Opinions Wanted

[El Raymundo]

Hi everyone,

I'm just going to admit straight up that I'm pretty much a raging ignoramus when it comes to amps. About all I know is I plug in my guitar, twiddle some knobs, and usually something shockingly far away from the sound I hear banging around inside my skull emerges from my amp.

This is, no doubt, partly because I'm not a very good guitar player.

But I think my amp is part of the problem, too.

Anyway, after many years of separation from six-string-slingerdom, I'm really working to get back into the groove and make a semi-decent player out of myself. I've been reading these forums quite a bit but I still have some questions regarding amps. So, with apologies in advance if this ground has been overly trod upon, I'd really love to hear your opinions and get some guidance about an amp purchase.

So here goes:

What I Like to Play: Led Zep, Jimi Hendrix, Led Zep, Stevie Ray Vaughan, classic rock, Led Zep and blues. (I know, I'm not very original, am I? ) I also play some clean stuff, but mostly I really love that good ol' Jimmy Page fatcrunchaliciousness.

Where I Play: In my house. It's a single-family, not attached, so no neighbors upstairs or stuck to either side. No plans to play gigs or live shows or anything like that. It's just me annoying my wife in my house.

My Guitar: I play a stock 2010 Les Paul Traditional. Love it love it love it.

Effects and Stuff: Not much more than a Cry Baby wah. No stomp boxes or pedals.

I think that's it. So far I'm leaning toward a tube amp in the 10-15 watt range. What I've been looking at and am impressed with so far are these two amps:

• Marshall Class5 5W 1x10 Tube Guitar Combo Amp
• Blackstar HT-5R Combo

Any thoughts or opinions? Any other amps I should look at, given what I outlined above? I'm open to anything. Tell me what ya think! And thanks!

[yawny]

Well, im not a certified amp expert, and I'm new to the forum, but I'll put my two cents in.

Low wattage tube amps like the Marshall and Blackstar are great for some low wattage crunch, but they break up really early. You're left with very very little clean headroom. If you aren't playing crunchy, you aren't playing loud.

You could probably get away with a little higher wattage tube amp in your situation. If you're really trying to be quiet (and have some money) you can buy an attenuator. But you could also just go with a smaller cabinet. People seem to forget that a 1x12 is gonna be a lot quieter than a 4x12 through the same amp.

For what you like playing, the clean headroom could be an issue, but if you're okay with the early breakup, I've heard that the Class5 is a great little tube head

I've got a Valve junior myself and, while a great tube amp for the price, it hardly has anything that I'd call clean. That's why I bought a Bassman .

Hope I've been some help.

[Tuya Customs]

Zep tone? Clean tone too?

Phaez SIBLY... Stands for Since I've Been Loving You. Fitting no?

Whats your budget?

[TWANG]

marshall class five . 400.00 innit?
blackstar that much or more.
so I'd say you're looking at 500.00 tops?

so.. first off, you'd be amazed at how many classic rock tunes you love were done on a fender tweed deluxe.
even lower watt amps than that are and have been used.. page/supro.

So I think you need to look at the 15 watt range, IF you want the louder clean headroom.

A modified vj, five watt, can do practice volume pretty nice.. I use mine fairly often.
But, I prefer my made by me tweed deluxe or my made by me marshall. or one of my other 18 watt amps for clean headroom.
I play pretty loud with the stereo cranked up.

so . without trying to sell anything, dear moderator!
I will explain what I use and how I use it and why.

First, I use my five watt vj when I want overdriven tones.
or lower volume clean.
the overdrive is easily loud enough for anything in your home.
you can gig with it pushed.

But, I do play some clean tunes too.
So for that I like my 18 watt head a vj conversion with two el84 and two 12ax7..
then I use pedals for the overdrive.
I have two.. one I modded for a lot of clean headroom, the other breaks up earlier.
this is the cleaner one


but, I love the tweed deluxe tone, it's a country rock hard rock wonder IMO.
that would be the combo with the silver grill in this pic



why I use that.. the tone is 6V6 and the circuitry is different.. it's really dynamic.. touch sensitive and has a sound I've known for many many years.

the gold grill amp is a marshall based amp, again with EL84 power tubes but it has
treble middle bass and gain and volume..
my fave is to use them as in the pic... on an ab/y switch.. so I can go back and forth.

the marshall based amp does clean loud and dirty loud.. or both lower volume as well... thanks to the gain volume combination.

