and maybe other minor troubles that once addressed put these amps in top shape.

Improvements to the line; a resistor was changed to increase reliability when the black ones came out.

Manual;
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:3BcqH7HJ9MIJ:media.musicalplane t.com/pdf/CRA365.PDF+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESicPrHxW QThlv1vxuc28ECoKD9H3u30Mw2IwOofH6oSPH0wZFuXsN_aMbC TU4t2-9PEggYngwX2C280JjO-_hFDjAlPIe7_shv0a4KE_u3HE4w_zn1Lc0k7SGFTlahuwOMuMD ij&sig=AHIEtbQWJn4J7uJPasEjx7IRyq60sjfvtQ

Shematic - 5212/VC50. Pre-amp section, same as VC30;
http://blog.fillmorepedal.com/files/0/1/8/5/6/176212-165810/crate_vintage_club_50.pdf

http://schematicheaven.com/newamps/crate_vc3112_preamp.pdf

Mercury Magnetics can offer different choices for an upgrade OT. The ToneClone O20JM-L is cloned from the early Marshall 20 watt amp. It also used two EL84 tubes. It has 4-8-16 ohm secondary taps so it can be used with just about any speaker configuration. Or the ToneClone VXO-15A-LM. This OT is cloned from the vintage Vox AC15 amp that also used two EL84 tubes. It also has 4-8-16 ohm taps and regarded as one of the finest outputs available.

Obeid Khan designed the Crate Vintage Club series, now designs for Reason Amplifiers www.reasonamps.com
'' No doubt the Original VC amps (blonde and black) had their limitations, lot's of compromises needed to be made. The jacks at the time would oxidize and cause switch contact issues, pc boards were cheap single sided affairs, many parts were from Asia. I was put on the project to get the Belton reverb pans to sound good in our circuits, worked with Dr. Park extensively on his pans, trying to get high end response in them and get the decay time down to a medium level, the IC drive and recovery circuit, its a cost thing, plus that method of incorporating reverb into an amp is unique in that it does not alter the basic signal path architecture, so there's a compromise for the reverb to improve the basic sound. Additional stages in the signal path would have changed it entirely. The wave solder 9 pin socket was another joint development with Belton and look at how many are being used in hi-end amps today, and you guys are lucky to have the Chicago made OT in there - 94-268-01 that is a great sounding transformer. Don Sokolis at Electrical Windings cloned a tweed tremolux tranny for me. The power ratings, that's marketing for ya, but after all these years, you can still find them for dirt cheap and the issues can be easily solved. The only difference between the cream and black ones was a MF resistor in the screens instead of a wirewound. Maybe some component sourcing changes as purchasing would always be scouring the earth for a cheaper part, sometimes R&D would get a chance to comment, other times it just happened. But when you plug into that clean channel of an old VC3112 and it sings, bounces and glasses like an old Deluxe reverb, hard to justify NOT buying it for $250. The dirty channel was subject to many mods, even back then. One guy wants AC/DC, another wants Robben Ford, fiddle until it sounds right. That amp came about because "they" asked me why I didn't play a Crate, and I told them you don't make one that sounds right, so the challenge was put to me to design a Crate that I would play through, and I did.

Early VC PC boards flex during tube replacement due to the tube sockets being mounted directly to the paper thin circuit boards, care should be taken when replacing tubes.

VC3112s without tube-driven reverb = reduce the gain in the second stage (V2A) by about 6dB.

"I put an Amperex 12au7 in the 1st stage. Sounded great with P90s, but not with my Strat. So I changed v2 to a 12au7, tamed the volume problem on the clean channel; volume went from low to loud at 3 with no inbetween. Clean was still to bright tho. So I cliped the c40 cap, which is a treble bypass cap around the clean channel volume, and now it's about right. The result - clean channel now sounds great with a Strat and the volume knob works better, goes from mud to shimmer and is very usable, not just bright or brighter. The overdrive channel is much more controlable now with the 12au7's and can still dial up about as much gain as any rock/blues player would ever need."


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Unread 03-21-2012, 11:04 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: Good Options for a New Tube Amp? (Under 30 Watts)

That crate sounds better than I expected!

Im going to try to play some amps at the local Long and McQuade but i rarely see the Orange TT or Jet City amps ive studied...

Ive been thinking just a normal SIBLY would work, i kinda wanna make my own head cab as a summer project too
Thanks for all the help and I look forward to your ideas and advice!
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