The vj head converted to 18 watts would be like an orange tiny terror in performance..
very basis. tone and volume.. inputs are high and low.
why they get fivehundred bucks for that lunchbox and I can't get 325.00 for my head is beyond me!

(I compared in store, too!)

The tweed deluxe I would say is not your style, and the actual fenders in that model have tremolo and reverb and cost about a grand.

the marshall style combo I show above would probably be your best choice.
Because it does low or high volume cleans and dirt.
You can also see in the second pic vjs converted to EL34 power tubes, which put out in the 10 watt range.

These do have enough clean headroom for home use, and some gig with them, miced up, of course.
I put a 1/2 power switch in these so they are also good low or higher volume, but really, to get the tube into dirt it still has to get fairly loud.

So.. My vote for you is an amp in the 15 to 22 watt range.
better if it has some ability to get dirty at low volume.
I use my pedals anyway, I want you to know, even though my fave tone is tube cranked.. because it saves tube life and it's just easier when I practice to just stomp the changes I want.

Personally, I like to avoid bells and whistles in my builds. People like them though, so do give consideration to such as required by your taste.

If you can try an amp out in store.. pick a weekday.. fewer people around.. take your fave guitar.. and listen close to the amps sound without efx etc.. that's what you're goin got have to live with.

My bigger combo runs 550.00, the tweed is less.. and the 18 watts under that..
so you are going to find yourself paying in that range, though a bit more for the nameplate.. and even more if they put in a lot of switches etc.

You can find in this very forum people willing to build you an amp that will most likely be less money and better tone than a LOT of what is selling these days.

You can get a blackheart BH15 and it's pretty ok stock.. modded even better.
I have one on my shelf, in fact, I can't find time to get to.
The little blackheart five watt combo is not bad at all.
and not anywhere near blackstar or marshall inflation.
the vht special 6 gets very good reviews and like the blackhearts it's really designed to be modified.
So you can start smaller and improve clean headroom if not happy, and still spend less overall if you are smart about it when shopping.

or you can just go to 15W and up and not have to wait on what you want.

You have a good range of tunes there. but they manage to seem to my eye to be the overdrive type.. with a pedal for metal.. the efx vary quite a bit in what you mention so it seems to me that you wouldn't be happy at all with the dsp shit people seem to be using.
(limited ranges and compromised features)
so you'd be better off choosing pedals, like me!

It's late so I think I've said it. or just blathered. hope it was helpful.

[yawny]

Originally Posted by TWANG

marshall class five . 400.00 innit?
blackstar that much or more.
so I'd say you're looking at 500.00 tops?

so.. first off, you'd be amazed at how many classic rock tunes you love were done on a fender tweed deluxe.
even lower watt amps than that are and have been used.. page/supro.

So I think you need to look at the 15 watt range, IF you want the louder clean headroom.

A modified vj, five watt, can do practice volume pretty nice.. I use mine fairly often.
But, I prefer my made by me tweed deluxe or my made by me marshall. or one of my other 18 watt amps for clean headroom.
I play pretty loud with the stereo cranked up.

so . without trying to sell anything, dear moderator!
I will explain what I use and how I use it and why.

First, I use my five watt vj when I want overdriven tones.
or lower volume clean.
the overdrive is easily loud enough for anything in your home.
you can gig with it pushed.

But, I do play some clean tunes too.
So for that I like my 18 watt head a vj conversion with two el84 and two 12ax7..
then I use pedals for the overdrive.
I have two.. one I modded for a lot of clean headroom, the other breaks up earlier.
this is the cleaner one

nice use of the backwards valve junior enclosure. Cant say I've ever seen someone use them like that before

[hbucker]

For the styles you're talking about, Peavey Classic 30 or Classic 50 and maybe a pedal or two will do everything you need and a little more. And on the used market they are quite a value.

Look at other amps and play as many as you need to in order to find what you need. But by your description, you need look no further than the PV Classics.

[Big John]

Originally Posted by El Raymundo

...What I've been looking at and am impressed with so far are these two amps:

• Marshall Class5 5W 1x10 Tube Guitar Combo Amp
• Blackstar HT-5R Combo

Any thoughts or opinions?...

I auditioned both of these little guys this weekend at my local store, along with a few other 5w jobs. I liked the Blackstar way more than the Marshall. In fact, I liked it the best out of all the little amps I tried. It took a few minutes to tweak the lead channel's eq on the Blackstar, but the sweetspots are definitely there. I'd have bought it if I didn't use my amp funds elsewhere this weekend. That amp gets my vote for in-bedroom and grab-n-go.

[SexyGibson]

I have been thrilled with my 15 watt Fender Super Champ XD for playing at home. Great amp simulations and very useable effects. You would be doing yourself a diservice not to check it out.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yeah, for kicking around the home, practice, or at small gigs, an SCXD is a good, versatile, and affordable option. I know that when I got back into playing electric the most important thing to me in an amp was versatility.

Only later did I zero in on what it was I wanted. The lag gave me plenty of time to shop around, too.

[El Raymundo]

Hey, thanks for all the great, thoughtful responses. You've given me a lot to think about!

Originally Posted by yawny

Low wattage tube amps like the Marshall and Blackstar are great for some low wattage crunch, but they break up really early. You're left with very very little clean headroom. If you aren't playing crunchy, you aren't playing loud.

You could probably get away with a little higher wattage tube amp in your situation. If you're really trying to be quiet (and have some money) you can buy an attenuator. But you could also just go with a smaller cabinet.

For what you like playing, the clean headroom could be an issue, but if you're okay with the early breakup, I've heard that the Class5 is a great little tube head

I've got a Valve junior myself and, while a great tube amp for the price, it hardly has anything that I'd call clean. That's why I bought a Bassman .

So if I follow you, what you're saying is that the Class5 and the Blackstar start to distort at low volumes and that it might be pretty tough to play a clean tone through either one at middle to high volume. Did I get it right?

When you say I could probably go a little bigger in wattage, what are you think? Something like a 15-25W amp? I was thinking of buying a combo amp and not having to mess around with cabinets. But what the hell do I know?

Originally Posted by Tuya Customs

Zep tone? Clean tone too?

Phaez SIBLY... Stands for Since I've Been Loving You. Fitting no?

Whats your budget?

Budget is probably $500 - $750. But I've never heard of Phaez. I assume that's the amp maker? I love the amp name! What else do you know or can you share? It sounds like you're quite a fan of this amp.

Originally Posted by TWANG

marshall class five . 400.00 innit?
blackstar that much or more.
so I'd say you're looking at 500.00 tops?

so.. first off, you'd be amazed at how many classic rock tunes you love were done on a fender tweed deluxe.
even lower watt amps than that are and have been used.. page/supro.

So I think you need to look at the 15 watt range, IF you want the louder clean headroom.

<deleted very cool pics solely for the purpose of saving space - great pics, though!!!>

The tweed deluxe I would say is not your style, and the actual fenders in that model have tremolo and reverb and cost about a grand. The marshall style combo I show above would probably be your best choice. Because it does low or high volume cleans and dirt.

So.. My vote for you is an amp in the 15 to 22 watt range.
better if it has some ability to get dirty at low volume.
I use my pedals anyway, I want you to know, even though my fave tone is tube cranked.. because it saves tube life and it's just easier when I practice to just stomp the changes I want.

Personally, I like to avoid bells and whistles in my builds. People like them though, so do give consideration to such as required by your taste.

If you can try an amp out in store.. pick a weekday.. fewer people around.. take your fave guitar.. and listen close to the amps sound without efx etc.. that's what you're goin got have to live with.

You can find in this very forum people willing to build you an amp that will most likely be less money and better tone than a LOT of what is selling these days.

You can get a blackheart BH15 and it's pretty ok stock.. modded even better.
I have one on my shelf, in fact, I can't find time to get to.
The little blackheart five watt combo is not bad at all.
and not anywhere near blackstar or marshall inflation.
the vht special 6 gets very good reviews and like the blackhearts it's really designed to be modified.
So you can start smaller and improve clean headroom if not happy, and still spend less overall if you are smart about it when shopping.

or you can just go to 15W and up and not have to wait on what you want.

You have a good range of tunes there. but they manage to seem to my eye to be the overdrive type.. with a pedal for metal.. the efx vary quite a bit in what you mention so it seems to me that you wouldn't be happy at all with the dsp shit people seem to be using.
(limited ranges and compromised features)
so you'd be better off choosing pedals, like me!

It's late so I think I've said it. or just blathered. hope it was helpful.

Dude, I'm going to have to study your post. I didn't folllow everything the first time around and I'm sure I'll learn some things in the process of re-reading it.

The Class5 is $400 at Monolithic Nationwide Guitar Store, Inc. and the Blackstar HT-5R is $449, so they're in the same ballpark price-wise. As for what I'm looking to spend, I'd say anywhere from $500 to $750 or so. The one joy of selling out to The Man is being able to afford better gear.

I knew about Page and the Supro, but not about the Fender tweeds. In the case of Page, were the Marshall stacks used because he had to fill an auditorium with violin bow feedback, while the true "Page sound" came out of little amps used in the studio? If so, then I'm quite content to use a little amp. Although a stack sure looks sexy.

It sounds like you're echoing what yawny said - that if I want to be able to play clean at higher volumes then I should go with a slightly more powerful amp than the 5Ws I'm currently considering. Did I follow you right?

I agree with you in that I don't look for a lot of effects in the amp. I'm happy to plug straight in and perhaps one day buy a foot-switched effects unit for anything fancy I may want to do.

Now, what is DSP shit?

Originally Posted by hbucker

For the styles you're talking about, Peavey Classic 30 or Classic 50 and maybe a pedal or two will do everything you need and a little more. And on the used market they are quite a value.

Look at other amps and play as many as you need to in order to find what you need. But by your description, you need look no further than the PV Classics.

I'll check that out. I always thought Peavey's were more jazzy/country amps, but it's been a million years since I've heard one and I probably remember things wrong. Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by Big John

I auditioned both of these little guys this weekend at my local store, along with a few other 5w jobs. I liked the Blackstar way more than the Marshall. In fact, I liked it the best out of all the little amps I tried. It took a few minutes to tweak the lead channel's eq on the Blackstar, but the sweetspots are definitely there. I'd have bought it if I didn't use my amp funds elsewhere this weekend. That amp gets my vote for in-bedroom and grab-n-go.

Thanks for the review! Did you experience any of the problems playing clean at higher volumes that the other folks have mentioned?

Originally Posted by SexyGibson

I have been thrilled with my 15 watt Fender Super Champ XD for playing at home. Great amp simulations and very useable effects. You would be doing yourself a diservice not to check it out.

So two votes for Fenders. I'll add them to the list of amps to test. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Thumpalumpacus

Yeah, for kicking around the home, practice, or at small gigs, an SCXD is a good, versatile, and affordable option. I know that when I got back into playing electric the most imortant thing to me in an amp was versatility.

Only later did I zero in on what it was I wanted. The lag gave me plenty of time to shop around, too.

Did you find during the "lag period" that what you wanted was different in any whay than what you initially thought you were looking for?

[Thumpalumpacus]

Originally Posted by El Raymundo

Did you find during the "lag period" that what you wanted was different in any whay than what you initially thought you were looking for?

Not really ... I found I still loved a good, basic 6L6 architecture. But trying out the other basic buildstyles was beneficial for both helping me realize that, and finding information for when I step outside of my normal genres/styles.

I ended up buying a Peavey VK212, which is overpowered for homeplaying, but because I got back into gigging pretty quickly, that sort of power was necessary. I went through a few smaller amps (Epi Electar Tube 10, Tube Works 30w hybrid, and a SS Champ) for home use, but found that I really can't stand a small speaker/cab tone ... too boxy. The Tube Works was the best of the bunch and worked great for home use, and could do gigging work too. A stack is probably a bit more than you need but if you think you might be interested in gigging you might want to go with 30-40 watts to ensure clean headroom and sufficient power.

Good luck and happy hunting.

[yawny]

Gonna try to answer each of your responses one at a time the best i can, so bear with me.

So if I follow you, what you're saying is that the Class5 and the Blackstar start to distort at low volumes and that it might be pretty tough to play a clean tone through either one at middle to high volume. Did I get it right?

When you say I could probably go a little bigger in wattage, what are you think? Something like a 15-25W amp? I was thinking of buying a combo amp and not having to mess around with cabinets. But what the hell do I know?

Yes, the two low wattage amps (especially the Class5 since it's only a single channel, not as sure about the Blackstar) will tend to break up very early. My Valve Junior, which is also five watts, tends to start crunching at around 9 o' clock with hard chord hits and that's through a 2x12 with plenty of headroom.

So, yes. You've got it right. I would say you could sneak away with a fifteen watter if you get the right cab to go with it or combo. A lot of tose lower wattage amps will have half power switches, which allow you to get that crunch, albeit a less "open" version of it at a much lower volume. One amp that comes to mind is the Orange Tiny Terror. Its a 15 watter that has that classic british crunch for about $450. it still breaks up fairly early, but it has way more headroom that a 5w does. It also has a half power switch.
Also, you'll find that most tube amps are VERY responsive to rolling back on your volume knob and will clean up significantly when it's at 6 or 7 as opposed to 10.

Budget is probably $500 - $750. But I've never heard of Phaez. I assume that's the amp maker? I love the amp name! What else do you know or can you share? It sounds like you're quite a fan of this amp.

Dude, I'm going to have to study your post. I didn't folllow everything the first time around and I'm sure I'll learn some things in the process of re-reading it.

The Class5 is $400 at Monolithic Nationwide Guitar Store, Inc. and the Blackstar HT-5R is $449, so they're in the same ballpark price-wise. As for what I'm looking to spend, I'd say anywhere from $500 to $750 or so. The one joy of selling out to The Man is being able to afford better gear.

You're right in the range you need for price there, no need to shell out anything over $600-700 for what you want ( I think Phaez's [Phaezes? i dont know]are a little out of the range). There's no need for a big stack unless you want to piss off your wife (and neighbors for that matter).

I knew about Page and the Supro, but not about the Fender tweeds. In the case of Page, were the Marshall stacks used because he had to fill an auditorium with violin bow feedback, while the true "Page sound" came out of little amps used in the studio? If so, then I'm quite content to use a little amp. Although a stack sure looks sexy.

It sounds like you're echoing what yawny said - that if I want to be able to play clean at higher volumes then I should go with a slightly more powerful amp than the 5Ws I'm currently considering. Did I follow you right?

I agree with you in that I don't look for a lot of effects in the amp. I'm happy to plug straight in and perhaps one day buy a foot-switched effects unit for anything fancy I may want to do.

Now, what is DSP shit?

If you're not concerned about pedals then one of these little amps will do you fine. They tend to do one or two good sounds, but they do then really well. Also, don't worry about DSP (digital signal processing). it'll kinda destroy the point of getting a nice, warm, organic tube amp sound.

I'll check that out. I always thought Peavey's were more jazzy/country amps, but it's been a million years since I've heard one and I probably remember things wrong. Thanks for the tip!

I don't know much about Peavey's so I can't help you there.

So two votes for Fenders. I'll add them to the list of amps to test. Thanks!

One thing to note about Fenders. Their cleans are legendary, there isn't anything quite like a Fender clean. However, the most you can get out of most, not all, small fender tube amps is a nice little bit of crunch, often not the Page or Jimi sound, but closer to an SRV tone with that little bit of sweet overdrive. Again, not an expert on low watt Fenders, if someone can prove me wrong then they can have at it.

Did you find during the "lag period" that what you wanted was different in any whay than what you initially thought you were looking for?

Lastly, as far as myself, when i first got into guitar several years ago, my musical tastes, at least as far as what i was playing, were entirely different. Two years later when i picked up my guitar again, I found that my tastes had changed and i started to work on crafting my own tone, as opposed to emulating others, as i finally knew how I wanted to sound.

Hope I've helped!

[Ed Zeppeli]

Oh, you need a Tiny Terror my friend.

[yawny]

Originally Posted by Ed Zeppeli

Oh, you need a Tiny Terror my friend.

It's got the potential to solve all of his amp woes.

Plus it comes as a combo too. but I'm personally a head-cab guy.

[Ed Zeppeli]

Originally Posted by yawny

It's got the potential to solve all of his amp woes.

Plus it comes as a combo too. but I'm personally a head-cab guy.

I'm not sure what they're going for down there but wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't be had on Craigslist for $250 or so.

I like the separate cabs too.

versatile.

[yawny]

Originally Posted by Ed Zeppeli

I'm not sure what they're going for down there but wouldn't be surprised if they couldn't be had on Craigslist for $250 or so.

I like the separate cabs too.

versatile.

My only question would be whether it has enough clean headroom. When i've dealt with the Tiny Terrors they seem to break up at low volumes, but it could just be me.

That can always be rectified by buying a bigger cabinet, of course.

[Ed Zeppeli]

No it doesn't have clean headroom, but it fits his bill 90 percent for the tones he wants.

[yawny]

Originally Posted by Ed Zeppeli

No it doesn't have clean headroom, but it fits his bill 90 percent for the tones he wants.

But clean headroom is important, especially for Zeppelin and SRV. Not so much for Jimi, obviously. But Page had that classic Marshall clean on tap when he needed it, and that was one of the big things that drove me away from the TT. I loved the amp's sound, but it didn't have a "real" clean for me. The Dual Terror helps a little bit, and that's why i'd prefer it, but it's out of the ballpark of the OP's price range.

[Ed Zeppeli]

I also have a Mesa TA-15 which has more clean headroom than the TT. It does a pretty decent British rock as well.

I haven't tried enough other cheaper amps to know of one that does much more than that.

[LesterNtele]

I'm thinking about his post and a couple of things stood out:

#1 No experience with tweaking to get tone. That lets out the SCXD. Maybe too many options (but it's a killer amp)
#2 Volume concern. The Class 5 works best at full volume using the guitar vol to adjust gain, but its still a loud amp when higher gain is needed.
#3 He has a LP Trad. Apparently, he's got some money.

So I'm thinkin' he wants a very simple amp. Low volume and the Marshall tone.
The Classic 30 may be an OK option, though it needs some modification (speaker/tubes) With a used amp & mods, he may be looking at $450.00
This might be out of left field, but the Marshall DSL 2000 (50 watt) has great tone even at lower volumes. I have the 100 watt version and it is killer at low volume. Used at maybe $400.00 plus he'll need a cab. But if you can afford a LP Trad.....

A Les Paul and a Marshall is a match made in heaven.

[TWANG]

Lots of players used small amps in studio.. an exception was hendrix who often used huge loud amps.. but many players chose the smaller amps.. big tone, and no earth shaking ear breaking volume.. easy for engineers, too.

I will say this because I have to.
That gold grill marshall in my post will flat out blow an orange tiny terror away in all aspects. gain down volume up.. plenty of clean headroom.. and gain up.. blues to rockin mad.
I have to say that because it ticks me off so much that I could turn out an amp that good and they get 500.00 for that tin bucket.
Maybe you'll find a head on craigs for 250.. but in GC and other stores they always jack the price back up to 400 used.


In fact, the tweed deluxe is typically touted as THE blues amp.. but I played with a guy for years using a fender deluxe reverb and we played everything from country to rock to hard rock with that thing and it totally is toneful. that's the silver grilled amp.
Those things are different.. 3 is all the cleans you get from mine. after 3 on volume it's all dirt and more dirt.
But it's ON even when he volume is off.. you can hear it. it's made that way so don't think 3 isn't clean headroom.

DSP is digital effects. and yes the scxd's get good reviews. To my ears they are good, but not great tone amps. And I know I'd never be able to stand much of the efx.
I've forgotten but I think they do it pretty much the same way as most.. you choose an effect then crank a dial for how much of the preset character of that particular effect.
so there isn't much to choose from. nice practice amp. not a great amp in general.

I know that'll tick some off, but there you are. opinions are like....
never mind.

best of luck. choose slowly. consider everything.. !
TWANG